Falklands Sea Harrier

[MarcV]

Hi all,

 

I'm building the 1/48th Kinetic Sea Harrier in the early Falklands grey (EDSG) on white scheme.

 

Can anyone help out as to which stores were typical on runs in this conflict - air to air and air to ground.

 

Kinetic has a bunch of stores such as Matras (I think) and Sparrows which I guess are anachronistic (finally used that word in a sentence). I'm curious as to the regular fit out - couple of sidewinders, fuel tanks and cannon I would hazard.

 

All help appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

 

[exdraken]

air-air: cannons, 2x Aim-9L/M Sidewinders

 

air to ground : add  1000lb bomb to the center line

 

I think that's it!

 

 

[Muzz]

What Werner says, although the centre line 1000ld’er was also carried on many CAP missions, the aircraft would take off and fling it towards Stanley airfield to harass the enemy and keep them on their toes before heading off on CAP.

 

If your looking to portray an aircraft actually involved in the conflict then the EDSG over white was never worn with the white being painted over on the journey south. I maybe picked you up wrong and this is what you mean by EDSG over white as in painted over white.

 

Muzz

 

 

[Mr T]

As Muzz said, by the time the Sea Harriers reached the Falklands, the undersides were all repainted in EDSG. Depending on which carrier they were on, some were hand painted and some were sprayed and the roundels were changed as well to  remove the white portion. Some replacement aircraft were sent straight of the production line and these were finished in  Medium Sea Grey upper surfaces and Barley Grey undersides with pale blue and pink roundels. Not near my BARG book on the Falklands Air War that has a lot of the details in. 

[tweeky]

I think the BL755 cluster bombs were dropped by the Sea Harriers.

As for "off the production line" comment I think the FAA sea harriers were all in service by the out break of the war. I was on a course at RAF St Athan in South Wales, this at the time was where the Harrier fleet came for schedule servicing, The Sea harriers were leaving at a regular intervals some in the ESDG/White scheme but later on in an over lighter grey scheme.

[Seahawk]

If, on the other hand, you do really want the very attractive pre-Falklands Extra Dark Sea Grey/White finish, the most likely weapons fit would be  2 gun pods, 2 small tanks and 2 AIM-9G Sidewinders (the ones with triangular forward fins).  Remember that the primary role for the Sea Harrier as first envisaged was to knock down Soviet shadower and missile carrier aircraft before they could become a risk to friendly shipping.

[NG899]

Hi Marc,

 

The Kinetic kit's ordnance is: 190-gallon tanks (7A), 100-gallon tanks (7B*), AIM-120 AMRAAMs (7C-D), Sea Eagles (7E), AIM-9L Sidewinders (8F*-G), ADEN gun pods (8H*-I*), Rocket Pods (8J) and BL755 Cluster Bomb (8K) units included. The rocket pods and CBUs are a mess. Of the others, a Sea Harrier FRS.1 in the first half of 1982 would have used the items marked *, with the caveats detailed below. The single-mounted 9Ls are useable from May 1982 onwards. The gun pods are poorly detailed and can be improved as they miss a lot of surface details. All the other weaponry is left over from the previous Sea Harrier FA.2 kit.

 

Before reading further, the best advice I can give you is to think which Squadron markings you wish to use and then decide which side number and serial combination you wish to use. Once you have done that... Right, 1982 here we come!

 

Before April 1982, the SHARs were in the EDSG/W scheme with full squadron markings, e.g. schemes 1-3 in the kit. They usually but not always carried gun pods. When they did not have gun pods fitted then they would have had the strakes fitted (E22) as lift improvement devices for when hovering. The 100-gallon tanks (stencils always on port side only!) would be carried on the inner pylons and, if carrying Sidewinders, these would have been AIM-9Gs on the outer pylons; not the 9Ls in the kit. 9Gs had white bodies and the triangular front fins, Oh, and the intake interiors would have been EDSG overall, not white as seen on many completed models! Centre line pylon rarely fitted.

 

On the journey south, the white undersides were overpainted with EDSG using a 4" brush on Hermes 800 and 899 NAS FRS1s as there air-con in the hangars could not cope with sprayed paint. The white parts of the roundels were overpainted roundel blue, though ZA193 kept R/W/B under-wing roundels. On Invincible the 801 and 899 SHARs were sprayed - better air-con! Whichever, the once white undersides being painted over white were a bit lighter than the upper surfaces. Schemes 4-5. The Medium Sea Grey and Barley Grey SHARs joined the carriers in mid-May.

 

A few AIM-9Ls were on the carriers and more were air-dropped to the carriers. Once the fighting began the 9Ls were preferred over the 9G as they enabled head-on shots to be made; AIM-9Gs could only be used for attacks from behind or the side. 9Ls had double-delta front fins and their bodies were US Ghost Grey in colour. On the journey south, overall EDSG SHARs on training flights or anti-shadowing aircraft sorties are often seen with AIM-9Gs fitted. That said, Lt Simon Hargreaves had two AIM-9Ls fitted when intercepting Argentinean Boeing 707s recce aircraft; he was flying XZ460/26 which had an odd DSG patch on the intakes on both sides (scheme 4 top).

 

From 1st May, 1,000lb free-fall bombs with the Mk.117 free-fall or Mk.114 retard tail fitted were used, some were fitted with the Mk.117-tailed boys had an extended air-burst fuse fitted to he nose. BL755 Cluster Bomb Units were also used during the war. ResKit do very good resin examples of all of these. The aircraft in the 1st May attack on Port Stanley and Goose Green airfields carried a mix of ordnance - I can provide lists of which carried what and was flown by whom. One SHAR FRS.1 ZA191/18 did carry a 1,000lb with LGB nose fitted one on occasion, relying on a Harrier GR3 to try and mark the target... it didn't work. As is mentioned above, aircraft from both carriers departing for Combat Air Patrol after 1 May often carried not just AIM-9Ls but a 1,000lb bomb with a the Mk.117 tail fitted to 'toss-bomb' from distance onto the airfield at Port Stanley as a nuisance factor.

 

During the War, a few SHARs from Invincible did carry out Lepus flare drops. I believe a single flare was carried on the port outer pylon, with an AIM-9L being carried on the starboard outer pylon; if two Lepus flares were carried individually on the outer pylons. 

 

The FRS.1 could have used the 2-inch RN rocket pods which the GR.3s on Hermes had to use - their electrics were insulated unlike the RAF's GR.3's usual Matra 155 rocket pods - but, as far as I know, they did not use these during the conflict or on exercise until 1983; they would have been carried on the outer pylons. ResKit also do good 2-inch rocket pods.

 

I hope that helps. If you need more information and some ideas to improve the Kinetic kit, please PM me with your direct email and I'll wing some things over to you.

 

Good luck, have fun!

 

Nick

Edited July 16, 2020 by NG899

[Selwyn]

4 hours ago, NG899 said:

Hi Marc,

 

The Kinetic kit's ordnance is: 190-gallon tanks (7A), 100-gallon tanks (7B*), AIM-120 AMRAAMs (7C-D), Sea Eagles (7E), AIM-9L Sidewinders (8F*-G), ADEN gun pods (8H*-I*), Rocket Pods (8J) and BL755 Cluster Bomb (8K) units included. The rocket pods and CBUs are a mess. Of the others, a Sea Harrier FRS.1 in the first half of 1982 would have used the items marked *, with the caveats detailed below. The single-mounted 9Ls are useable from May 1982 onwards. The gun pods are poorly detailed and can be improved as they miss a lot of surface details. All the other weaponry is left over from the previous Sea Harrier FA.2 kit.

 

Before reading further, the best advice I can give you is to think which Squadron markings you wish to use and then decide which side number and serial combination you wish to use. Once you have done that... Right, 1982 here we come!

 

Before April 1982, the SHARs were in the EDSG/W scheme with full squadron markings, e.g. schemes 1-3 in the kit. They usually but not always carried gun pods. When they did not have gun pods fitted then they would have had the strakes fitted (E22) as lift improvement devices for when hovering. The 100-gallon tanks (stencils always on port side only!) would be carried on the inner pylons and, if carrying Sidewinders, these would have been AIM-9Gs on the outer pylons; not the 9Ls in the kit. 9Gs had white bodies and the triangular front fins, Oh, and the intake interiors would have been EDSG overall, not white as seen on many completed models! Centre line pylon rarely fitted.

 

On the journey south, the white undersides were overpainted with EDSG using a 4" brush on Hermes 800 and 899 NAS FRS1s as there air-con in the hangars could not cope with sprayed paint. The white parts of the roundels were overpainted roundel blue, though ZA193 kept R/W/B under-wing roundels. On Invincible the 801 and 899 SHARs were sprayed - better air-con! Whichever, the once white undersides being painted over white were a bit lighter than the upper surfaces. Schemes 4-5. The Medium Sea Grey and Barley Grey SHARs joined the carriers in mid-May.

 

A few AIM-9Ls were on the carriers and more were air-dropped to the carriers. Once the fighting began the 9Ls were preferred over the 9G as they enabled head-on shots to be made; AIM-9Gs could only be used for attacks from behind or the side. 9Ls had double-delta front fins and their bodies were US Ghost Grey in colour. On the journey south, overall EDSG SHARs on training flights or anti-shadowing aircraft sorties are often seen with AIM-9Gs fitted. That said, Lt Simon Hargreaves had two AIM-9Ls fitted when intercepting Argentinean Boeing 707s recce aircraft; he was flying XZ460/26 which had an odd DSG patch on the intakes on both sides (scheme 4 top).

 

From 1st May, 1,000lb free-fall bombs with the Mk.117 free-fall or Mk.114 retard tail fitted were used, some were fitted with the Mk.117-tailed boys had an extended air-burst fuse fitted to he nose. BL755 Cluster Bomb Units were also used during the war. ResKit do very good resin examples of all of these. The aircraft in the 1st May attack on Port Stanley and Goose Green airfields carried a mix of ordnance - I can provide lists of which carried what and was flown by whom. One SHAR FRS.1 ZA191/18 did carry a 1,000lb with LGB nose fitted one on occasion, relying on a Harrier GR3 to try and mark the target... it didn't work. As is mentioned above, aircraft from both carriers departing for Combat Air Patrol after 1 May often carried not just AIM-9Ls but a 1,000lb bomb with a the Mk.117 tail fitted to 'toss-bomb' from distance onto the airfield at Port Stanley as a nuisance factor.

 

During the War, a few SHARs from Invincible did carry out Lepus flare drops. I believe a single flare was carried on the port outer pylon, with an AIM-9L being carried on the starboard outer pylon; if two Lepus flares were carried individually on the outer pylons. 

 

The FRS.1 could have used the 2-inch RN rocket pods which the GR.3s on Hermes had to use - their electrics were insulated unlike the RAF's GR.3's usual Matra 155 rocket pods - but, as far as I know, they did not use these during the conflict or on exercise until 1983; they would have been carried on the outer pylons. ResKit also do good 2-inch rocket pods.

 

I hope that helps. If you need more information and some ideas to improve the Kinetic kit, please PM me with your direct email and I'll wing some things over to you.

 

Good luck, have fun!

 

Nick

1,000lb free-fall bombs with the Mk.117 free-fall or Mk.114 retard tail fitted 

Wrong way round! 114 is the free fall, 117 is the retard tail.

 

their electrics were insulated unlike the RAF's GR.3's usual Matra 155 rocket pods.

 It was nothing to do with insulation, it was about electro magnetic resistance, The 155 pod had insufficient EMC protection  for use on ships, so potentially the power from the ships radar systems could possibly induce a current in the pod wiring and fire a rocket on the deck.

You get a similar effect when you use a mobile phone too near a TV or computer , and get  that clicking inteference noise 

Selwyn

[NG899]

Thanks for the clarifications Selwyn. Yesterday was a long day and I just plain got them back to front Or oversimplified things! Doh.

[TonyOD]

This is amazing stuff. I have a Sea Harrier  the horizon And it’s very useful. Thanks @NG899.

[Selwyn]

2 hours ago, NG899 said:

Thanks for the clarifications Selwyn. Yesterday was a long day and I just plain got them back to front Or oversimplified things! Doh.

I will let you off just this once!

 

Selwyn

[NG899]

Phew! Thanks Selwyn!

 

The Lepus flare info came from email discussions with Cdr Tim Gedge while helping Rowland White out with his new Harrier 809 book. A few years ago I asked 801's SENGO from 1982 about the sorties with flares described in 'Sharkey' Ward's book. Unfortunately, before he could finish his answer he got purloined by man old friend wanting to buy him drinks and the conversation was left hanging. At least a Lepus is an easy scratch build - in 48th scale: a 1.6" (41mm) length of 0.17" (4.2mm) rod, with 10-thou (0.254mm) plasticard fins. 

 

Cheers

Nick

Edited July 17, 2020 by NG899

[MarcV]

On 7/15/2020 at 7:50 PM, Muzz said:

What Werner says, although the centre line 1000ld’er was also carried on many CAP missions, the aircraft would take off and fling it towards Stanley airfield to harass the enemy and keep them on their toes before heading off on CAP.

 

If your looking to portray an aircraft actually involved in the conflict then the EDSG over white was never worn with the white being painted over on the journey south. I maybe picked you up wrong and this is what you mean by EDSG over white as in painted over white.

 

Muzz

 

 

Thanks Muzz,

 

That's indeed what I meant.

[MarcV]

On 7/16/2020 at 3:22 PM, Seahawk said:

If, on the other hand, you do really want the very attractive pre-Falklands Extra Dark Sea Grey/White finish, the most likely weapons fit would be  2 gun pods, 2 small tanks and 2 AIM-9G Sidewinders (the ones with triangular forward fins).  Remember that the primary role for the Sea Harrier as first envisaged was to knock down Soviet shadower and missile carrier aircraft before they could become a risk to friendly shipping.

Thank you SeaHawk, I will indeed go for the pre-Falklands Grey / White scheme. The typical stores you mention is what I plan to do with possibly a bomb on the centreline for good measure.

[MarcV]

On 7/16/2020 at 6:41 PM, NG899 said:

Hi Marc,

 

The Kinetic kit's ordnance is: 190-gallon tanks (7A), 100-gallon tanks (7B*), AIM-120 AMRAAMs (7C-D), Sea Eagles (7E), AIM-9L Sidewinders (8F*-G), ADEN gun pods (8H*-I*), Rocket Pods (8J) and BL755 Cluster Bomb (8K) units included. The rocket pods and CBUs are a mess. Of the others, a Sea Harrier FRS.1 in the first half of 1982 would have used the items marked *, with the caveats detailed below. The single-mounted 9Ls are useable from May 1982 onwards. The gun pods are poorly detailed and can be improved as they miss a lot of surface details. All the other weaponry is left over from the previous Sea Harrier FA.2 kit.

 

Before reading further, the best advice I can give you is to think which Squadron markings you wish to use and then decide which side number and serial combination you wish to use. Once you have done that... Right, 1982 here we come!

 

Before April 1982, the SHARs were in the EDSG/W scheme with full squadron markings, e.g. schemes 1-3 in the kit. They usually but not always carried gun pods. When they did not have gun pods fitted then they would have had the strakes fitted (E22) as lift improvement devices for when hovering. The 100-gallon tanks (stencils always on port side only!) would be carried on the inner pylons and, if carrying Sidewinders, these would have been AIM-9Gs on the outer pylons; not the 9Ls in the kit. 9Gs had white bodies and the triangular front fins, Oh, and the intake interiors would have been EDSG overall, not white as seen on many completed models! Centre line pylon rarely fitted.

 

On the journey south, the white undersides were overpainted with EDSG using a 4" brush on Hermes 800 and 899 NAS FRS1s as there air-con in the hangars could not cope with sprayed paint. The white parts of the roundels were overpainted roundel blue, though ZA193 kept R/W/B under-wing roundels. On Invincible the 801 and 899 SHARs were sprayed - better air-con! Whichever, the once white undersides being painted over white were a bit lighter than the upper surfaces. Schemes 4-5. The Medium Sea Grey and Barley Grey SHARs joined the carriers in mid-May.

 

A few AIM-9Ls were on the carriers and more were air-dropped to the carriers. Once the fighting began the 9Ls were preferred over the 9G as they enabled head-on shots to be made; AIM-9Gs could only be used for attacks from behind or the side. 9Ls had double-delta front fins and their bodies were US Ghost Grey in colour. On the journey south, overall EDSG SHARs on training flights or anti-shadowing aircraft sorties are often seen with AIM-9Gs fitted. That said, Lt Simon Hargreaves had two AIM-9Ls fitted when intercepting Argentinean Boeing 707s recce aircraft; he was flying XZ460/26 which had an odd DSG patch on the intakes on both sides (scheme 4 top).

 

From 1st May, 1,000lb free-fall bombs with the Mk.117 free-fall or Mk.114 retard tail fitted were used, some were fitted with the Mk.117-tailed boys had an extended air-burst fuse fitted to he nose. BL755 Cluster Bomb Units were also used during the war. ResKit do very good resin examples of all of these. The aircraft in the 1st May attack on Port Stanley and Goose Green airfields carried a mix of ordnance - I can provide lists of which carried what and was flown by whom. One SHAR FRS.1 ZA191/18 did carry a 1,000lb with LGB nose fitted one on occasion, relying on a Harrier GR3 to try and mark the target... it didn't work. As is mentioned above, aircraft from both carriers departing for Combat Air Patrol after 1 May often carried not just AIM-9Ls but a 1,000lb bomb with a the Mk.117 tail fitted to 'toss-bomb' from distance onto the airfield at Port Stanley as a nuisance factor.

 

During the War, a few SHARs from Invincible did carry out Lepus flare drops. I believe a single flare was carried on the port outer pylon, with an AIM-9L being carried on the starboard outer pylon; if two Lepus flares were carried individually on the outer pylons. 

 

The FRS.1 could have used the 2-inch RN rocket pods which the GR.3s on Hermes had to use - their electrics were insulated unlike the RAF's GR.3's usual Matra 155 rocket pods - but, as far as I know, they did not use these during the conflict or on exercise until 1983; they would have been carried on the outer pylons. ResKit also do good 2-inch rocket pods.

 

I hope that helps. If you need more information and some ideas to improve the Kinetic kit, please PM me with your direct email and I'll wing some things over to you.

 

Good luck, have fun!

 

Nick

Nick,

 

Thanks for that - regarding schemes and stores and timeline I think I have what I need.

 

Any tips on improving the kit would however be much appreciated. Panel lines are very vague in places so I've been doing a fair bit of (re)scribing and I've got the Eduard Mk10A bang seat. O yeah, and I improved the look of the IP somewhat by adding decals.

 

Marc.

[NG899]

Personal Message me with your direct email address and I’ll send you what you need. Which scheme / aircraft have you decided upon? Let me know and I’ll dig out photos to help you.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[Paramedic]

One reason I love this forum, people like you guys popping in with your own personal experience or close, second hand ones. Great stuff!

Probably everybody knows but.. Sea Harrier over the Falklands and Hostole Skies by Ward and Morgan are "must" reads of course. Giving someehwat different but interesting views.

[One 48]

Great topic, have the 1/48 Kinetic Sea Harrier kit and want to do it right in memory of those that served there and also those that flew the SHARS's in that conflict.

[NG899]

One 48 - When you're ready to start your kit, PM me with any questions you may have and I'll send you some things to help you with your SHAR kit to help you 'do it right'.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[MarcV]

Definitely contact Nick - he really helped me out with getting the details right.

 

Haven't finished my Kinetic kit yet, it does take some work (which I like) but Nick's material will certainly push you in the right direction.

 

I'm using Gunze DSG - I recommend mixing that 50 / 50 with gloss white, although opinions on that score will vary.

 

Marc.

[exdraken]

15 hours ago, NG899 said:

One 48 - When you're ready to start your kit, PM me with any questions you may have and I'll send you some things to help you with your SHAR kit to help you 'do it right'.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

Care to share here as well?

That would be great!!

Thanks

 

[Paramedic]

Agreed! I think I got that a couple of years ago but lost my HDD since.. Forgot about it.

[NG899]

Exdraken - Sharing several 80+ page pdfs and other items on this site is not possible. Or have I missed something?!

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, NG899 said:

Sharing several 80+ page pdfs and other items on this site is not possible. Or have I missed something?!

Hi Nick

not directly, but if you upload the pdf somewhere, like Dropbox,  or Google Drive, for example, and put in the link, you can.

If you don't just want this made publicly available,  then you can still put them online somewhere, and just ask members to PM you for the link.

 

HTH

[NG899]

Thanks Troy. I have thought of those options but as, to date, people’s questions have focused on specific aircraft, squadrons or details, I prefer to answer their questions individually. Yes, it takes me more time but they get the answers they need.
 

Equally, as many of the documents have been written for and with the help of members of the IPMS(UK)’s Harrier SIG, I have to balance that in the mix.
 

Like Battle if Britain Spitfires and Hurricanes, Harriers are much more complex beasts than one realises until you get into them. 80%+ of folks probably still equate the various marks of UK Harriers being due to their different nose and fin shapes.
 

So PM me with what you need to know and an email address and I’ll get back to you.

 

Cheerio

 

Nick

Edited October 4, 2020 by NG899