B-26K Counter Invader

[Julien]

Anyone heard of any plans for a K conversion for the 1/48 ICM Kit?

 

Julien

[71chally]

I'm quietly hoping, and waiting, for ICM to release it as a K.

[72modeler]

On 7/14/2020 at 11:18 AM, Julien said:

Anyone heard of any plans for a K conversion for the 1/48 ICM Kit?

 

Not my scale, but you can do this, Julien. See the attached video of the only restored example flying- in my home state, natcherly, for excellent modeling details. Converting the ICM A-26B is doable, but expensive, as to do it right, you're going to need to rob some 1/48 kits/aftermarket for parts and do some scratchbuilding- for starters you will need:

 

two R-2800 C-series engines with the correct magnetos

two Fletcher tip tanks from an F-80 or other suitable kit/aftermarket source

lots of pylons and stores from appropriate airplane kits or weapon sets- might even scratchbuild the pylons

standard A-26 props were 12' 7" in diameter and the A-26A/B-26K props were clipped- IIRC about 5", but not sure for certain if that amount is correct

scratchbuild a larger chord rudder with vortex generators on the RH side of the fin arranged vertically in front of the rudder

remove both gun turrets

scratchbuild new carburetor intakes

modify the kit or aftermarket mainwheels to resemble the KC-135A wheels fitted, which were stronger and allowed for bigger brakes- note the new hub spoke pattern compared to WW2/Korean War aircraft

add appropriate antennas and cockpit details- use the video for details.

add gunner's compartment side window

 

I've not seen the ICM kit in person, so I have no idea if either release has been engineered to do a B-26K at some point, but I doubt they will do a K; you might try contacting Mike West at Lone Star Hobbies to see if he would do a conversion- this might depend upon how well the ICM kits sell. Worth a shot, as it is a very nasty-looking Invader! (Don't be too bummed out-  Italeri got so many features wrong on their so-called 1/72 B-26K, it would take about the same amount of scratchbuilding and/or aftermarket parts!) Where's 'Bondo' Phil Brandt when we really need him?

Mike

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqKbjgRrXsM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMBlyUjQ6eY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjaZ0XSEFWc

 

 

Maybe you could see if Mike M aka @Space Ranger could measure the props for you, as 'Special Kay' is home-based very close to where he lives, the lucky dog!

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by 72modeler
added links

[Space Ranger]

9 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Maybe you could see if Mike M aka @Space Ranger could measure the props for you, as 'Special Kay' is home-based very close to where he lives, the lucky dog!

 

It's about an hour's drive from where I live, which is "very close" by Texas standards. And it's a museum I haven't visited, even though I've lived in the area now for 15 years! I must get over there, but I don't know when that will be, given the current pandemic.

[Julien]

11 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Not my scale, but you can do this, Julien. See the attached video of the only restored example flying- in my home state, natcherly, for excellent modeling details. Converting the ICM A-26B is doable, but expensive, as to do it right, you're going to need to rob some 1/48 kits/aftermarket for parts and do some scratchbuilding- for starters you will need:

 

 

 

I've not seen the ICM kit in person, so I have no idea if either release has been engineered to do a B-26K at some point,

 

 

I see its a lot of work, kind of why im hoping someone does the conversion.

 

Not the same as in person but the ICM kit looks like this;

 

 

[71chally]

14 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

...but I doubt they will do a K

What makes you say that?   I think there are a few people hoping (and again, waiting) for this version from them.

 

Would the Cutting Edge conversion set for the Monogram kit work?

 

 

[72modeler]

8 minutes ago, 71chally said:

What makes you say that?   I think there are a few people hoping (and again, waiting) for this version from them.

 

Would the Cutting Edge conversion set for the Monogram kit work?

 

 

I'm just guessing because they only built forty examples, and they were used by only one air force in one war and in one scheme, the likelihood of doing the tooling to make a B-26K might not make much sense, business-wise; if they have planned for this version, I would think it would be apparent by examining the way the current two releases have been engineered. Don't get me wrong, '71' I sincerely hope the 1/48 modelers get either a dedicated kit or an aftermarket conversion set, I just don't think that's going to happen- hoping I'm wrong, you understand. Did Cutting Edge do a B-26K conversion in 1/48? I'm not very well-versed on 1/48 scale kits and aftermarket sets. (This just in- found an article on this set that might help @Julien- see the link-looks like the way to go, if you can find one and it doesn't go for crazy money!) Thanks for your post, '71!'

Mike

 

https://modelingmadness.com/others/detailsets/mesnerce48039.htm

[71chally]

Personally speaking I think the K will be very popular, yes there were a limited number converted but they are well known and popular aircraft, probably due to breathing new life into an old design and then their use in Vietnam.  On top of that they look really cool!

I would go as far as to say that I think a K boxing would be more popular than a B or C, the right boxart would help of course.

 

Looking at the sprues it looks to me like a K could come from this kit line, the wheels, rudder, props, and engines are on a separate sprue (x2) and the tailcome appears to be seperate. 

In fact there are two rudders included, is the second broad one a K rudder? 

Edited July 15, 2020 by 71chally

[Julien]

30 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I'm just guessing because they only built forty examples, and they were used by only one air force in one war and in one scheme, the likelihood of doing the tooling to make a B-26K might not make much sense, business-wise; if they have planned for this version, I would think it would be apparent by examining the way the current two releases have been engineered. Don't get me wrong, '71' I sincerely hope the 1/48 modelers get either a dedicated kit or an aftermarket conversion set, I just don't think that's going to happen- hoping I'm wrong, you understand. Did Cutting Edge do a B-26K conversion in 1/48? I'm not very well-versed on 1/48 scale kits and aftermarket sets. (This just in- found an article on this set that might help @Julien- see the link-looks like the way to go, if you can find one and it doesn't go for crazy money!) Thanks for your post, '71!'

Mike

 

https://modelingmadness.com/others/detailsets/mesnerce48039.htm

Miniart just did two different kits onf a one off tank conversion, mainly as I think they had most o the parts already tooled, hopefully they can just include some extra parts? this seems to be the way they tool their kits?

[72modeler]

On 7/15/2020 at 2:54 PM, Julien said:

Not the same as in person but the ICM kit looks like this;

Julien, thanks for posting the sprue shots. After looking at them closely, it doesn't appear to me that the kit is engineered to do a B-26K; I assume their A-26B kit sprues are the same except for the solid nose parts. Here's what I think- just my uneducated thoughts from a modeler who isn't well-versed in 1/48 kits:

• The cowl nose ring would have to be different, as the K did away with the carb intake and relocated it to the top of the nacelle
• I don't see a B-26K rudder, just the standard rudder and elevators, but I could be wrong on that
• prop blades  are not shaped correctly for a B/C and definitely not correct for a K
• engines and magnetos not correct for a K
• main gear hubs not correct for a K
• no tip tanks or blade antennas for a K

I guess all of these parts could be put on a single sprue, but since the parts mentioned above that would need to be changed are scattered on several sprues of the ICM kits already released,  that would make a new K sprue a less economical proposition, in my opinion.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I have been buying parts and robbing kits to do a K in 1/72 scale, as I definitely agree with you that it's one nasty-looking Invader! So far I've spent a lot more than I paid for the 1/72 Italeri B-26K:

Paragon B-26K conversion set (uses the Italeri B-26K kit and supplies new cowlings, props, tip tanks, rudder, carb intakes, etched vortex generators, rudder, wing stores pylons, all antennas)

Paragon A-26/B-26K flaps

CMK B-26K interior

CMK  A-26/B-26K wheel bays, undercart doors

True Details KC-135 wheels (Only need two, but what the heck!) You could also try to find the 1/72 AMT KC-135 kit, but that's a LOT of money to spend for two wheels!

 

The A-26B used the R-2800-27/71/79 B-series engine; the A-26C used the R-2800-27/71 B-series engine, and the B-26K used the R-2800-52W C-series engine

See the linked photos of the B and C series Invader engines- the -52W is the one that has the cylindrical crankcase cover with all the bolts. Hope you can use this information! Good luck on your project, Julien!

Mike

 

https://www.combatairmuseum.org/engines/prattwhitneyr2800.html

 

http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800.htm

[Slater]

I can recall seeing one or two of these in the Boneyard at Davis-Monthan AFB in the late 1970's.

[Gmat]

The B-26K also served in Congo and in Panama. I've read that some may have made it to Germany. 

[Finn]

While waiting for a B-26K kit or conversion, you can check out the parts manual:

 

https://www.docdroid.com/oiHN1it/douglas-b-26k-illustrated-parts-breakdown-pdf

 

Jari

[71chally]

12 hours ago, 72modeler said:

After looking at them closely, it doesn't appear to me that the kit is engineered to do a B-26K...

• The cowl nose ring would have to be different, as the K did away with the carb intake and relocated it to the top of the nacelle
• I don't see a B-26K rudder, just the standard rudder and elevators, but I could be wrong on that
• prop blades  are not shaped correctly for a B/C and definitely not correct for a K
• engines and magnetos not correct for a K
• main gear hubs not correct for a K
• no tip tanks or blade antennas for a K

I guess all of these parts could be put on a single sprue, but since the parts mentioned above that would need to be changed are scattered on several sprues of the ICM kits already released,  that would make a new K sprue a less economical proposition, in my opinion.

 

All of those parts you mention, ie cowlings, props, engines, magnetos and main wheels are on a single sprue D (x 2), it would be very easy to substitute with a new sprue with the K specific parts. 

Courtesy of Julien

 

Either the K tip tanks and aerials etc could replace the uneeded bombs, cannon and turret equipment on sprue D, or they could easily be on a new separate sprue entirely with the upper turret blanking piece and broad chord rudder.

 

Reading through the Rumormonger and Facebook ICM Invader threads there is more vocal demand for the K variant than any other variant.

 

 

At the moment only ICM know if they will do a Counter Invader of course, personally speaking I would be amazed if they have produced a new high tech Invader molding without consideration to doing a K model, I would say the break down of parts does indicate they are planning one.

 

If you're really fussy there would probably still a lot of detail that you could add to any prospective kit or conversion, such as the external armour and some of the wing details differ due to the strengthening work by On Mark.

 

Nice video of 'Special Kay' here, great for some detail shots.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by 71chally

[72modeler]

12 hours ago, Slater said:

I can recall seeing one or two of these in the Boneyard at Davis-Monthan AFB in the late 1970's.

One of our old San Antonio Modelers Society chapter long-time members, John Kerr, went there when the K's were retired and took color slides of every single one- from both sides. It was an amazing slide show that he presented at one of our monthly meetings. Many had mission markers and/or names on the nose. Sure wish John had done a book on the K with all those photos; nowadays, a photo disk would have been so easy!

Mike

[Gmat]

Some links. Hope it's useful.

From the Bay of Pigs to Lake Tanganyika- Non-State Armed Actors in the Congo Crisis, 1960-1967

http://revues.univ-tlse2.fr/pum/nacelles/index.php?id=730

 

 

Kinshasa Then and Now- Leopoldville 1957 - Battle of the breweries

http://kosubaawate.blogspot.com/2016/01/leopoldville-1957-battle-of-breweries.html

 

Air Forces that flew the A-26 Invader

http://napoleon130.tripod.com/id249.html

 

The Counter-Invader

https://sites.google.com/site/a26legacy/home/history/counter-invader

 

 

[71chally]

All great links GMAT, that third one is fascinating and shows some interesting schemes.

I think that's the most I've seen about the two RAF examples aswel.

[stevehnz]

I was interested to read about an almost Kiwi connection with 4 RNZAF squadrons mooted, I'm guessing that would have been Pacific theatre.

Steve.

[Slater]

In Southeast Asia service, wasn't the B-26K redesignated A-26A?

[stevehnz]

I think it was the other way, post war, the A-26 became the B-26 with the demise of the B-26 Marauder., The K just followed in turn.

Steve.

[71chally]

Slater is correct, I can't remember the reason but the B-26K became the A-26A in active service, something to do with not admitting deployment of bombers in certain areas.

I think there might be more about it in those links.

 

I don't think A was used first time around as it remained a prototype, clever stuff eh!

[Slater]

From Wikipedia:

 

 "In May 1966, the B-26K was re-designated A-26A for political reasons (Thailand did not allow the U.S. to have bombers stationed in country at the time, so the Invaders were redesignated with an "A", for attack aircraft) and deployed in Thailand to help disrupt supplies moving along the Ho Chi Minh trail."

[Graham Boak]

Given the aircraft's size and capability, to be fair it was much more in the Attack class than the Bomber, particularly given the USAF's restriction of B to the strategic category (at lest after the Canberra).  Bearing in mind the USAF habit of labelling tactical aircraft as fighters, we're perhaps lucky it wasn't the F-26A.

 

OK. not the Canberra.  Any advance on the B-66?

[Slater]

Well, the first AC-47 "Spooky" gunships were designated "FC-47's" for some bizarre reason.

[71chally]

The USAAF seems to have quietly dropped the A Attack designation altogether after the war, where as the USN embraced it from heavy bombers (for a carrier), large supersonic designs, to much smaller combat aircraft.  You would think that types as diverse as F-84, B-66 and B-57 would have suited Attack designations.

Maybe it was an inter service project funding thing?

 

Was the A-37 the first Attack aircraft of the USAF, and only joined by the A-7 and A-10?

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by 71chally