FAA Wildcat Underside Colours

[Spec7]

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Your argument is all over the place.

Yes you see but its not an argument..its just my personal opinions

I shall keep them to myself in future. 🙂 Apologies to mick b who has had his thread hijacked

 

[dogsbody]

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies, you're urinating into the prevaling breeze! He's not listening to you at all. He's made up his mind that he has all the information he needs and that he is right. You may as well leave this, as he thinks he knows better. Save your breath.

 

Spec 7 said:

" its just my personal opinions "

 

 

You know what they say about opinions: They're like buttholes. Everybody's got one.

 

 

 

Chris

[Spec7]

You seem to have two...work it out

[11bravo]

Just to take this most interesting (and occasionally entertaining) thread in yet another direction:   Since this thread seems to have Jamie's attention, I have to ask - any update on your paints making their way to the USA?

 

Regards,

 

John

[Spec7]

You know i am new here, i had hoped to find some like minded amateur modeller's.  People that were understanding of others, people who might welcome others into their hobby.

When i said to friends in modelling circles i was going to join Britmodeller people laughed and the general opinion was "well good luck with that". Its closed shop, its run by half a dozen  rivet counters who are anal in preserving their hierarchy.

I have gone out of my way to be nice and i have had comments like the above from Dogsbody ? Why i ask ? Presumably you are part of the same gang Piddling on newcomers marking your territory ?

Jamie, nobody actually asked you so why chime in ? i have an opinion, you have an opinion, i am happy with mine, you are happy with yours, what we think of each others opinions really doesnt matter and didn't need your input.

My last build attracted just 1 follower here, nearly ever comment was a criticism of some sort , i dont suppose you lot have built anything in years ?

Never mind i thought people will come round if you can break down this wall britmodller puts up against outsider....Unfortunately when differing views turn in to foul mouthed attacks and attempts to belittle its brings out the very worst in Social media, i could of course enter into a slanging match with dogsbreath and he would lose hands down but i will put my last few weeks here down to experience and move on. You lot can find someone else to rant and rave at.

[11bravo]

11 minutes ago, Spec7 said:

You know i am new here, i had hoped to find some like minded amateur modeller's.  People that were understanding of others, people who might welcome others into their hobby.

When i said to friends in modelling circles i was going to join Britmodeller people laughed and the general opinion was "well good luck with that". Its closed shop, its run by half a dozen  rivet counters who are anal in preserving their hierarchy.

I have gone out of my way to be nice and i have had comments like the above from Dogsbody ? Why i ask ? Presumably you are part of the same gang Piddling on newcomers marking your territory ?

Jamie, nobody actually asked you so why chime in ? i have an opinion, you have an opinion, i am happy with mine, you are happy with yours, what we think of each others opinions really doesnt matter and didn't need your input.

My last build attracted just 1 follower here, nearly ever comment was a criticism of some sort , i dont suppose you lot have built anything in years ?

Never mind i thought people will come round if you can break down this wall britmodller puts up against outsider....Unfortunately when differing views turn in to foul mouthed attacks and attempts to belittle its brings out the very worst in Social media, i could of course enter into a slanging match with dogsbreath and he would lose hands down but i will put my last few weeks here down to experience and move on. You lot can find someone else to rant and rave at.

I'm sorry you feel that way Spec7.  I'm relatively new to BM (I too heard the warnings from other sites) and have found it to be very welcoming and I've received a great deal of very helpful advice and support since I've joined.   I certainly haven't felt like this is an "old boys club".

 

I think you might be going a bit overboard in your opinion of this place and hope you'll throttle back a bit and reconsider....   

[JPuente54]

Guys, it's not life or death; it is about paint. Let us remember that and keep it even and level.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Forums are frequently used by fairly dormant users who don't post much/anything but instead find threads when searching for information.

 

Your approach is fine for you - I don't care about that - I care about some poor sucker coming on here looking for Hawker SeaHawk or Grumman Hellcat painting practises and potentially seeing your statements which can be summarized to "nobody knows" go unchallenged to misguide them. YOU don't know that Sky existed from WWII and YOU don't know how Hellcats were painted at the factory, but in this case I do and it's incumbent upon me to correct the record that will be left on this forum for others.

 

You find two types of Britmodeller member. There are those who arrive and think "Wow, what a resource" and there are those who wade right in at the top of their Dunning-Kruger curve trying to impart their wisdom on everyone else and find themselves utterly unable to be corrected in public. There are thousands of the former and one of the latter every few months.

 

As for there being a clique - that's absolute nonsense I'm afraid. There are probably dozens if not hundreds of them on a forum this size and none has any sway on anything. That of course is if one assumes the attitude that any group of modellers who seem to develop a rapport is a clique, which personally I don't. I just see them as small communities and don't think I belong in any of them in truth. There's no order to be preserved - people just tend to get a good idea who knows what they're talking about on particular subjects and will stick their necks out to endorse these individuals.

 

If Sky being a recent invention and not a consistent standardised colour from WWII is the hill you're chosing to die on then be my guest. I'd like to think that the overwhelming majority can see the facts for what they are by now.

 

As for your final little quip there - I build as much as I can, and a brief search of the forum will reveal my numerous ongoing build threads and completed models. I viewed your last thread and was pleased to see you breaking new ground. I rarely use the Follow feature because I get dozens of notifications daily anyway. You made it clear in your opening post that you weren't interested in many of the things I could have offered so I saved my limited time. Two jobs, a wife, two children and trying to keep a hobby going is demanding, you know?

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

2 hours ago, 11bravo said:

Just to take this most interesting (and occasionally entertaining) thread in yet another direction:   Since this thread seems to have Jamie's attention, I have to ask - any update on your paints making their way to the USA?

 

Regards,

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

My holiday to your country that I should be on now was cancelled, so I'm spending my time off my other job making paint.  My wife and I left the kids to their own devices and got another 8 colours tinned and 6 more batches of lids painted ready yesterday. Hopefully by the end of next week when Stew leaves the first order will be away to the new dealer, then I get started on the next trade orders which all landed at once. My modelling will be slowing down further.

 

Top tip - NEVER start a business related to your hobby.

[72modeler]

9 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

My holiday to your country that I should be on now was cancelled

If by that you meant the IPMS USA national convention in my home state, I am disappointed, too, as it would be most likely have been my only chance to meet so many of the UK modelers and tradespeople I have met and come to know here on BM. See you in '23, perhaps? (Our Alamo Squadron and the Austin IPMS chapters were the two groups putting the show on, and my heart goes out to all my modeling friends and fellow competitors in both chapters.) Looking forward to being able to order colourcoats  from a U.S. distributor soon!

Mike

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Just now, 72modeler said:

If by that you meant the IPMS USA national convention in my home state, I am disappointed, too, as it would be most likely have been my only chance to meet so many of the UK modelers and tradespeople I have met and come to know here on BM. See you in '23, perhaps? (Our Alamo Squadron and the Austin IPMS chapters were the two groups putting the show on, and my heart goes out to all my modeling friends and fellow competitors in both chapters.) Looking forward to being able to order colourcoats  from a U.S. distributor soon!

Mike

 

Hi Mike, I hate to disappoint but it's my 15th wedding anniversary today and last year after the fire (but before the insurance backtracked from paying out in full) we booked 2 weeks in Walt Disney World Florida mainly for my girls who are 10 and 8 years old. My wife loves Disney too (perhaps more than the children???) so we thought it would be a nice 15th. So much for that!

 

Maybe one of these years I'll manage a show in the USA though

[11bravo]

34 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Hi John,

 

My holiday to your country that I should be on now was cancelled, so I'm spending my time off my other job making paint.  My wife and I left the kids to their own devices and got another 8 colours tinned and 6 more batches of lids painted ready yesterday. Hopefully by the end of next week when Stew leaves the first order will be away to the new dealer, then I get started on the next trade orders which all landed at once. My modelling will be slowing down further.

 

Top tip - NEVER start a business related to your hobby.

Thanks for the update Jamie, please keep us posted on when your paints are available over here.    
 

I feel your pain about cancelled vacations, I was supposed to be in Dublin right now downing a pint (or three) of Guinness.   Given the way Covid has been grossly mismanaged over here, I don’t think I’ll be taking any vacations for quite a while.    

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

2 minutes ago, 11bravo said:

Thanks for the update Jamie, please keep us posted on when your paints are available over here.    
 

I feel your pain about cancelled vacations, I was supposed to be in Dublin right now downing a pint (or three) of Guinness.   Given the way Covid has been grossly mismanaged over here, I don’t think I’ll be taking any vacations for quite a while.    

 

 

Same here my friend!

 

I noticed the other day that the countries with the lowest COVID-19 death tolls per Capita and already on the way to recovery economically are all run by female heads of state. They must be doing something right...

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Spec7 said:

My last build

this one?

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235074527-hurricane-aficionados-look-away-now…/

2 hours ago, Spec7 said:

attracted just 1 follower here, nearly ever comment was a criticism of some sort , 

 

? 

[11bravo]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

this one?

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235074527-hurricane-aficionados-look-away-now…/

 

? 

? As well.  I see nothing but folks going out of their way to provide helpful info and support.  

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

this one?

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235074527-hurricane-aficionados-look-away-now…/

 

? 

 

11 hours ago, 11bravo said:

? As well.  I see nothing but folks going out of their way to provide helpful info and support.  

 

I suspect that in this case the answers providing lots of information about what one would find inside a Hurricane's fabric outer and the chronology of painting practises were the wrong answer. The one hoped for was more perhaps akin to "Nobody really knows because some Flight Sergeant fitter redesigned the internal structure of each of them in the field and, err, there was a war on so internally they'd have whichever version of Merlin and primer/paint colour they could find at B&Q and wiring, plumbing, cabling and equipment was improvised for each one", ergo Bloody Rivet Counters.

[alt-92]

Well that took an interesting turn...

Can't please everyone. 

 

On 7/15/2020 at 9:38 AM, Spec7 said:

when i was building 1/72 airfix spits by the dozen in the 60's even the instructions called out Duck egg Blue very much like the BB film.

I remember those as well.

In fact, I dug up one of the victims of my youthful indiscretions and had a look at what was then painted to the instructed Humbrol colours.

 

 

Probably looked good at the time, but you would be hard pressed to call it an accurate representation of TLS

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

In fact, I dug up one of the victims of my youthful indiscretions and had a look at what was then painted to the instructed Humbrol colours.

 

That looks like the Revell kit.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-great-britain-h-611-supermarine-spitfire-mkii--161790

 

Looking at a similar vintage Revell kit, they don't specify a brand just a basic colour, eg light blue.

One for the nostalgia thread!  

 

[alt-92]

they're humbrol colours as those were the only ones the hobby store had (and I still have the tins )

 

[Spec7]

Dont worry alt-92, you are quite right

 

The rather stupid sarcasm about fitters painting aircraft and me not having a clue about colours just makes you look a bit desperate and reinforces the stereo type image.... Sky type s and Duck egg Blue were the same thing so they were Duck egg blue. The confusion came about because there was already a Sky blue and some aircraft were mistakenly initially painted sky blue . Aircraft with black and white under surfaces were re painted in the field by AC guys with (if it pleases you) fags hanging out of their mouths no doubt  duck egg blue initially and it was later named Sky type s after the confusion.......but i am Jamie knows best. 

 

 

[alt-92]

Why do you insist on antagonising again?

Honest question. I don't get it. 

A public forum is by definition a place where you can't influence (directly) who responds to your posts.

If someone replies with a fact-based post on something you by your own admission state to be 'because you like it', then you have the choice of accepting that new information for what it is, not responding, or digging your heels in. 
FWIW: if someone says 'im new here' and the registration date is 2011, I tend to be a bit more sceptical than might be good for me.

[Graham Boak]

There are plenty of other sources you can use to guide you, but there is rather more to the story of Sky - and it was named before the fighter squadrons had to repaint their undersides.  The term duck egg blue arose because of an Air Ministry statement to that effect, but the colour was already in use on the undersides of Blenheims.  There was indeed considerable confusion after the introduction of Sky, and it does seem that some units did use some other colours including Sky Blue for repaints before correctly coloured aircraft came through from the factories.  Given the continued confusion over this, and the reported colours at the time, and that the main store issuing paints didn't recognise Sky until December, we have to be in some doubt as to the various undersides seen during the battle, but my own suspicions tend towards a wider use of Sky than sometimes claimed.   Unless direct evidence to the contrary exists - as indeed it does for some cases.  However surprisingly few of these point towards Sky Blue undersides - although it does seem to be much more widespread for the spinners and tail band trim later in the year.

 

Bear in mind that aircraft were and are not painted with any old paint, but only with specific products and within the RAF/FAA with specific colours as issued from stores.  So there was no "duck egg blue" that could be used except as provided.  There is much interest of course around the rare exceptions - mainly the PRU which had a free rein on colours (but still didn't pop down to the local Woolies for their supplies).

 

I've no doubt there are people who claim Britmodeller is cliquish, as there are those who claim the same about Hyperscale, or IPMS, or their local model club (who knows, maybe rightly in that case for small organisations do get like that - or can seem so to an outsider or irregular visitor).  Or their local pub, chess club, Women's Institute... I suspect however these may be the same people in each case.  There certainly are - let's call them clans - that cluster around specific forums, or subjects, but Britmodeller is perhaps the least exclusive website around.  If you don't like one set of contributors go find another.

[Spec7]

I did and do accept that the guy thinks he is right, thats fine but aircraft were painted in the field by erks and he says they were not. Most Duck egg blue aircraft were painted duck egg blue with cans of duck egg blue paint. You cant get away from that, if they renamed it sky type s later thats a different story, they didn't rename it retrospectively.....

Sorry but there are polite discussions and people who add unnecessary digs into post like "i am already starting to tire of this" as if he is speaking to some sort of subordinate..

Anyway it is what it is and i was warned before i joined as many are, the reputation of this site precedes it and thats nothing to do with me...thats the rest of the modelling community that have drawn that conclusion.

HAGW 🙂 over and out.

[alt-92]

11 minutes ago, Spec7 said:

I did and do accept that the guy thinks he is right

So you're still right and everyone else is wrong, got it.

 

I wish you luck and joy in your endeavours. Meanwhile, I quite like this place so I'll be part of 'that' crowd.

The grass always looks greener (no BS code) on the other side however.

Just based on experience in multiple BBS's  in 20 years

[Spec7]

This is exactly why this thread is just so daft......i have not ever said everyone else is wrong, i dont know who is right and who is wrong, i dont believe anyone really does.

Your post is a fine example of reading exactly what you want to read and reading it with a pre conception of what it says that blinds you to what it really says.

 

its the brexit syndrome half the people think they are right, and so do the other half and there is no middle ground, it doesnt make either right or wrong but my point is and always has been i have an opinion and  i am happy with it, Jamie has an opinion and he is happy with it but neither of us are going to accept the other opinion....Thats life, who cares.

the guy asked about Sky on  a wildcat, i gave him my opinion, it rubbed someone else up the wrong way because it differed from his opinion but i wasnt rude enough to say he was wrong  ..People have opinions they are happy with. Some think we should have stayed in the EU, some think there is a god, some think his name is Allah , its a stupid person that stands up and says someone else's opinion is wrong.