BEST 72ND SCALE BF109F CURRENTLY AVAILABLE?

[fishplanebeer]

Dear All,

 

After my 'Emil' build I will be looking to add a 'Friedrich' to my collection as well but would appreciate some thoughts on which is the best from those reasonably available at present.

 

I know AZ and Revell do current ones, plus the rather older Italeri kit is still obtainable but not sure which to go for as my modelling skills are fairly modest so not looking for a kit that requires major surgery or correction.

 

Apologies in advance if this has previously been covered in another thread.

 

Kind Regards

Colin.

[Graham Boak]

The Italeri one is not the first choice, needing a new spinner at the very least and some  care in fitting the cowling.  Others will be more scathing.

 

The new AZ kits are considered pretty good, lacking the nose flaws of their early Gs.  I don't know the current Revell but suspect that if it was excellent there'd have been more said about it.  I think Zvezda may do another, and their recent kits can be good to very good - if it does exist then the Revell may be a rebox.

[murfv]

Another option is the Zvezda kit(same plastic as the current Revell 109F 1/72 kit)  https://www.scalemates.com/kits/zvezda-7302-messerschmitt-bf-109-f-2--147849

[Work In Progress]

Please try a few searches, very little on the keynote types of WW2 has not been covered in at least some detail here.

 

Also, do you really need THE BLOCK CAPS?

[fishplanebeer]

Dear All,

 

Many thanks as I wasn't aware that the Revell was just a re-box of the Zveda kit.

 

I think I'll go for the AZ 'Marseilles' option which is fairly cheap at the moment on a well known web site and seems to have pretty good feed-back in terms of accuracy. I did think about Fine Molds initially but these are like hens teeth and very expensive if you are ever able to find one.

 

Thanks again and will use lower case in future.

 

Colin.

[Wm Blecky]

Colin, a head's up, the AZ kit still has a "nose flaw" or more correctly a fuselage flaw, even with their "new" 109F kit.  The fuselage, nose section more correctly is still too long.  Some will say that it's only a mm or so, but if you think about it, in 1/72 that "mm or so" translates into a fair bit.

 

For all it's "simplicity", being a snap fit kit, I've read that the Zvezda 109F kit is about the most accurate 109F right now.  I've actually picked up a few of the Zvezda kits and they are not all that bad, in fact, I like them.  As a plus, they even come with a decent pilot figure.

 

Until Eduard start releasing their 109 kits in 1/72, I'll stay with my Fine Molds and Tamiya kits as well as the couple of Zvezda ones now in the collection.

 

HTH FWIW.

 

Wm.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Wm Blecky

[Vlad]

Zvezda hands down.

 

I haven't built it yet, but I have the fuselage halves off the sprue and building it in parallel with an AZ 109F (of which I've built another before). The AZ F looks better than the G at first glance, but as Wm. B said, the nose length issues are still there and they are more complex than just "1mm too long". Personally, I won't be fixing this one (as I have with my recent G builds), and you can be happy with it.

 

But the Zvezda nose shape looks just perfect, it's cheaper, easier to build, comes with a pilot and wheels up option out of the box. So if you can get the Zvezda it's a no brainer. Even if you want an F-4 when they only offer an F-2, the modifications are small.

 

If you specifically want a Marseille aircraft, then that special issue AZ box is arguably better value for money because it comes with the decals you need and includes a canopy mask. Depends how cheap you can get it and whether you can find some "Yellow 14" decals on another sheet with other things you want.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Vlad

[Giorgio N]

I share the same positive opinions on the Zvezda F-2 as the modellers above. One small point however is that due to the "simplified" nature of the kit, this omits the aileron balance weights, a small detail that is however quite visible on the 109. These should be scratchbuilt or found elsewhere (best option would be Quickboost's set, offering 6 such parts)

[John]

Another vote for the Zvezda kit, it's a little beauty and I'm sure it owes much to their 1/48th scale kit.

The mass balances are a miss.

All of the Zvevda snap together kits are nice. The only one I haven't built is the Yak-3, which I have and look at longingly from time to time...🙂

I built the FROG kit for the Group Build here last year and it was fun but a long way from the state of the art

 

 

John 

[fishplanebeer]

Dear All,

 

Thank you for the feedback which has now changed my mind!

 

I have plenty of spare code and unit decals for both the 109 and Fw190 and wasn't overly wedded to the 'Marseilles' finish. As such I'll now go for the Zvezda (Revell) option instead although from what I gather it does not include a trop filter to allow a desert subject which is a pity.

 

I'll dig out the plans I have somewhere for the Bf109F from a very ancient copy of Scale Modeller (?) from the 70's, unless anyone can point me in the direction of a more current issue/version of plans for this type please?

 

By the way I do have the old Frog kit which was great when I built it back in the late 60's but clearly it is now pure nostalgia.

 

Regards

Colin.

[fishplanebeer]

Just to say that after much rummaging I've just found a copy of  'Aircraft Archive - Fighters of WW2 - Volume 2' by Argus Books from 1988 in a dusty corner of my book shelf which includes plans for the F-2 etc.. as well as other real classics such as the P51, Me262, Corsair, Tempest, Me163 etc... so now well armed.

 

This is still available via a VERY well known on-line book seller with ISBN 0852429452 if interested

 

Colin.

[Wm Blecky]

Colin, Quickboost makes a couple of different sets of the sand filter, 72 108, which is the first set:

 

and #72 639 or #72 640:

 

 

 

Wing mass balances are also available from Quickboost as set #72 561:

[72modeler]

I have  the Fine Molds releases of the Bf-109F-2 and F-4, as well as all their boxings of the Bf-109G's, and they look pretty good to me and have been highly regarded in the reviews I have read. Their boxing of the Bf-109F-4 in Marseille's markings, FNMFL-05, is still available from HLJ and is listed for 13.84 BP.

Mike

[dalea]

All of this has prompted me to re-examine some of my superseded Bf 109 kits (Fine Molds for me) and contemplate buying some Blue Rider Tintin decals.

[Vlad]

6 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I have  the Fine Molds releases of the Bf-109F-2 and F-4, as well as all their boxings of the Bf-109G's, and they look pretty good to me and have been highly regarded in the reviews I have read. Their boxing of the Bf-109F-4 in Marseille's markings, FNMFL-05, is still available from HLJ and is listed for 13.84 BP.

Mike

And that much again in postage to the UK 🤣

 

I'm sure they're fine kits (pun intended), but they're not free of issues. For a start they're too short by about as much as the AZ are too long, so I find it odd that people don't hold them to the same standard. The fact these Fine Molds kits still rank highly on the "best 109s" list only shows how badly everyone else has been failing over the years to make a truly great one, despite the popularity of the subject.

[72modeler]

10 minutes ago, Vlad said:

And that much again in postage to the UK 🤣

Vlad,

 

Didn't realize the postage was that prohibitive to the UK- shipping was only $6.80 USD per kit back when I ordered mine, with the kits going for $12.65, but that was before the pandemic and loss of the most economical shipping methods.

 

Re the accuracy of the FM kits- I don't really have any drawings in any of my reference library resources that I can say without a doubt  are accurate; the same for most of the reviews out there; I have the old, and for its time considered accurate, John Beaman articles on modeling the Bf-109, but have no way of knowing how accurate it is/was. I have almost every 1/72 injected Bf-109 kit, and other than wingspan and wing planform, none of them really agree on dimensions and contours, especially the noses. It appears than none of the Bf-109F kits are free of issues, and the same can be said for the later variants, it appears. The new-tool Tamiya G-6 kits seem to be regarded as being pretty accurate, but  that's not the version the original poster was asking about. Short/long- I have NO idea which kit has the correct nose length or contour, or by what drawing/documentation those who have commented upon this used to corroborate their statements. 

 

I have no idea what the 'standard' for a Bf-109F/G/K should be, and perhaps like many others, I will compare the kits I have to the references that are acknowledged to be the most accurate, and try to make an informed decision. I am NOT one of those modelers that "never met a kit I liked," but one who tries to build accurate models within reason. I'm not a millimeter micromanager, but I do marvel at and admire those who are.  If and when I get a Bf-109 in my 'build" queue, then I'll get more serious about  this topic, and hopefully more definitive information will become available!

 

Is this a great hobby or what?

Mike

 

 

[JPuente54]

Didn't Academy offer a Me 109F in Marseille's markings a few years ago? I believe it also had a Kuebelwagen with "Otto(Italian for '8', not a name)" included with it.

[72modeler]

40 minutes ago, JPuente54 said:

Didn't Academy offer a Me 109F in Marseille's markings a few years ago? I believe it also had a Kuebelwagen with "Otto(Italian for '8', not a name)" included with it.

I know the old JoHan Bf-109F did- I wasn't aware Academy did an F in 1/72 scale, just a G. I'm guessing it was the Axis equivalent of their Allison P-51 with a jeep?

Mike

[JPuente54]

Academy's was an Bf-109E or F; I don't remember exactly. It did have the Kuebelwagen added with it as an added bonus.

[Vlad]

@72modeler I was only making the point in general terms, not aimed at you, that there's some inconsistency in how kits are judged.

 

I have built many imperfect kits, corrected some, obsessed over minor details, ignored others. I agree with you, we're just trying to get a model that looks right to us with the information available. There are many kits I like but I would still point out their flaws so others can make educated choices, and sometimes with otherwise good kits the flaws are the only things telling them apart! Unfortunately I don't have primary source drawings. For 109 dimensions I use some shared by a respected member of this forum in another thread about 109s, and am happy to accept, as I was told, that they are based on factory plans. I also prefer to use photographs of the real thing for contour, with caveats about camera angle, distortion etc.

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, Vlad said:

@72modeler I was only making the point in general terms, not aimed at you, that there's some inconsistency in how kits are judged.

 

I have built many imperfect kits, corrected some, obsessed over minor details, ignored others. I agree with you, we're just trying to get a model that looks right to us with the information available. There are many kits I like but I would still point out their flaws so others can make educated choices, and sometimes with otherwise good kits the flaws are the only things telling them apart! Unfortunately I don't have primary source drawings. For 109 dimensions I use some shared by a respected member of this forum in another thread about 109s, and am happy to accept, as I was told, that they are based on factory plans. I also prefer to use photographs of the real thing for contour, with caveats about camera angle, distortion etc.

Good points, Vlad. I didn't take offense with your post, as everybody has their 'favorite' aircraft on which they've done a ton of research and have numerous references and are understandably emotional about.  I get so frustrated when I find a set of drawings that look incredible in every respect but don't scale out even to accepted span and length figures, which should be inviolate basics! My modeling mentor and best friend of 50 years, who is a retired dentist, can see a 1-2 mm error in dimension or shape, which I sure can't, but  but he dealt with dimensions that small or smaller on a daily basis in his practice. I have come to respect the knowledge of @Troy Smith for Hurricanes, the late Edgar Brooks and @Graham Boakfor Spitfires, Jim Maas for Brewster Buffalos, and Charles Neely for Mustangs, as it sounds like you do for your friend and his knowledge of Bf-109's. The neat thing about Britmodeller is that almost everybody is willing and able to contribute from their strengths and at the same time welcome the strengths of others. 

Mike

[Giorgio N]

A couple of thoughts that came to my mind on the 109F in 1/72...

First is about the Zvezda kit: this represents an F-2 and I don'tn know how easy or not it is to convert this other later subvariants. Of course if the OP is happy with an F-2 then there's no further work involved...

Then is another F kit that I know of and actually I have in the stash... in two copies! Amodel issued a few years ago a number of 109F variants, These from what I read seem to be short run copies of the Fine Molds kits. As such they offer plenty of detail but however all parts need cleaning up and assembly is not really easy. They are still available at prices that seem to vary from around £10 to £15, Is it worth considering it ? Not sure... not everyone will be happy with Amodel style of short run moulds and it may also be expensive if bought at the higher end of the range. At that point most will probably go for the original Fine Molds kits

[Vlad]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

A couple of thoughts that came to my mind on the 109F in 1/72...

First is about the Zvezda kit: this represents an F-2 and I don'tn know how easy or not it is to convert this other later subvariants. Of course if the OP is happy with an F-2 then there's no further work involved...

Then is another F kit that I know of and actually I have in the stash... in two copies! Amodel issued a few years ago a number of 109F variants, These from what I read seem to be short run copies of the Fine Molds kits. As such they offer plenty of detail but however all parts need cleaning up and assembly is not really easy. They are still available at prices that seem to vary from around £10 to £15, Is it worth considering it ? Not sure... not everyone will be happy with Amodel style of short run moulds and it may also be expensive if bought at the higher end of the range. At that point most will probably go for the original Fine Molds kits

 

To get an F-4 from the Zvezda F-2 kit you need to scrape/sand off the reinforcement strips either side of the last frame before the tail. And you need to build up the wheel wells so they have a round opening not a squared off one. Other than that, in 1/72 at least, there's not much more to it. If your subject has the extra armoured glass on the windscreen you need to find that somehwere because Zvezda doesn't include one. For some late production F-4s you might need the slightly deeper G-2 style oil radiator.

 

A-model looks good according to this review: http://www.hyperscale.com/2007/reviews/kits/amodel72125reviewgp_1.htm

 

They have lengthened the nose compared to FM, but it seems it would be troublesome to build.

 

I have noticed a few more small oddities with the Zvezda. You need to drill out the supercharger intake since it's provided as a simplified solid piece. And there are inexplicably no panel lines at all on the upper wing surface.

 

@72modeler if this thread was about Spitfires or Mustangs I wouldn't dream of pointing out a milimetre inaccuracy in a kit. But for 109s, I see so many kits where the nose contours just don't look right to me. In 1/72 in my opinion only Zvezda and Tamiya have "got it" at the moment. Others would probably not notice, in the same way I'd happily build one of those Spitfire kits where the wing isn't in the right place. The AZ and FM kits are both excellent choices, especially considering how few versions Zvezda/Tamiya cover between them.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Vlad

[MDriskill]

This remarkable thread appeared on a Czech forum after the AZ kits first came out:

 

https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80889&hilit=kitir

 

Too bad I can't read it! Obviously a heated debate about the issues in those kits, with notes on other kits, and some pretty amazing graphics (how is that "drawing over a photo" thing done!). And I was struck not only by the great variances between kits - but also between the published drawings they referenced. One would think there are enough real 109's and factory info out there, to have created a consensus definitive late-109 drawing set. But that does not seem to be the case, and must surely cloud any discussion on the subject.

 

Anyway, one valuable graphic in the thread is a dimensioned "factory" side view...see below. I used this to make an old-fashioned, hand-drafted diagram to measure fuselage length at major structural bulkheads. And that confirmed what was stated above: the Zvezda F and Tamiya G are right on the money from nose to tail; but the FM's are a bit short, and the AZ's a bit long, In both cases, the discrepancy falls in the small bay between the windscreen and firewall; everything fore and aft is very close viewed in isolation.

 

All that being said, to my eye these length variations are not too significant. To many folks, other things will catch the eye more when studying them in 3-dimensions. But all these kits look very much like Bf 109's to me when you take the micrometer away, and I've seen convincing models made from each.

 

The Zvezda F benefits from the research done for their remarkable 1/48 F kits. It's highly accurate, but a "snap kit" has its limits. Some have had issues with the odd type of plastic used for the canopy, which apparently can react badly to some types of masking materials, and some examples have significant sink marks on the wings.

 

The FM kits were the standard for years. Crisply molded, pay close attention to differences between variants, and the bits like props and wheels that can add so much to a small model's appearance (and are so often poor in 1/72 kits) are very convincing. US modeler Barry Numerick has built many world-class replicas from them - check out this recent tribute on "Falke Eins:"

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2020/06/building-bf-109-with-award-winning.html

 

The AZ F is, in the box at least, IMHO the best of that company's 109's so far. It fixes the firewall height issue of their initial G series (to my eye, worse than the length glitch), has pretty crisp surface detail and convincing wheel wells and cockpit, and as noted above comes with a lot of very useful spare parts. 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by MDriskill

[Vlad]

WOW! What a resource!

 

Those are the drawings/dimensions I use as reference, and I believe you are the one who posted them, but I have not seen that whole thread before (and not for lack of trying). I've saved every image there now and bookmarked it, I may put it through Google translate at some point and see if I can make some sense of the resulting trainwreck. But the images mostly speak for themselves.

 

The more I look at it though, and reviewing sprue shots, instructions and cockpit parts breakdown as well, the more I start to think the AZ are "inspired", shall we say, by the FM. It looks like they knew about the length but overcorrected with an insert at the firewall.

 

But we're way off topic now. 😉

 

EDIT: and I'm not deliberately playing Devil's Advocate, but I do like rocking the boat and challenging the accepted status of the FM kits. Gold standard for years I'm sure they were, and there are some truly exceptional builds of them, but a critical eye is necessary.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Vlad