Tim Moff Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) I had an old tool Tamiya Spit, which seems relatively straightforward so I looked for decals as the originals are no good. I saw the Possum Werks decals that covered the dogfight that ended in both Dundas, his wingman PO Paul A Ballion and Maj Helmut Wick, Luftwaffe top scoring pilot and Group Commander of JG 2's demise. Perfect, 2 subjects in 1 go, I click buy.....then I looked at the date of Dundas' final sortie....28 Nov 1940......after the official battle dates....not wanting to feel the wrath of the GB moderators, I looked to use the decals as much as I could...no records I could find of Dundas flying X4586 or R6631 before 30th Oct so counted out both on the sheet. With Helmut Wick he was promoted to Major just before the end of the battle, but who knows if his aircraft was repainted by 30 Oct.... I digress - I looked at the records of aircraft that John Dundas to decide on an aircraft to model. One that stuck out was R6915, Dundas flew it as PR-U on 9 Oct and claimed a Bf110 probable kill, as well as being injured in the leg by a cannon round. He was then to be awarded the DFC. The aircraft is still around on display in the Imperial War Museum in London. ''Eleven days later Dundas claimed a probable victory against a Bf 110, after a battle with German aircraft six miles north of RAF Warmwell at 16:30. Despite firing a 12–14 second burst at the enemy fighter, he did not see it crash. During the battle Dundas was hit in the leg when a cannon round exploded in his cockpit, but flew again the next day. The Spitfire Dundas flew that day, R6915, still exists, having been preserved by the Imperial War Museum. By 9 October 1940, his score stood at 10 and he was award the Distinguished Flying Cross.'' Using the various sets I think I can get the right decals. Any pearls of wisdom ref the old tool Tamiya kit build please let me know - should it be the 'blown' cockpit? Also any more specifics about R6915/PR-U ? Kit - pilot does seem quite big compared to the airfix and Fujumi characters! Montex masks and decals Build research and plan! Got the bits off the sprue and cleaned up No head armour so I grabbed the airfix part and some plasticard to replicate! Nor perfect but hey it will do, will have the pilot in and hood closed Primed using Stynlrez - thought I would try it....bizarre put 30 psi through my Iwata Neo .3 needle, but it came out ok then clogged up and was a bit messy cleaning up.....results are good, but I do like the Mr Paint Laquer pre mixed or Mr Surfacer 1500...Will prime the prop and pilots in white for ease. As I have copious builds (see more on Maj Wick to come!) mt plan is to get all the bits off the sprues, prime, then paint interiors/crew together to save time, paint and airbrush cleaning! Things will then progress as whatever pace takes my feelings towards various subjects.... Any top tips v welcome ref this old tool and subject matter! Edited August 22, 2020 by Tim Moff 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattG Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Hi Tim, I too built this exact kit as R6915 many years ago having thought of building X4586 and changing my mind for the same reason. It's a lovely kit, and goes together beautifully. However to throw a spanner in the works Dundas did fly X4586 during the Battle of Britain, although he doesn't appear to have flown in combat in this aircraft. 609 Squadrons Operations Book has him flying X4586 four times that I could quickly see in late October 1940 (there may be others I didn't spot): 27/10/1940. Up 16:40, down 17:55. Patrol base 17,000 ft. 28/10/1940. Up 16:25, down 17:40. Patrol Portsmouth 17,000 ft. 29/10/1940. Up 08:50, down 09:20. Patrol Swanage. Angels 10,000 ft. 31/10/1940. Up 14:15, down 15:15. Patrol Isle of Wight, cloud base. ORBs are available for free (at the moment) from the National Archives. So X4586 would definitely count as an aircraft Dundas flew during the Battle of Britain for this group build ... but equally R6915 is an interesting aircraft as many successful pilots flew it (see the IWM website here). Decisions, decisions...... Matt 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 16 hours ago, MattG said: Hi Tim, I too built this exact kit as R6915 many years ago having thought of building X4586 and changing my mind for the same reason. It's a lovely kit, and goes together beautifully. However to throw a spanner in the works Dundas did fly X4586 during the Battle of Britain, although he doesn't appear to have flown in combat in this aircraft. 609 Squadrons Operations Book has him flying X4586 four times that I could quickly see in late October 1940 (there may be others I didn't spot): 27/10/1940. Up 16:40, down 17:55. Patrol base 17,000 ft. 28/10/1940. Up 16:25, down 17:40. Patrol Portsmouth 17,000 ft. 29/10/1940. Up 08:50, down 09:20. Patrol Swanage. Angels 10,000 ft. 31/10/1940. Up 14:15, down 15:15. Patrol Isle of Wight, cloud base. ORBs are available for free (at the moment) from the National Archives. So X4586 would definitely count as an aircraft Dundas flew during the Battle of Britain for this group build ... but equally R6915 is an interesting aircraft as many successful pilots flew it (see the IWM website here). Decisions, decisions...... Matt Thanks very much - that's really helpful! Looks like the Tamiya kit has the right propeller and spinner for R6915 and the fact you built it using the kit wins it for me! As you say its interesting in that it was flown a lot in combat with some kills, Dundas was injured in it and earned the final kill to secure his DFC! Any pointers from your build? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattG Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Tim Moff said: Any pointers from your build? It's been a while since I built this particular kit (10 years plus) but as I said it goes together incredibly easily and looks like a Spitfire when finished, so no pointers really! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 Had some time over the weekend, managed to start some cockpits. The pilot is a big lad, hopefully he will fit in. Always prime them in white, so am waiting on white primer as I'm out. Again not the best IP but it will all be closed up. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 Bit more work. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 He fits in well, I forgot to add mine before closing the fuselage. Managed to get him in without any surgery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 Always satisfaction when closing up the fuselage ! hopefully will get the cockpit in soon, just need to paint the plasti card piece I’ve made to simulate the seat rear armour - I’d done the headrest but forgot the main bit....I will wedge it in Behind the seat and get the pilot in before dropping the cockpit in. Once that’s fine should be on a roll! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Seems to be going together well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Edging to paint..... Will test fit the wheels up and get the cowling on, may have to fill a little area around the wing roots by the looks of it....I expect I should mask the canopy and get it on, I take it the inside frames are the interior green colour? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Looking good, quick work again. 4 hours ago, Tim Moff said: I take it the inside frames are the interior green colour? Yep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 In keeping with my other builds, I masked the canopy pieces yesterday, just too hot to go in the garage and get this build ready for paint, so close! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 getting the last bits done before I put the canopy on - need to paint the sight that I connected first . 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Got some primer on - trusty Mr Surfacer 1500 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) Got the Sky on and tried to layer it a bit for some tonal variation - that said the aircraft was only about 4 months old at the time so not too much weathering wise. Mr Paint for this build. Have just got the appropriate Mr Color paints as well so I will mix up the RAF builds. Masked ready for the Dark Earth. Id usually marble paint the area using a lighter version of the main colour, mist top coat, mask and do the same with the Dark Green - but given the age as mentioned and the fact that I’ve kindly been donated some paint masks, I am going to paint it all Dark Earth, maybe post fade a few areas, mask then paint the Dark Green, post fade again.... will have to wait, a few days break with family in Devon awaits ! Edited August 23, 2020 by Tim Moff 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Just tuned in on your build - man, you work fast! One point to note with this kit is that the brace behind the pilots head back is moulded into the rear part of the canopy and needs to be painted before you attach it. I see you have already done so, so hope you were on to that. Looking good - nice finish on the lower surfaces! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said: Just tuned in on your build - man, you work fast! One point to note with this kit is that the brace behind the pilots head back is moulded into the rear part of the canopy and needs to be painted before you attach it. I see you have already done so, so hope you were on to that. Looking good - nice finish on the lower surfaces! Thanks Yes I taped the inside and painted it int green - not sure if it will show through though! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 Looking forward can I ask advice on the red dope gun covers - in this build Dundas did fire at and claim a Bf110. Should I just leave the guns uncovered ? Or should I use masking tape over the guns, painted red, with holes in? whilst I’m asking, how would it be on a parked Spit about to take off and the Hurricane that’s fired it’s guns in combat ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beema Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) Hi Tim, I would assume that the gun patches were replaced once the aircraft had had its guns cleaned and was rearmed. If the guns were fired I would also assume the round put a hole in the patch rather than renewing it entirely. If the guns were not fired - then no hole. From these hallowed pages pages I understand that patches were either doped on or came on a roll like tape. If they were like tape I guess the damaged patches were peeled off and replaced. The same would have to happen if doped but I wonder if this left some sort of residual build up. So if an aircraft had been rearmed, gun patches in tact, just landed, guns fired, not rearmed, patches not intact.. Edited August 24, 2020 by Grey Beema 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) Camo on. using Mr Paint for this one - no marbling, straight DE, mask and DG. sometimes this can look a bit toy like, so I may well post shade a touch, the airframe was fairly new at the time modelled. the Eduard masks kindly donated by @theplasticsurgeon worked great. just a bit of touch ups and will look at decals - Mr Paint provides a gloss surface as the finish. as no actual pics am using other aircraft as references to try to get the decals correct, luckily I have the Dundas /Wick set that help a lot. Edited August 27, 2020 by Tim Moff 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Nice finish - looking every bit a BoB Spitfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Nice work on the camo scheme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) Gloss on decals started so ok the Stb side was going to do PR o U .... seems a 50/50 but some references around the time should this... the big q is serial number - Under PR or over PR code? or should I go U o PR? I’ve looked through all the links that work and some other Sqn pics but am open to views before they go on !! Edited September 8, 2020 by Tim Moff 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Moff Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 Having just found @JackG build thread (wished I'd looked earlier would have saved some pain with the wheels up issues!) I will go with Serial number then PR o U over the stop on the Std side. Not sure if I have the gas decal, may need to paint. Also like the gun port cover idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Hello Tim, coming along nicely. It does seem scale limits of plastic creates problems for raised landing gear for any type of aircraft model that has the wheels still visible. The problem can become worse the smaller the scale, but you seem to have sorted it out just fine. Concerning the serial, unless you have a photo, I'd go with the fuselage codes over top, since the serial would have been applied at the factory, and codes were painted on afterwards by the squadron. What do you make of those upper wing roundels - odd dimensions. These too were applied at the factory, and should have been standard by the time R6915 flew in July. According the Spitfire production page, first flight was July 11th 1940. http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p010.html regards, Jack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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