2996 Victor Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Hello there and welcome to my first workbench thread. So, a bit of background about me before getting into the nitty gritty: I started aviation modelling when I was seven or eight years old, my first effort being a Matchbox Westland Lysander, bought from the local corner shop. My Mum started it with me, she made a good job of the interior, and then I proceeded to make a right gluey mess of the rest of it! Build time, approx one hour 😆 its amazing it stayed in one piece! Anyway, I was hooked and up until I was in my mid-teens I continued building aircraft kits, mostly 1/72 scale, all sorts of brands and types, and actually didn't do too badly in the end. I then embarked on model railways for the next ten years, until aircraft again became an interest, this time in 1/48 scale, and although I acquired quite a stash I didn't actually build anything. Fast forward through marriage, children, divorce, and finding the love of my life, and I'm again model-making, both railway and aviation. So here we go! Cheers, Mark 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 1/72 SCALE AIRFIX CURTISS TOMAHAWK IIB My reason for starting this build was an attempt to get my two sons, 13 and 12, to do something a bit different and broaden their horizons slightly. So for their birthdays this year, I got them each an example of the Airfix Starter Set of the Tomahawk IIb, together with one for myself. I sent them each a package containing a kit, a cutting mat, craft knife, sanding sticks, extra paints and brushes, and crib sheet of advice notes. The idea was that we would each make the kit, and when we see each other next, we could bring the models along and see how we got on. My eldest has finished his, and although I haven't seen it yet, I am SOOOOOO proud of him. He's on the Autistic Spectrum, and getting him interested in new things isn't the easiest thing in the world! My efforts, however, haven't gone too smoothly. I'm always trying to do the best I can, of course, and so I sought out some detail sets. I'm not convinced they were really a good idea, but following two false starts, I've persevered. False Start 1: I felt the panel lines were a bit deep, so had the genius idea of spraying a coat of primer on and sanding it back, so that the primer would act as a filler and reduce the panel lines to something finer. Unfortunately, I sprayed on too much, and Presto! the airframe became smoother than a baby's bottom lip. Attempts to rescribe are best glossed over..... False Start 2: A light coat of primer and sanding back left nice fine panel lines. "Yes!" I thought, "we're onto a winner here!" So the interior detail was scraped away and the CMK cockpit sidewalls added. (Point to note here: if using this set, line up the the rear of the sidewalls with the rear of the cockpit, DON'T line up the shaping on the coaming.) The tub was made up, and the interior parts sprayed and detail painted. Looking good! Unfortunately, I hadn't scraped down the cockpit sidewalls enough an no matter how I tried, the IP and gun butts would not fit. Despair..... So, onto my third attempt, with another CMK set. Obligatory box and sprue shots: http:// http:// Apologies for the state of the workbench - It's been tidied up now! Now let me say that the CMK resin parts are very nice, but the instructions are dismal. However, experience with FS2 ensured that I scraped down the kit's cockpit sidewalls until I was afeared they'd fold. Plus, I sanded the backs of the CMK sidewalls until they were less than a fag paper's thickness: http:// http:// These fragile bits were subjected to a light wash in soapy water, and once dry joined together with a dab or three of CA: http:// The tub is lurking in the background, and has been fitted with the kit's control column (I managed to not break it!) and an undercarriage lever made from a short length to PB wire with a blob of CA on top. In carving out the rear of the cockit where the pilots headrest goes, which is necessary to fit the CMK tub, I got a bit lairy with the scalpel..... http:// This little cock-up has caused me to re-think the build sequence, as I don't want to be filling, sanding and retouching the interior paint once the tub is fixed. Luckily, I can close up the rear of the fuselage to effect the repair whilst leaving the front temporarily unglued, allowing the tub to be inserted from underneath 🙂 You can also see in this pic the fillet I've inserted in the cowling - this is to widen it so it matches the width of the forward cowling. Along with the much-thinned cockpit sidewalls, this little dodge has enabled the IP to fit. Happy Days! More soon. Kind regards, Mark 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 Hi everyone, here I am again with the next instalment of this sorry saga! And if it seems like I've got this far this quickly, I apologise for a small deception in that the (productive!) events in this and the last post have taken place over the last week or ten days. Firstly, I meant to mention that the scheme I'll be finishing the 'hawk in won't be the kit scheme. However, in the interests of being in line with my two boys' builds, I've decided to stick with 112 Sqn. I mean, you have to love a sharkmouth, don't you? So I'll be doing AK461/A on Xtradecal Sheet X72139: http:// http:// In line with my panel-line reducing wheeze, the wings were carefully assembled and once dry lightly primed (Tamiya acrylic rattle can) and then wet sanded with 1000-grade wet-or-dry. I always use 3M paper, a hang-up from when my late Dad was in the motor body repair business. I spent considerable time on the joints between the upper and lower wings, in particular sanding the trailing edges to get them thinner than as moulded. The under wing-tip joints also need care if a step in the surface is to be avoided. After that, it was time to wake my venerable Badger 200 airbrush from its 25-year slumber, and on with some Vallejo Light Chromate Green: http:// http:// Question: should the wheel bays be this colour or should they be something else, e.g. zinc chromate? While my airbrush was performing sterling work, I also did the interior of the fuselage halves and the cockpit tub. After a little bit of detail painting with the aid of strong magnification and a wash made using a small quantity each of smoke and earth weathering powders from the Humbrol range, mixing the powders with water, I arrived at this: http:// The pilot's seat is a resin casting, and the framework at the top was unsurprisingly quite heavily flashed, which took some deft work with a new No.10A blade. The seat was brushed with Humbrol silver, and the cushion (pilot's headrest) painted in a Tamiya acrylic brown. The seat framework was then touched in with the Vallejo Light Chromate Green - I also did the frame down the back of the seat. Just for fun, of course! The seat belts were from the CMK set as well, and are really rather nice. I used some Tamiya acrylic IJN Grey-Green to represent canvas webbing. The seat was fitted and once the glue was dry I detail painted the control column, undercarriage lever and foot boards, and then gave the tub a wash as above. These were "fixed" with a waft of Tamiya acrylic flat clear from a rattle can. This is the result: http:// http:// As you can see, the IP is also fitted and the gun butts (heavily) glued to the front of the tub hold it in what is hopefully the right place. The gun butts have had a coat of Humbrol Gunmetal and a drybrushing of silver, although they'll be totally invisible! Lastly, as mentioned above, the rear of the fuselage has been joined, leaving the front loose to ease fitting the tub later on. The damage to the fuselage spine has been filled, and my next job will be to sand that back to shape: http:// http:// Hopefully, I'll then be in a position to fit the tub and finish zipping up the fuselage. Question: regarding the scalloped sections on the fuselage spine behind the cockpit, being under the glass (perspex?) panels, would they have been painted interior colour or camouflage? I haven't seen it mentioned either way. Hopefully, more soon! Kind regards, Mark 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 On 12/07/2020 at 15:45, 2996 Victor said: Question: regarding the scalloped sections on the fuselage spine behind the cockpit, being under the glass (perspex?) panels, would they have been painted interior colour or camouflage? I haven't seen it mentioned either way. I hope it's not considered bad form to quote one's own posts! Anyway, today my copy of Valiant Wings Airframe Extra No.9, North Africa Campaign, arrived. It's a very interesting read, with a lot of beautifully reproduced photographs and some excellent colour profiles, along with some inspiring builds. Now I know you shouldn't take a colour profile as gospel without photographic evidence to back it up, but there's one of a 112 Sqn Tomahawk IIb where the scallops are interior green against the desert camo. If anyone knows different, I'd be happy to hear from them. Otherwise, I'll be going with that..... More soon. Kind regards, Mark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Mark, The scallops should be in an exterior finish. There have been a few threads/posts where this has come up, surprised they haven't turned up for you when searching. At the risk of teaching granny to suck eggs, best way to search Britmodeller is to forget the site search function and search from outside the site using your search engine of choice and adding 'Britmodeller' to your search term (apologies if you're already aware of this, but I know some folk aren't!). @Troy Smith might have a better memory than me of where I found the info re P-40 scallops, might even have come from @Dana Bell and his ongoing work with US camouflage and finishing. There's a dim light bulb flickering somewhere that the perspex over the scallops gives a false impression of a different finish underneath which has lead many a profile artist and/or modeller down the wrong path. If at any point today I manage to find the time to have a search or remember where and when I found them, I'll add the links in. Mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi Mark, many thanks for your post! Camo colour seemed more logical than interior, TBH, but I hadn't found any references, so a big "thank you!" is due as I'd have merrily gone on my way...... The in-forum search facility hasn't seemed to bring up any useful results, so I'll follow your advice and search from "outside" and add "Britmodeller" as you suggest. Thanks again and kind regards, Mark PS The Third Man is one of my all-time favourite movies! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi Mark, As always, a photo is your best friend - if you can find one. The color inside the "rear vision tunnel" would be an exterior camouflage color, though which one can be an issue with Tomahawks. On some the two factory-applied exterior colors continued through behind the glazing - poor US renditions of Dark Green and Dark Earth. On other aircraft only one of the colors was used there. Once in British hands, if the camouflage was modified for the desert, the glazing could easily slide out for the repaint, though it rarely was, and the factory camouflage was left unchanged. Anyhow, hope this "non-answer" still proves useful... Cheers, Dana 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said: PS The Third Man is one of my all-time favourite movies! A true classic of post-war British film noir! Since Dana has posted an answer whilst I was searching, you might find this thread useful for the factory images of early P-40's clearly showing the exterior colour under the perspex. Mark. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Dana Bell said: Hi Mark, As always, a photo is your best friend - if you can find one. The color inside the "rear vision tunnel" would be an exterior camouflage color, though which one can be an issue with Tomahawks. On some the two factory-applied exterior colors continued through behind the glazing - poor US renditions of Dark Green and Dark Earth. On other aircraft only one of the colors was used there. Once in British hands, if the camouflage was modified for the desert, the glazing could easily slide out for the repaint, though it rarely was, and the factory camouflage was left unchanged. Anyhow, hope this "non-answer" still proves useful... Cheers, Dana Hi Dana, many thanks for your post, which is definitely not a "non-answer"! My chosen subject is AK461/A of 112 Sqn, and looking at the Xtradecal sheet details, it looks like both colours continued behind the glazing - just my luck! I'll see if I can track down a photograph - presumably there must be at least one to provide a reference for the decal sheet! The next question, then, is were all Tomahawk IIbs received by the RAF in DG/DE? If so, then presumably there is a chance that the panel behind the glazing could still have small patches of DG not overpainted with Mid Stone, although that could only be determined from photographic evidence. Next job is to try and find a photograph......or a different subject! Kind regards, Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Harry Lime said: A true classic of post-war British film noir! Since Dana has posted an answer whilst I was searching, you might find this thread useful for the factory images of early P-40's clearly showing the exterior colour under the perspex. Mark. Hi Mark, many thanks for your post and for the link - that's incredibly helpful, thank you! I think the answer is "it depends", but as @Dana Bell has rightly said, a photograph is the answer (hopefully!). Kind regards, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi Mark, I have to credit Paul Lucas with first noticing this, but AK461/A appears to have fought in its original Temperate Land Scheme colors of faded American Dark Earth and Dark Green over American Sky/Sky Gray. Watch the fuselage color demarcations at the leading edge of the wing for the best indication of this. Also, my multi-generation copy of a wartime photo of the right side of this aircraft seems to indicate Dark Earth behind the glazing. Cheers, Dana 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dana Bell said: Hi Mark, I have to credit Paul Lucas with first noticing this, but AK461/A appears to have fought in its original Temperate Land Scheme colors of faded American Dark Earth and Dark Green over American Sky/Sky Gray. Watch the fuselage color demarcations at the leading edge of the wing for the best indication of this. Also, my multi-generation copy of a wartime photo of the right side of this aircraft seems to indicate Dark Earth behind the glazing. Cheers, Dana Hi Dana, many thanks for this additional info - that's saved a bit of a faux pas! I'm particularly keen on finishing my Tomahawk in desert camo, as its part of a sort of group build with my two young sons where we're all building the same kit, so I guess I'll have to think again as to a subject: I suspect I may go back to the kit's subject of Neville Duke's mount. Thanks again and kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyOD Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 This looks like a good build, going to follow with interest. I'm a fellow comer-backer, a fellow WIP virgin and also as a one-at-a-timer by inclination. Funnily enough your post reminded me that When I was a kid I massacred this Tomahawk (or something very like it - I remember the shark mouth) and definitely a Lysander. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Welcome aboard, @TonyOD, glad to have your company! I'm definitely a one-at-a-timer, although I've been trying desperately to not start my Arma Hurricanes alongside the Tomahawk, especially following @CedB's thread here, as I've got a bit of a desert theme in the back of my mind! I was responsible for quite a few massacres (great term!) as a youngster. Apart from the aforementioned Lysander, I recall an Airfix HS.126 in white camouflage, the paint being so thick that all the detail was obscured, as well as decalling a Matchbox Beaufighter that my Dad had painstakingly built and painted, and putting the upper wing roundels on the underside and vice versa! Hopefully, I'll be able to get some more done to the Tomahawk at the weekend. Kind regards, Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jur Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi Mark, I seem to have missed your thread somehow. You are doing beautiful work on that cockpit! Puts my recent effort to shame. Looking forward to see your progress! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi @Jur, Thanks for your kind words, but it's really down to the quality of the CMK resin bits. To be honest, all I've really done is slap on some paint 🙂 although as I've mentioned, I've had a couple of false starts (massacres!) before getting even this far! Hopefully, some progress will be forthcoming soon. Kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyOD Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, 2996 Victor said: the paint being so thick that all the detail was obscured I don't think I ever got as far as paint when I was a lad! It's only quite recently that I discovered the benefits of thinning paints. Before that, if I couldn't stand a brush upright in it, it wasn't going on my model. 😆 I don't think Arma was around last time I was modelling. they seem to offer some very nice kits at some very fair prices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, TonyOD said: Before that, if I couldn't stand a brush upright in it, it wasn't going on my model. 😆 Do you remember those Airfix tinlets, taller and narrower than the Humbrol ones? Every time I went to use one, the paint had separated and all the pigment was a solid mass in the bottom. As a child, I had an old, bent screwdriver, donated by my Dad, for opening my tinlets and trying to stir the contents. Happy days 🙂 54 minutes ago, TonyOD said: I don't think Arma was around last time I was modelling. they seem to offer some very nice kits at some very fair prices. As far as I know, Arma are relative newcomers, but having read reviews and followed threads, their products seem to be very well thought of. Certainly, the Hurricane IIc kits I've got are excellent, and not too pricey. Kind regards, Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyOD Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said: Do you remember those Airfix tinlets, taller and narrower than the Humbrol ones? I don't, actually. Like I said i didn't trouble myself with paints. There used to be a sports shop in Bradford (where I grew up) called Carters, the top floor was all toys and model kits and I used to spend my birthday money there. I certainly remember a Wellington and a Mustang as well as the Lysander I mentioned, but I never painted any of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Bit late Mark but here now and great to see you back aircraft modelling That cockpit looks great and your painting is superb - love it! Looking forward to more posts… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 hours ago, CedB said: Bit late Mark but here now and great to see you back aircraft modelling That cockpit looks great and your painting is superb - love it! Looking forward to more posts… Hi Ced! welcome along, and many thanks for your kind words - coming from you that's high praise indeed I'm hoping to make some good progress this weekend, although I think the weather may be fine, in which case She Who Smiles Indulgently At My Hobbies (SWSIAMH) may want to garden (shudders!). With kind regards, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 Well, friends, I've got away with not doing any gardening this weekend (result!). Unfortunately, yesterday turned out to be a not very productive day in that all I achieved was to sand the filler on the fuselage spine and spray on a witness coat of light chromate green. Today I sanded back the witness coat, worn 1000-grade used wet with a speck of soap (the soap stops the paper clogging), an lo! I've over sanded the filler filler 🙁 so had to apply a little more, which is now drying. In the meantime, I've been looking at my Arma Hurricanes again 🙂. As far as the cockpit interior is concerned, I understand from @CedB's thread and various posts by @Troy Smith and others that Hurricane interiors were painted all aluminium except for the IP (black) and sidewalls and seat bulkhead (aircraft grey-green)? Incidentally, I've got the Eduard detail set, which includes pre-printed sidewalls. However, the green seems quite a bit bluer than what seems to be the "typical" interior colour. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said: In the meantime, I've been looking at my Arma Hurricanes again 🙂. As far as the cockpit interior is concerned, I understand from @CedB's thread and various posts by @Troy Smith and others that Hurricane interiors were painted all aluminium except for the IP (black) and sidewalls and seat bulkhead (aircraft grey-green)? Up to the eight Hawker production batch. Colour images of HW189 show aluminium painted legs, pics of KX131 show a all grey green cockpit and painted uc legs. The exception are the 300 built by Austin Motors at Longbridge, interiors are all grey green, as there is film of Hurricane production, its up on youtube, nearly all these went to Russia though. 1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said: ncidentally, I've got the Eduard detail set, which includes pre-printed sidewalls. However, the green seems quite a bit bluer than what seems to be the "typical" interior colour. Any thoughts? Eduard can't match colours. Noted problem on many sets! Sadly they don't seem to acknowledge this, let alone fix it, they don't like admitting these errors... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Troy Smith said: Up to the eight Hawker production batch. Colour images of HW189 show aluminium painted legs, pics of KX131 show a all grey green cockpit and painted uc legs. The exception are the 300 built by Austin Motors at Longbridge, interiors are all grey green, as there is film of Hurricane production, its up on youtube, nearly all these went to Russia though. Hi @Troy Smith, many thanks for clarifying that - I've read so many build threads that my head is spinning with what should be and what shouldn't be! Forgive me, but I don't have the info, would the batches up to and including the eighth have included the Mk.IId production? And..... 1 hour ago, Troy Smith said: Eduard can't match colours. Noted problem on many sets! Sadly they don't seem to acknowledge this, let alone fix it, they don't like admitting these errors... .....oh, dear! Such a shame as the pre-printed sidewalls are really very nice indeed 🙁 I was planning on using Vallejo 71.126 IDF/IAF Green, which I think was recommended somewhere on @CedB's Hurricane Trio thread. Maybe I'll have to try to carefully repaint them around the printed detail.....or just spray them and box on! Kind regards, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 49 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said: Forgive me, but I don't have the info, would the batches up to and including the eighth have included the Mk.IId production? And..... This gives production batches http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM Its pretty simple, HW*** is seventh, KX*** is eighth, the sequence is alphabetical. See the link. IId's are mixed into various batches. From memory the earliest II d is a a BP***, latest is KX*** There were only 300 IId made, they got replaced by the Mk.IV which were more useful, though only about 600 of those were made. I have the Air Britain books, which I bought as they do list the sub variant. Any other questions, ask away. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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