YA-7D Edwards AFB Grey and White scheme

[modelling minion]

Hi all, thinking of making a start on a YA-7D based at Edwards AFB and painted in a grey and white scheme.

Would I be correct in thinking that the grey would be FS 36473?

The aircraft would be similar to this one;  https://www.airhistory.net/photo/39412/67-14583/14583

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Craig.

[Red Dot]

hi Craig,

 

Surely FS36440 Light Gull Gray as the early USAF Corsairs were US Navy variants weren't they?

 

Should be an interesting build

Andy

[scotthldr]

I would imagine and certainly looks like 36473 ADC Grey. The USAF version were D and K’s, Navy examples were A/B and E’s. 36440 has a Brownish hue to it.

[modelling minion]

1 hour ago, Red Dot said:

hi Craig,

 

Surely FS36440 Light Gull Gray as the early USAF Corsairs were US Navy variants weren't they?

 

Should be an interesting build

Andy

Technically they were designated YA-7D's even though the really early ones had the USN style of refueling probes, if I remember rightly the first 3 of them didn't have the D's TF-41 (Rolls Royce Spey) engines either but they were built for the USAF not the USN and I think the grey in the pics is too dark for Light Gull Grey.

37 minutes ago, scotthldr said:

I would imagine and certainly looks like 36473 ADC Grey. The USAF version were D and K’s, Navy examples were A/B and E’s. 36440 has a Brownish hue to it.

Thats what I was thinking.

[Red Dot]

Not sure Craig as the picture colour is very polarised, and would therefore show up more 'pure' and  darker. Where is Sven when you need him?

 

Andy

[iainpeden]

Looks like Humbrol 64 to me - back in the day the go to paint for anything light/medium grey (or gray).

[CT7567]

My understanding is that this is one of several YA-7Ds that was retained at Edwards for various test programs well after the initial work-up of the type for USAF service.  Note the "Fly By Light" program title on the fuselage side (other photos of 67-14583 show it with "Digitac" titles). 

 

I found this photo which shows several of that test batch in what appears to be the same gray over white scheme:

YA-7D group at Edwards AFB

 

I agree with others that the gray color appears much too "blue" to be 36440 Light Gull Gray, and matches well with 16473 (which in this era would have been commonly used as "COIN gray").

 

That said, in the OP's picture the rudder and a distinct patch of fuselage below the cockpit look suspiciously like a different, warmer gray, similar to FS36440.  Since LGG isn't an Air Force color it *might* be that the test batch was originally painted in the same colors as Navy Corsairs, then the upper gray was (mostly) repainted in the closest equivalent from standard paint stocks.

 

67-14583 (Digitac)

 

Wonder if @Old Viper Tester can offer any insight?

[scotthldr]

Although the rudder looks to be a different shade of Grey, I suspect that is an illusion due to it being defected from the main tailplane.  I notice in the picture above the a/c is overall gloss finish so 16473 will be correct.

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=36473+36440

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by scotthldr

[modelling minion]

1 hour ago, Red Dot said:

Where is Sven when you need him?

 

27 minutes ago, CT7567 said:

 

Wonder if @Old Viper Tester can offer any insight?

Any input from Sven would be really welcome.

He has posted some pics of his own of these aircraft and to me the grey is again much more likely to be 16473 or the matt version of it. I know that some of these aircraft were kept in this scheme for years before repainting in either SEA colours or the white/international orange scheme that we all associate with Edwards.

[Old Viper Tester]

19 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Any input from Sven would be really welcome.

I don't know how much help I will be. I always assumed that the YA-7Ds were in the US Navy Light Gull Grey and white scheme. This because the USAF had not settled on the SEA pattern when these birds were put on contract, so just like early F-4Bs they would have been in the USN scheme. Now, looking at photos, the USAF birds do look a little lighter or "brighter" to me compared to the USN jets. Here are some more recent and higher resolution scans along with a couple of A-7Bs that (to me) definitely look like they have different shades of grey:

 

Note the difference between the NKC-135A and the SLUFF. The NKC-135 should be FS 16473 Aircraft Grey. '582 is the only one retrofitted with the boom refueling assembly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The USAF birds are all photographed about ten years after they were originally delivered, so I would imagine they have been through Programmed Depot Maintenance at an Air Logistics Center and have been repainted once.

 

Nothing like 35+ year old images to confuse the issue.

 

Hope this helps in some way,

Sven

 

[modelling minion]

3 hours ago, Old Viper Tester said:

Hope this helps in some way,

Sven

Yes, and no.

They really are great pics Sven, and very inspiring to make me want to build one of them so thank you for posting them here, and for answering the call for help.

I agree that the YA-7D  in the top pic does seem to be a different colour to the NKC-135 behind I wonder if that could be down to the different orientation of the aircraft to the sun and the fact that the NKC-135 is highly polished where the YA-7D looks to be almost matt finished.

In some of the pics It does look very like Light Gull Grey but then compared to the USN A-7B's it looks different, so the end result seems to be that I'm not sure, which is where I started out!!

At least nobody can prove me wrong whichever way I decide to go.

 

Thanks for helping Sven, and for the great pictures.

 

Craig.

[scotthldr]

22 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

 

I agree that the YA-7D  in the top pic does seem to be a different colour to the NKC-135 behind I wonder if that could be down to the different orientation of the aircraft to the sun and the fact that the NKC-135 is highly polished where the YA-7D looks to be almost matt finished.

 

That's exactly the reason, I can't see anything to make me think it's a different colour.

 

 

[modelling minion]

I have just found a picture of 582 at an airshow in Dulles in 1969 which would have been straight after she was built and guess what scheme she's wearing? 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisk48/6529424247

 

Thats right SEA, so there is no way she was delivered in USN colours. To me that makes it almost certain that whilst at Edwards she (and the other YA-7D's) were painted in 36473, she also seems to have been built with the boom receptacle too, could be the first one to full A-7D specs.

 

[Red Dot]

There you go then. Get on with it!

 

Andy

[Old Viper Tester]

16 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Thats right SEA, so there is no way she was delivered in USN colours.

Now that is interesting! Maybe they went to the grey/white because they were being used for spin/recovery training. The red panels and the black attitude quadrangle markings would certainly have more contrast with the grey/white.

 

[modelling minion]

16 minutes ago, Red Dot said:

There you go then. Get on with it!

 

Andy

Exactly the kind of response I would expect from you, got to get at least one more finished before I start the A-7, funnily enough it's also based on Sven's excellent pictures.

4 minutes ago, Old Viper Tester said:

Now that is interesting! Maybe they went to the grey/white because they were being used for spin/recovery training. The red panels and the black attitude quadrangle markings would certainly have more contrast with the grey/white.

 

That would make a lot of sense and was possibly an interim scheme brought in before the well known white/international orange one.

Thanks for your input Sven and thanks for posting such great pictures.

 

Craig.

[Red Dot]

2 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Exactly the kind of response I would expect from you, got to get at least one more finished before I start the A-7, funnily enough it's also based on Sven's excellent pictures.

That would make a lot of sense and was possibly an interim scheme brought in before the well known white/international orange one.

Thanks for your input Sven and thanks for posting such great pictures.

 

Craig.

😀 always aim to please!

 

I bet you don't finish the earlier one, as I have the seat 😉

 

Andy

[modelling minion]

45 minutes ago, Red Dot said:

as I have the seat

Indeed you do, I will need to come over to corona town and collect it from you soon.

[Red Dot]

EXCUSE ME!!

 

Just outside Corona Town, if you don't mind!

and you can pay me for it at the same time 😉