Italeri Mania, it's WAH-64 and AW-101 time's up

[perdu]

Michelangelo my a-------------- --- --- -- -- - - -  - ---- - - - -  .

 

I hereby declare that idea dead!

 

I am calling desperately for guidance from my fellow scratchbuilding, estimating, fettling fellows here.

 

I made the frame pieces to suit the basic hoist brackets on AW101s which are the same on the Royal Navy Merlins as they are for the Norwegian spec ones.

 

Here is a view of the relevant frames in a nice shot of an RN Merlin, the Norwegian hoist is different but to me it seems to share the actual swinging brackets as this one but the pictures of the white ones all seem to have the brackets slightly out of sight behind the machinery.

 

 

Taken gratefully from pictures on the internet, unknown photographer to whom I am eternally grateful.

 

The frames are made up of two totally different similar units, front and back and are exquisite forgings with inbuilt webs equally spaced inside the basic arm.

 

I was prepared to 'run' with the arms I made until I took another look.

 

 

Mine has classic scale creep inbuilt and are total junk, 10% oversize at the least.

 

Would someone kindly estimate for me the arm basic dimensions and share them with me please?

 

I have made my own new guesstimates, I would like your guesses before I begin carving the arms from new pieces of polystyrene.

 

Please, pretty please.

 

(not a description of me I guarantee) 

[Terry1954]

Hmmm. I would say those arms are about half the depth of the line taken between the bottom of the engine/exhaust housing, to the line running across the top of the main side door.

 

This picture shows it well

 

https://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/modelbuilds/AW101-08.jpg

 

So I'm reckoning around 6 inches deep maybe?

 

Just a guess!

 

Terry

[Terry1954]

BTW, hat link is part of a build article on the Merlin

 

https://www.jeffhead.com/modelbuilds/AW101.htm

 

Terry

[perdu]

Thanks for that link Terry, when I have a little more time I will peruse it closely

 

Looks nice

 

 

Anyway, it jogged my memory

 

I have this don't I?

 

 

Easy enough to take a little snap huh

 

Well not so easy but it measures up at

 

2.5 mm

 

Tomorrow as they say, is another day, thanks for jogging my memory T

 

I can see there is much to do.

 

[bigbadbadge]

This is progressing well, looks great with all your extra work.   

Chris 

[CedB]

Nice winches Bill - that 'heat the end and flatten it' bit is masterful  

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Nice work, Bill.  
 

By the way, your “hoist/winch” conundrum: officially (like, Aircrew Manual etc.) it is a “rescue hoist”.  But EVERYONE  calls it a “winch”, including aircrew when using it - like, say, the Observer in his patter to the pilots during a sortie.  A winching sortie, that is; a “hoisting sortie” just sounds silly or Jacob Rees-Moggish (much the same thing).

 

You are totally safe just calling it a winch

[perdu]

Winch it is, thanks Crisp

[perdu]

Winch worx!

 

I have been mildly entertained by these brackets

 

 

First was the large version at the back, carved from moderately oversized Evergreen channel

 

OCD won and it got relegated whilst I tried the good old model aircraft craft of pins and longerons from 0.020" rod

 

This was better but fell down when trying to keep flexible rodding still ready to stick on other little bits, never a happy choice

 

 

So I tried a refined version of the type one frame

 

Twenty thou Evergreen strip, (I wonder if I rely too much on that?) cut to two and a half mm wide

 

Then drilled and carved

 

And carved some more

 

Now can you see this?

 

 

Tucked away under the starboard engine efflux in a fetching grey, so last season I am sure you will all agree, is the hydraulic services duct which sits at the forward end of the winch bracket.

 

This marks the spot where the hydraulic pipes will vanish into the fuselage once the mounting bracket is fitted

 

And I have added the camera frame pivot point on the port side, a nasty piece of wire works so it might yet have to go

 

Best seen by looking at the shadow of the flash on the bench, the grey plastic has hidden under the actual wire frame

 

Ah well, real life beckons...

 

[giemme]

Impressive micro-modelling, Bill!  

 

Ciao

[Hamden]

4 hours ago, giemme said:

Impressive micro-modelling, Bill!  

 

Ciao

Seconded 

 

  Roger

[perdu]

I crave your indulgence gentlemen and ladies in passing.

 

Can you tell me if this will do please.

 

I mean will this ---

 

be satisfactorily depicted by...

 

 

Or have I allowed scale creep again?

 

Here is the beginnings of this potential nightmare, a channel mounted on Catalina Sprue (I know H but...) and the arms/legs of the winch bracket added to test the sizes

 

 

Various little brackets and wibbles to be added before the two main component parts get their contrasting paint jobs.

 

Glossy white plays matt, very matt black.

 

I hope to paint them off the hubschrauber rather than add to the awkwardidity of the forthcoming paint job.

 

In the other section of the werks the Apache now has engines and the main rotor gearbox.

 

 

 

 

On we go.

[hendie]

29 minutes ago, perdu said:

I mean will this ---

<snip>

 

be satisfactorily depicted by...

 

 

 

Nope.! Not at all.  

 

It is AMAZINGLY more than satisfactory from where I'm sitting.  Excellent scrimshaw work Bill. 

 

 

 

[giemme]

27 minutes ago, perdu said:

Or have I allowed scale creep again?

It may look a tad oversized, but I'm with hendie, excellent rendition.

 

 

In addition, that is a very close up pic, it makes all look bigger (oh hey!). I'd say you keep it like that - or try a quick burst of paint on it, that might change the perception too; you know what, try also taking the pic from a greater distance and zoom in, it should better represent the proportions, and be more like if you look at it "in the flesh"

 

Ciao

[perdu]

I know I am beginning to go wrong-headed when I feel like making it again only shorter.

 

Really?

 

Am I so damned sad?

 

It is only Gator's Gripped to the piece of sprue for assembly purposes, I might try GGing it to the fuselage for another butcher's.

 

I know Giorgio will know what that means so I won't offer a translate. 

[Terry1954]

It looks splendidly good but might need to see it up against the mothership?

 

Terry

[perdu]

1 hour ago, Terry1954 said:

need to see it up against the mothership

Agreed

 

About ten per-cent too long IMO

 

The next pair need to be daintier whilst not falling apart

 

The caboodle fell apart when I was raising it off the stem it was assembled on but the front one which is the important one should  stop half way across the front winch, not three quarters over it

 

Oh well now I have dimensions, always a plus in scratch builds.

 

[CedB]

Looked good to me Bill but hey, what do I know…  

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

14 hours ago, perdu said:

I crave your indulgence gentlemen and ladies in passing.

 

Can you tell me if this will do please.

 

I mean will this ---

 

be satisfactorily depicted by...

 

 

I was / am with them others.  But, though the winch bracket looks excellent, that thin white thing doesn’t look a bit like a helicopter of any description.  

[perdu]

5 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I was / am with them others.  But, though the winch bracket looks excellent, that thin white thing doesn’t look a bit like a helicopter of any description.  

Riiiight

You think I have the dimensions off a bit there too then?

 

Gottit, off to give that some serious contemplation then.

 

Laters

 

 

 

 

Well in the mean time the ten-per-cent-cut is in

 

 

The shorter ones are about right although with the AW-999 Slimcopter having been rumbled by Crisp I have to find other ways for test and assembly.

 

New pegs on flat benches mayhap?

 

 

The stowage peg assembled here and GG trying not to laugh at my recent efforts.

When it dries (if) I can add greeblies by appointment to the winchery  and test sit it on the fuselage over the starboard door.

 

Doors ah yes that reminds me, I have to make a port upper door to join the lower step attached one left over from my HM-3 Naval build.

 

The very generous Richard sent me a spare lower one with added etch to make a beautiful door, I will be making a new upper on to pair with it, port side that is.

[perdu]

OK, old pegs...

[perdu]

Back to the Apache whilst I get my bits organised for the Merlin

 

Extra bits for part of the defensive suite get added from white stuff, always look interesting for a few minutes

 

Now I have to begin carving plasticard laminate to make the extra lumps and gubbinses

 

 

At this point I decided to avoid the gubbinses entirely and have a butchers at the rocket pods

 

Very smartly packaged

 

 

But frankly very disappointing when opened

 

 

The nose ring is over prominent according to the photos of the real CVR-7s I have seen.

 

But that doesn't matter because of the state of the rear tubes.

 

That gurt cavity on there should have been picked up in any rudimentary inspection after taking the castings out of the mould

 

Disappointed although of course I can fix it...

 

 

 

 

[Hamden]

 

Sorry to see the state of your rocket pods Bill but I'm sure you will overcome!

 

          Roger

[perdu]

Rocket pods back burner for a minute (or several) cos the results are in for the black back winch

 

 

and down

 

 

Poor perspective through the simple lens of the digital camera makes it look askew

 

It bain't askew.

 

 

I now need to 'populate' the underbelly and the antenna fit and we can get off to the paintshop for some Tamiya X-2 and X-1.

 

"Everything looks worse in black and white."

Not to me Mr P. Simon

[The Spadgent]

On 9/18/2020 at 9:04 AM, perdu said:

Johnny this do?

Yes. Yes that’s amazing as are the winch arms you are making. So much skill and detail. It’s a joy to behold sir. 👌