Arjan Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) I wonder what material was used for the anti shrapnel padding (splinter mattresses) seen on WWII Royal Navy vessels such as MTB's ? I wonder if the guard around the Oerlikon on MTB 245 was just a canvas spray screen or anti shrapnel padding ? Another pic of MTB 245 or a sister boat : Thanks in advance. edit: Oops I posted this topic in the wrong section (WW1 instead of WWII). Perhaps the moderator could correct this mistake. Arjan Edited July 9, 2020 by Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I have no knowledge either way, but based on visual appearance alone I would suggest that the screen on the forward gun on 245 was simply a canvas spray shield. It seems too taught compared to the baggy cushion-like appearance of the anti-splinter padding. Is this the Free French Flotilla? Will you model one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Thanks Lewis, to me it also looked more like a spray shield but I'm still not quite sure. No I'm not going to model one, someone on the Coastal Forces Veterans site was looking for pics of MTB 245 : http://cfv.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36 Regards, Arjan Edited July 9, 2020 by Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I am not a member of CFV forum so I hope you don’t mind if I continue here. I notice in the second photo you posted on CFV that the boat in the foreground has the rocket flare launcher at a lower elevation than is usually seen. I had understood that these were set at a fixed elevation and could not be adjusted, so it is curious to see this image Edit: I am not sure that I have previously seen the Roderick Timms website so many thanks for a further useful link 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 You may be right about the angle of the flare launcher, the angle here is definitely lower. Some years ago I tried to get some info on the flares : http://cfv.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=626 To return to the splinter padding, it's sometimes really difficult to tell whether or not any padding is present. Seems to be present here : AN EMPIRE "PARTY": BRITISH MGB'S ROUT E-BOATS. LOWESTOFT, IN THE EARLY HOURS OF 8 MARCH 1943, MOTOR GUNBOATS OF THE ROYAL NAVY ENGAGED A GROUP OF E BOATS IN THE NORTH SEA. ONE OF THE E-BOATS WAS DESTROYED, THE OTHERS FLED. AMONG OFFICERS WHO TOOK PART IN THE ACTION WERE MEN FROM BRITAIN, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND AND CANADA.. © IWM (A 14910) IWM Non Commercial License Hard to be sure here : VOSPER MTB AT SPEED. 26 JULY 1944, AT HMS BEEHIVE.. © IWM (A 24906) IWM Non Commercial License Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I think the absence of the diagonal stitching on the 238 image is the telltale that it is not splinter padding. I recall that the splinter mattresses contained kapok fibres and so without the stitching the kapok would all fall to the bottom of the mattress. Much like a down pillow. I do not have a source for this so consider it conjecture. Two more nice images! You do have a knack for finding them. I have been using your posts on the PT forum as a library of useful images of the channel PTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 Thanks Lewis, I simply love WWII period pics. Especially those taken in locations I know well. This often allows me to piece together some then&now photos. This is as close to travelling in time as I can get 🙂. Regards, Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I think that post on CFV covers everything I think I’ve read on the flares. There is brief vague mention of them in Peter Scott’s Battle of the Narrow Seas, which does want for technical detail in many regards Interesting to see the splinter mattresses in use on other vessels, this may also be one of those times where once you’ve had it pointed out you see it everywhere. I must look out in future. Interestingly overlaying aramid ballistic blankets is still a current practice to quickly up armour soft skin vehicles. I say current but perhaps recent is more accurate as fortunately most users have recognised the threat and procured truly armoured vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 09/07/2020 at 12:13, FlyingSpanner said: I am not sure that I have previously seen the Roderick Timms website so many thanks for a further useful link 👍 I began to look through these images and found treasure in the first few. You have already posted a cropped version of this image above of course, but seeing the full version drew my eye I don’t think I have seen before or heard reference to a 72’6 Vosper with twin Oerlikons front and rear. I will check through the other photos in case the boat can be identified in other images, the windscreen about the wind deflector along with the weapons fit should make it easy to spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 09/07/2020 at 07:28, Arjan said: Another pic of MTB 245 or a sister boat : Looking again at that upper photo, I see that 83 has the same screen around the forward gun, and also has the carley float on the port side of the charthouse/bridge (so may be the boat marked in the second image). Note also that 83’s bridge seems modified, extended aft and squared off. There may also be a bulkhead at the rear of the bridge like a US built Vosper, it’s hard to be sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) The Vosper with the twin Oerlikon on the foredeck is probably the same as this one (if you look closely you can see two barrels) : It may be MTB 349 (she also has a clear wind screen), unfortunately the crew members make identification of the forward Oerlikon impossible : MTB 83 indeed shares some of MTB 245's features. I also get the impression both MTB 83 and MTB 233 had the additonal bridge bulkhead with door. The Lambert/Ross Coastal Forces book does not seem to contain drawings showing these doors ? Perhaps these bulkheads and doors were a late update. Early Annapolis Vospers didn't have them but the final batch did. Regards, Arjan Edited July 10, 2020 by Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I’m not sure that either of those boats are the same one. The upper image (unknown boat) doesn’t appear to have the dark shade (probably blue B15) charthouse roof. Also 349 doesn’t appear to have the unit crest or kill marking that the twin Oerlikon boat has on the front face of the wind deflector. I have a vague notion that the mystery twin Oerlikon boat might be numbered 37x, which would make it an Annapolis built boat I think. If so there should be no scuttles? It’s hard to see but it looks like there might not be any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, FlyingSpanner said: I have a vague notion that the mystery twin Oerlikon boat might be numbered 37x, which would make it an Annapolis built boat I think. If so there should be no scuttles? It’s hard to see but it looks like there might not be any No, all lend lease Vospers (Annapolis, Jacob's, Herreshoff etc.) were exclusively used in the Med and Adriatic. edit: I forgot to add that some were also used by the Indian Navy for a short period of time (at Madras and Vizagapatam). Edited July 10, 2020 by Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Right, it’s not 37x then do you concur on the other points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Yes, you're quite right Lewis. Also MTB 349 doesn't have the life rings on top of the pilot house. I think I may have found the answer to the screen/padding question regarding MTB 245 and probably MTB 83 as well. It looks like it may be a matter of both, splinter mattresses inside and a spray cover on the outer side (pic doesn't show a Vosper) : Regards, Arjan Edited July 11, 2020 by Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Excellent find! Are you certain that this is not a Vosper? The angles of the face of the charthouse and the short cowl vents immediately forward look Vosper-esq 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Yes I'm sure it's not a Vosper but I can't tell you what it is. I'm not familiar with the anatomy of Motor Launches and Fairmiles because I have never built one . It's usually only after having built a model that I can identify a vessel or parts of it in pics. edit: I think you are right after all, the fore deck does look rather small 🙂. Edited July 11, 2020 by Arjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingSpanner Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Yes, building a model, especially one which varies from the subject the kit intended, certainly does familiarise one with the details of the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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