yet another Ferrari 1/8th F40 Engine

[nick]

1 minute ago, dbostream said:

Look forward to the finished engine. Then you just have to design and print the rest of the car.  

To paraphrase jaws.. we’re going to need a bigger printer 

[Bozothenutter]

2 hours ago, nick said:

To paraphrase jaws.. we’re going to need a bigger printer 

Don't tempt him!

[nick]

Decided to actually make (like properly make, out of stuff, cut-up, joined together, you know like we used to make stuff!) a better stand

 

 

quite nostalgic really

 

also put a bit of a video together

 

 

 

 

[albergman]

Just fabulous work Nick.   Nice of you to give a nod to "the way we were" and actually MAKE something.  😁

 

So is this an actual filmed (using a camera) work or something that Fusion lets you do?    The way the parts lift off makes me think this is coming out of Fusion ... not that it matters.   Just curious.   I see the wheels seemed to be turning so maybe it is a "real" film.   Also, are there now 2 finished engines or is this all smoke and mirror stuff too?

 

PS what's a "chitubox"? (at 24 seconds in).

 

Frank

 

 

[nick]

43 minutes ago, albergman said:

Just fabulous work Nick.   Nice of you to give a nod to "the way we were" and actually MAKE something.  😁

 

So is this an actual filmed (using a camera) work or something that Fusion lets you do?    The way the parts lift off makes me think this is coming out of Fusion ... not that it matters.   Just curious.   I see the wheels seemed to be turning so maybe it is a "real" film.   Also, are there now 2 finished engines or is this all smoke and mirror stuff too?

 

PS what's a "chitubox"? (at 24 seconds in).

 

Frank

 

 

Hi Frank the first part is the built in animator in fusion 360, it lets you move stuff around as well as explode and fade in and out components. 
 

chitubox is a slicer.
 

When you have drawn your 3D object in order to print it you need to carve it up into thousands of ‘slices’ like salami. Each layer in this case is 30microns thick and is what gets sent to the printer, so send layer 1, cure for 8 seconds or so, lift the build plate 30 microns and repeat. Eventually you get your object. 
 

all 3D printers use some form of slicer as they all work in layers like this. 
 

smoke and mirrors, or photoshop more accurately, still just one finished engine. 
 

although I’m starting another to test my ‘production process’

 

regards

 

Nick

[albergman]

Thanks for the explanation.    30 microns!!   Wow, that's tiny.   No wonder you can get the details you have.   

 

Production process huh?    Wishing you great success.   

[NickD]

Nick,

 

You've really opened my eyes about what can be achieved with the requisite skill.

 

Now just need the skill

 

Thanks for sharing

 

Nick

[maybach_man]

awsome build... there is quite alot of detailed info on one of the Build-thread.com threads regarding an F40 LM

[nick]

1 hour ago, maybach_man said:

awsome build... there is quite alot of detailed info on one of the Build-thread.com threads regarding an F40 LM

Thanks, your link doesn’t seem to work?

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Pascal]

There you go : http://build-threads.com/build-threads/ferrari-f40-lm-restoration/

 

PS : Would be nice to get an answer to the PM's I send you...

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

[Pouln]

That has been a very extensive restoration. Thanks for sharing the link, Pascal

[nick]

Well folks after a very long lay-off, I have some exciting news. 
 

I now have the Holy Grail of full access to a disassembled Ferrari F40 engine. I already have around 100 images of areas I have never seen before and was unable to get data for. I also have dimensions and geometry for key areas. 
 

it’s highlighted errors in my block geometry that I suspected, so I’m literally going back to the drawing board, abandoning all the dubious dimensions obtained from the Pocher lump and redrawing everything at 1:1 scale. This will enable me to print the engine at scales of my choice in future.  
 

if there is sufficient interest, I am considering producing a full engine kit now I can offer an accurate, true scale version rather than my guesswork. 
 

this could be displayed on its own, or to complement existing F40 models. I DON’T EXPECT IT TO FIT THE POCHER as I’m sure compromises were made with their version. 
 

that said, it may be possible to produce a compromised block and top end (plenums, valve covers, throttle bodies, injection etc) that will fit between the Pocher cam train boxes and gearbox, which won’t be truly accurate, but would fit and offer a properly detailed version of the elements visible when fitted in the car. 
 

apologies to anyone I haven’t responded to, I’ve been rather occupied elsewhere over the past months, but it looks like I will be turning my attention back to this for a while now I have this amazing opportunity!

 

watch this space!

 

Nick

[albergman]

Wonderful news Nick!    I'm sure you'll have lots of enthusiasts lining up for your output.   I have to thank you again for encouraging me to pursue this Fusion 360/3Dprinting adventure.   I referred to that sheet of basic instructions you wrote out for me  and soon found I was drawing pretty nice parts.    Eventually I decided I wanted to build yet another steam locomotive but was hesitating at having to hand-fabricate all the motion again as that's about 6 months work.   So I thought maybe I'll see if I can design them for printing and get my local library to make them as they have 3D printers.   Learned enough about Fusion to get those parts made and 3 weeks ago I decided to buy my own printer ... a filament one (BiQu B1).    My skills with Fusion improved to the point where I decided to print the entire locomotive!    I now have everything printed and have been assembling it and it's all thanks to you!

 

Frank

[nick]

11 minutes ago, albergman said:

Wonderful news Nick!    I'm sure you'll have lots of enthusiasts lining up for your output.   I have to thank you again for encouraging me to pursue this Fusion 360/3Dprinting adventure.   I referred to that sheet of basic instructions you wrote out for me  and soon found I was drawing pretty nice parts.    Eventually I decided I wanted to build yet another steam locomotive but was hesitating at having to hand-fabricate all the motion again as that's about 6 months work.   So I thought maybe I'll see if I can design them for printing and get my local library to make them as they have 3D printers.   Learned enough about Fusion to get those parts made and 3 weeks ago I decided to buy my own printer ... a filament one (BiQu B1).    My skills with Fusion improved to the point where I decided to print the entire locomotive!    I now have everything printed and have been assembling it and it's all thanks to you!

 

Frank

Frank, that’s really great! I’m glad you cracked it in the end with fusion 360. And your loco drawings are looking really good. 
 

I Still need to talk you into a proper resin printer though! So you can say goodbye to stripy prints and filling and sanding.
 

Can’t remember when we last spoke, but I have an automated washer/curer to match my printer now and it makes all the difference as the cleanup was the horrific, smelly, messy, toxic bit. All that goes away with this, in my case Elegoo Mars printer plus Elegoo Mercury cleaner/curer. all my FDM machines are gathering dust since I got this. 
 

send me one of your .stl files and I’ll print it in resin for you to see how it comes out. 
 

I’ll tell you the story about my Ferrari guy sometime, it will be quite something if we pull it off, my model is only half of what we are planning.

 

great talking to you anyway.

 

regards

 

Nick

[albergman]

12 hours ago, nick said:

Frank, that’s really great! I’m glad you cracked it in the end with fusion 360. And your loco drawings are looking really good. 
 

I Still need to talk you into a proper resin printer though! So you can say goodbye to stripy prints and filling and sanding.
 

Can’t remember when we last spoke, but I have an automated washer/curer to match my printer now and it makes all the difference as the cleanup was the horrific, smelly, messy, toxic bit. All that goes away with this, in my case Elegoo Mars printer plus Elegoo Mercury cleaner/curer. all my FDM machines are gathering dust since I got this. 
 

send me one of your .stl files and I’ll print it in resin for you to see how it comes out. 
 

I’ll tell you the story about my Ferrari guy sometime, it will be quite something if we pull it off, my model is only half of what we are planning.

 

great talking to you anyway.

 

regards

 

Nick

I have no doubts that resin is the superior way to go Nick but I couldn't possibly bring that into my house.   I have no basement or attic or even a garage so it's a non-starter.   My FDM will do me just fine for what I have in mind and it resides in a cabinet in the bedroom and can run all night without disturbing us.   Actually I don't see myself doing much more in the modelling line with it after the loco but I have quite a few ideas for things around the house.    Truth be told  I get more enjoyment just playing with Fusion than printing LOL!

 

Best of luck with your own plans.

[nick]

19 hours ago, albergman said:

I have no doubts that resin is the superior way to go Nick but I couldn't possibly bring that into my house.   I have no basement or attic or even a garage so it's a non-starter.   My FDM will do me just fine for what I have in mind and it resides in a cabinet in the bedroom and can run all night without disturbing us.   Actually I don't see myself doing much more in the modelling line with it after the loco but I have quite a few ideas for things around the house.    Truth be told  I get more enjoyment just playing with Fusion than printing LOL!

 

Best of luck with your own plans.

Understand. 
 

theres quite a few forums for resin printing, so it’s possible there’s someone local to you that would be willing to print for you for a small cost above materials (rather than a commercial outfit) 

 

one small observation might be add chamfers to some of 90 angled degree parts, if you don’t, that can make them prone to snapping. It’s dead easy in fusion and can be done automatically for continuous (chained) unions. 

[nick]

In a literal case of back to the drawing board, here is the all-new F-40 Block.

 

Although it may look the same as before, this is dimensionally accurate and taken from measurements and hundreds of photos of a disassembled F40 engine I now how access to, so rather than it being guessed on a wing and a prayer like the last one, this should be correct.

 

It should be fairly quick to draw the rest now as I've done it before and I have a true base to work from now.

 

 

Thanks for looking

 

Nick

 

 

 

[Codger]

Nick,

At the top of each bank on inboard side are three nearly rectangular openings which otherwise would resemble intake ports in a head casting. But these are in the block casting. I can only guess that they are for fastener access for through-head bolts. But that seems not to make sense since studs all the way into the block to retain the heads would be much stronger.

Can you explain please?

[nick]

51 minutes ago, Codger said:

Nick,

At the top of each bank on inboard side are three nearly rectangular openings which otherwise would resemble intake ports in a head casting. But these are in the block casting. I can only guess that they are for fastener access for through-head bolts. But that seems not to make sense since studs all the way into the block to retain the heads would be much stronger.

Can you explain please?

 

Its a wet-liner engine and they correspond to the water galleries, you can see it better on this shot of the real thing:-

 

 

There is no need for the water jackets to extend around the land required for the head bolts - so they don't.

 

That's actually a 308 block before anyone picks me up on it, but they are damn near the same - the wet-liners are overbored 1mm and there's a few more lumps and bumps on the casting but very similar otherwise.

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[Codger]

That's a great picture and great explanation. Thanks for making that clear.

C

[nick]

Here's the 3D Version:-

 

https://skfb.ly/ooFYn

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[Malc2]

 

1 hour ago, Codger said:

Nick,

At the top of each bank on inboard side are three nearly rectangular openings which otherwise would resemble intake ports in a head casting. But these are in the block casting. I can only guess that they are for fastener access for through-head bolts. But that seems not to make sense since studs all the way into the block to retain the heads would be much stronger.

Can you explain please?

If I may offer further expalantion to this question, having been involved with the design and manufacture of aluminium engine block castings for most of my working life.

The pockets refered to are to reduce the amount of aluminium in what would otherwise be a large triangle of aluminium cast in one place (for the head bolt), otherwise you would get excessive shrinkage in this area, leading to porosity in the casting. - not good where you want max strength for the head bolt threads and no leaks from the water jacket!

Secondary benefits are reduced weight and cost.

 

PS - Nick, fantastic job on the engine by the way!

 

Malc.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Malc2

[nick]

1 minute ago, Malc2 said:

 

If I may offer further expalantion to this question, having been involved with engine block castings for most of my working life.

The pockets refered to are to reduce the amount of aluminium in what would otherwise be a large triangle of aluminium cast in one place (necessary for the head bolt), otherwise you would get excessive shrinkage in this area, leading to porosity in the casting. - not good where you want max strength for the head bolt threads and no leaks from the water jacket!

Secondary benefits are reduced weight and cost.

 

Malc.

Thanks for your input, makes perfect sense.

 

I'm working up to 3D printing full-sized intake plenums in magnesium for the guy providing me with all the data and photos so I may need to pick your brains in that case for the bits that can't be seen.

 

I'm assuming that these must have been lost wax castings as they are impossible to make any other way

 

 

I know I can draw it because I already did, I just need to redo it accurately now I have the data

 

 

Just a bit concerned about making a fairly expensive, full-sized working one rather than a model! Obviously I will be meticulous with wall thicknesses, radii etc anything else I should bear in mind?

 

No pressure then - it's your own fault for bringing it up!

 

regards,

 

Nick.

[Codger]

Most probably sand castings. Best luck on the project.

[nick]

22 minutes ago, Codger said:

Most probably sand castings. Best luck on the project.

I’m pretty sure they must be lost wax, they are one piece castings with complex internal geometry.
 

The wax goes into sand to cast it if that’s what you mean, but I believe it requires a sacrificial wax master that gasses off when the molten metal arrives IMHO. 
 

I have given this quite a lot of thought, but I may be wrong. 
 

regards,

 

Nick.