yet another Ferrari 1/8th F40 Engine

[nick]

10 minutes ago, PROPELLER said:

I'm sorry Nick, but for my eyes it seems as a painted very rusty piece!

But maybe it's the pic...

Dan.

Dan,

        you have a point, they are fairly rough castings, painted. but actually you're right, they're not as rough as mine look at this scale.

 

More paint experimentation called for.

 

I think the valve cover paint texture is still about right, but that's completely different - in real life, that's a crackle paint, where this is a casting natural texture coated with smooth paint, so they are different and I've effectively made them the same!

 

I may revisit getting the casting texture on to my printed models rather than messing about with paint finishes.

 

Good spot.

 

Nick

[albergman]

This is a fascinating project and one which has excited me enough to install Fusion 360.   It's a bit of a struggle (for me) to get started in the software as most  YouTube tutorials use older versions and in no time at all you can't relate it to your version!    All that aside, your success with it is very encouraging so thanks for that.

 

One thing I'd like to see is to have a real-life object (pencil?) beside your printed result.   I'm not familiar with Pocher models and have no idea what size this engine really is..   

 

Keep up the terrific progress.

 

Frank

[nick]

1 hour ago, albergman said:

This is a fascinating project and one which has excited me enough to install Fusion 360.   It's a bit of a struggle (for me) to get started in the software as most  YouTube tutorials use older versions and in no time at all you can't relate it to your version!    All that aside, your success with it is very encouraging so thanks for that.

 

One thing I'd like to see is to have a real-life object (pencil?) beside your printed result.  

Hi Frank I wasn’t sure if you wanted an analogue or digital pencil so I shot both😎

 

 

youtube is chock-full of rubbish, if you want to learn anything at all go to Lynda.com or linked-in learning as it’s now called. You get a 30 day free trial but I have a full subscription as it’s possibly the most useful thing in the world especially if you subscribe to the ever-changing adobe creative cloud. 
 

Nick

[albergman]

Thanks for the speedy reply Nick ... the analogue did the trick!   So now the model is even more impressive because, from the size of most of your photos, I thought this was going to be a huge engine.    What a jewel.

 

I'll look into those courses for sure.

 

Frank

[nick]

Just in case anyone thought this was too easy, it was an iterative process!

 

 

Nick

[harveyb258]

Great work Nick.

It takes me all my time to type on the computer, these days, let alone trying to get my head around CAD software etc. You have my respect.

 

[Pascal]

12 hours ago, nick said:

 

 

 

and here's my new crackle black paint on the waterways, pretty pleased how these came out to be honest

 

 

 

thanks for looking

 

Nick

 

 

I agree with Dan, the manifolds for the water cooling look like they're very old and heavily rusted.

 

Here's an original part :

 

 

For reference purpose only

 

Sincerely

Pascal

[nick]

1 hour ago, Pascal said:

 

I agree with Dan, the manifolds for the water cooling look like they're very old and heavily rusted.

 

Here's an original part :

 

 

For reference purpose only

 

Sincerely

Pascal

OK I found that image too. I agree I have the wrong shade of lipstick on my pig. 
 

the geometry of the water system is out of kilter completely - the pipe diameter is too small vs the fixed centres of it all, therefore the heads are out too. 
 

this is how it goes,  you think you’re on track, then a single image takes you back three steps.

 

I’m finding  similar issues with the cam belt system at the moment, hence my big collection of reject parts. 
 

I already know I need to reprint the block because of this, so reworking the heads and water manifolds isn’t  a big deal either.
 

This is the game changer here - repeatability.
 

We all get invested In a single part we spend hours on hand crafting, whereas here I can literally press CTRL Z and go back a few steps and correct my fundamental earlier errors.

 

who hasn’t wished they had CTRL Z  in real life when they buggered something up building a model? 
 

if I had fashioned this part by traditional methods, that showed deeper errors the way this does, I would probably have abandoned the project, as it goes, I’ve got 10 minutes of CAD work, a few hours of printing, and less than a couple of quids worth of wasted materials to add to the ever growing pile. 
 

all part of the fun. 
 

If I had a full set of blueprints I reckon I could have knocked this out in a week.

 

Nick
 

 

[Sabrejet]

Well I still think it looks awesome. 👌

[Pouln]

Your garbage pile is a treasure trove for those who need to work with the standard Pocher parts.
But you are right, this way errors are quite easily corrected. Apparently you are determined to correct these errors which is 👍

In the end you will have a very true model, that is a feast to the eyes.

[nick]

1 hour ago, Pouln said:

Your garbage pile is a treasure trove for those who need to work with the standard Pocher parts.
But you are right, this way errors are quite easily corrected. Apparently you are determined to correct these errors which is 👍

In the end you will have a very true model, that is a feast to the eyes.

The way I look at it is, if I can make it right, why wouldn’t I? The cost of repeating is negligible, the printer is bomb-proof, so I can confidently leave it running unsupervised.

 

I try and batch up a few pieces during the day, so I can submit them as a group overnight, I wake up the next morning and I have a nice batch of shiny new parts waiting for me.

 

this is genuinely a new way of modelling, it changes everything. Plus I’m still learning, the more I make the easier it gets. This is my first outing, I’m going to get it as good as I can, and its all a great grounding for the next project, which I think will be much easier and quicker, now I know what I’m doing. 

 

The only way to learn is to make mistakes, and I‘ve made plenty of those!

 

Regards

 

Nick

[nick]

So Cam pulleys then 

 

The belts are proving tricky!

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[nick]

Bloody cam belts were a lot harder than I anticipated. I've just discovered that Fusion 360 isn't great for finding leaks in complex sketches just in case anybody understands a word of that

 

 

Regards,

 

Nick

[nick]

And there's the real world version.

 

 

 

I re-did the waterways, I think they are a better colour, and not as rough as the previous attempt? not very happy with the finish on the brass/silver components at this magnification - don't know what's happening there.

 

 

 

The 'photo-etched' cam cover back plates (in black) are actually printed, so that seems to work themn?

 

Just printing my first Cam belt as we speak, so let's see how that turns out.

 

 

Regards,

 

Nick

 

[albergman]

This is fabulous Nick.   Love your attention to detail and desire to get everything right.   Question ... are the plug wires printed or actual wire?    

 

Frank

Edited August 18, 2020 by albergman

[nick]

3 minutes ago, albergman said:

Question ... are the plug wires printed or actual wire?    

Hi Frank, I made this hard enough for myself already, so actual wire ! 

 

Regards and thanks,

 

Nick

[Pouln]

The plumbing looks much better, Nick.

The engine is coming together nicely now.

[Pascal]

3 hours ago, nick said:

And there's the real world version.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Nick, I think there's something odd about that last set of photos. Here's my 2 cents :

 

I think that the distance between the LH and RH cylinder heads is a bit to wide. Can you measure that distance and compare it with the Pocher parts ?

 

I compared your photo above with this one :

 

 

Hard to tell, but it looks to me that your block is a bit to wide (or it might be that the pieces where you attach the cylinder heads are to far from eachother).

 

If the distance is indeed to wide, it might explain why your water cooling pipes look so flimsy compared with the Autograph parts. Here's a photo from the WIP of terrible4130 :

 

 

Look at the diameter of the water cooling pipes and the shape of the piece that connects the two.

 

You might get a better result by just enlarging the diameter of the water cooling pipes, but it might be good idea to check the width of the your engine block (with and without the cylinder heads) and compare that with the original Pocher parts.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

[nick]

55 minutes ago, Pascal said:

 

Hey Nick, I think there's something odd about that last set of photos. Here's my 2 cents :

 

I think that the distance between the LH and RH cylinder heads is a bit to wide. Can you measure that distance and compare it with the Pocher parts ?

 

I compared your photo above with this one :

 

 

Hard to tell, but it looks to me that your block is a bit to wide (or it might be that the pieces where you attach the cylinder heads are to far from eachother).

 

If the distance is indeed to wide, it might explain why your water cooling pipes look so flimsy compared with the Autograph parts. Here's a photo from the WIP of terrible4130 :

 

 

Look at the diameter of the water cooling pipes and the shape of the piece that connects the two.

 

You might get a better result by just enlarging the diameter of the water cooling pipes, but it might be good idea to check the width of the your engine block (with and without the cylinder heads) and compare that with the original Pocher parts.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

Pascal,

           I’ve been looking at the water pipes a lot myself. 
 

I always kept an eye on the Pocher lump throughout this, and my version has similar overall dimensions as you can see.

 

 

what I’m not getting is the waterway flange sizes are taken directly off a square, aligned photo of the side of the head, yet the pipes do appear too narrow by the time they reach the centre. Here’s the head - dainty pipes and flanges;-

 

part of the issue is that the main pipe going to the water pump (2) is getting on twice the diameter of the two (1) entering it on the real thing below. 

 

 

mine isn’t. That’s easy to correct, and will beef it up somewhat, relative to the water pump  
 

the only other thing I can think of is stepping the diameter up on the elbows between the head and the longitudinal side pipes. 
 

my main problem is that I don’t have any references for the water manifolds left and right to see how to get from the head flanges to the apparently larger centre pipe I do have good references for. 
 

I would respectively suggest that Pocher/Autograph version is oversized too compared to the real thing above, so as you’re used to seeing that, it may be contributing to mine looking doubly undersized. I accept It is undersize BTW, it probably just looks worse to you!

 

regards,

 

Nick

[nick]

OK, after much internet trawling, I finally found this. 
 

 

it look hideous, and very un-Ferrari, but the rest of these drawings have been spot and it does explain everything.

 

The water manifolds bloat up massively After the flanges into really ugly, delta shaped things, Who would have thought?

 

so my subtle step up at the elbows wouldn’t have covered it. Logically, they had to look something like this is Especially as I had good data/images for  both sides of them, so logically they had to step up, I should have figured that out really. 

more fodder for my ever-growing reject pile. 
 

thanks for making me try harder!

 

Nick

 

[Pascal]

Hi Nick, if you look at that first photo with your parts and the Pocher parts, and draw a line from left to right at the inner sides of the cylinder heads, you'll see that the Pocher cylinder heads are at the same position as your cylinder heads + the flanges. In my opinion you need to add at least the thickness of your flanges to the inner sides of your cylinder heads.

 

The water cooling pipes are between 5,5 and 6,5 mm in the transkit. I would increase the diameter of your pipes by at least 50 % (personally I would make them twice the diameter).

 

Look at the big hole on the engine block (to the left of the blue filter), I thing the pipes should be about the same diameter as the inside of that hole. You have a plastic straw ? That's the size you're looking for.

 

I have the Autograph cooling pipes, if you want I can look for them and give you the exact measurements.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

 

 

[nick]

I think we crossed in the post! I finally found a drawing, all the diameters step up significantly from the initial flange sizes, and I now have an outline shape for how the manifolds do this. 
 

that was a good catch. It was way out. 
 

regards

 

Nick. 

[Pascal]

You're welcome Nick !

 

I found a couple more photos.

 

Look how small the distance between the cylinder heads is :

 

 

With the cooling pipes installed, the top part that connects the pipes is massive :

 

 

Years ago there was a website that showed the rebuild of a F40 in Germany. Are you familiar with that website ? I'm trying to find the name, but no luck sofar. The website had hundreds of photos of the rebuild and a 2 part video that you could by on DVD.  I'll continue to look for the website.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

[nick]

7 minutes ago, Pascal said:

You're welcome Nick !

 

I found a couple more photos.

 

Look how small the distance between the cylinder heads is :

 

 

With the cooling pipes installed, the top part that connects the pipes is massive :

 

 

Years ago there was a website that showed the rebuild of a F40 in Germany. Are you familiar with that website ? I'm trying to find the name, but no luck sofar. The website had hundreds of photos of the rebuild and a 2 part video that you could by on DVD.  I'll continue to look for the website.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

OK that does look narrower but it also gives me some great insight into the water manifolds. I will update them on the existing block and see how it looks.

 

changing the geometry of the block to narrow the vee is a major rework, so I’ll overlay your new photos on my models and see what we’re talking about, I don’t think it’s actually that much by eyeballing it. 
 

this was one one of the few God dimensions I lifted from Pocher base kit - I knew it would come back to bite me at some point. 
 

Nick

[Codger]

Pascal and Nick; would it not be advantageous to learn the dimension of the 1:1 block's deck height (distance from crank centerline to head mount surface) then divide by the scale (8) ? Then a dimension of the cylinder head deck thickness and height? That would reveal who's version is correct, Pocher's or Nick's.

Pascal you rascal, you seem to have these lying about your living room....