yet another Ferrari 1/8th F40 Engine

[nick]

On 7/18/2020 at 2:19 PM, Codger said:

But why do all the 3D projects I've seen include all the internal detail of the parts? I would think that since this will go into a complete model car, only the outer surfaces (top and sides) will be visible. It seems that drawing and printing the combustion chambers, rocker stands, plug bores, water and oil passages and internal reinforcement (to say nothing of engine block castings) would require much more material, time and skill.

Unless you intend to use the parts as stand alone models or parts in a diorama. Of course, I find it fantastic that one CAN model these internals. The parts look like they just need machining to operate.

Forgive if I'm missing something obvious...

That's a great question. 

 

That was my point about outside-in and inside-out CAD.

 

Basically outside-in is when you only care about the surface of an object (the outside) so just the look of, and that's how I started off.

 

However it soon becomes apparent that when you guess at the various lumps and bumps of components like this, you soon discover why they are present and some later component highlights errors in what you have made so far and you have to modify it, or even start again in some cases.

 

So this is why I switched to inside out, so the things inside the model - cylinder bores, valves etc inform the outside, for example the cant on the combustion chamber roof gives the angles for the valves so they emerge in the right place under the camshaft.

 

The problem with 3D modelling is that objects actually have to work in the real world, so things need to line up, everything needs all 3 dimension from somewhere - ideally measured, in this case guessed or derived form other structures..

 

so actually, you might as well do it properly. It's no different to detailing aircraft interiors that can  never been seen and this forum is full of them.

 

Having said all that, the main reason I do like this is because I can, and I love how it looks

 

As for material, 3D printers use automated hollowing routines, so things are almost never solid even if they look like they are, plus it's really cheap anyway.

 

This is a shot of my slicer (you slice 3D objects into hundreds of layers 0.05mm in this case) to print them. It knows the cost of my resin per litre, so has calculated that this print will cost 44p as you can see below.

 

 

This slice also shows the fill pattern generated in the black and white image which happens to be layer 321 out of 625 for this model

 

 

and here's a proper render for good measure

 

]

 

Regards,

 

Nick

 

 

 

[Codger]

Sincere thanks for a '3D For Dummies' explanation - even I understood it. Well explained and illustrated.

Carry on !

[nick]

Experimenting with different paint finishes now

 

i think I prefer the smoother one?

 

regards

 

Nick

 

[larchiefeng]

This looks great. I’m really interested in how you render the 3D CAD drawing and printing of the engine block itself because the Pocher engine block assembly is the worst part of the engine! It doesn’t fit and looks pretty incorrect not to mention it goes together like a cheap toy! I realize that as I build it and add all the surface details I know that, you won’t see 80% of the engine inside the finished car but, it still bothers me. I can’t help but thinking that if the block was a more solid platform all the extra Autograph transkit parts I’m adding would have gone together much better and looked like a more realistic finished product. I’ve been stuck on stupid with the build for the last six months and I need something to jump start the build. 
 

[Microbike]

On 7/14/2020 at 3:46 PM, nick said:

Well underway drawing the first cylinder head now. 

Hi Nick

 

i agree Fusion 360 is a great tool before lockdown I was going to invest in Fusion 360 (which is no longer free you have to pay for it) 

 

Nick I have a quick question what was your starting point with the cylinder head. Did you start with a blank screen or did you import a photo, blue print or a drawing  from the internet?

 

Do you use a 3D scanner at all?

[dbostream]

1 hour ago, Microbike said:

Hi Nick

 

i agree Fusion 360 is a great tool before lockdown I was going to invest in Fusion 360 (which is no longer free you have to pay for it) 

 

Nick I have a quick question what was your starting point with the cylinder head. Did you start with a blank screen or did you import a photo, blue print or a drawing  from the internet?

 

Do you use a 3D scanner at all?

Fusion 360 no longer free? When did they change that?

[nick]

On 7/19/2020 at 8:11 AM, Microbike said:

I agree Fusion 360 is a great tool before lockdown I was going to invest in Fusion 360 (which is no longer free you have to pay for it) 

 

Nick I have a quick question what was your starting point with the cylinder head. Did you start with a blank screen or did you import a photo, blue print or a drawing  from the internet?

No that’s not right. 
 

fusion 360 is still free for non-commercial use. And even for startup business use its free until you make your first $100,000 with it which is extremely fair and a clever strategy. 
 

I perspective correct squarish-on Photos in photoshop and import them into the planes I have images for to get started.

 

if I have a base object to work from, I shoot it square on with a caliper which I can them calibrate in fusion. 
 

so in this case put the calibration cross hair on the caliper zero point, stretch to the 50mm mark, click, tell it it’s 50mm and the photo snaps to exact scale. 
 

[Microbike]

8 hours ago, dbostream said:

Fusion 360 no longer free? When did they change that?

I was looking to download a version before lockdown and students are still free but not hobbyists 

[Microbike]

8 hours ago, nick said:

if I have a base object to work from, I shoot it square on with a caliper which I can them calibrate in fusion. 

So then do you take photos from all sides? Then import and calibrate to create the Start of the 3D model?

[nick]

6 hours ago, Microbike said:

I was looking to download a version before lockdown and students are still free but not hobbyists 

Here is the link for the free hobbyist version as I mentioned in my earlier post:

 

https://www.autodesk.co.uk/campaigns/fusion-360-for-hobbyists

[nick]

1 hour ago, Microbike said:

So then do you take photos from all sides? Then import and calibrate to create the Start of the 3D model?

If I have the object, yes. Otherwise I make do with the most square internet images I can find, perspective corrected in photoshop and scale by eye to one or two known dimensions eg overall length/height which is what I did for the cylinder head. 

[nick]

20 hours ago, larchiefeng said:

This looks great. I’m really interested in how you render the 3D CAD drawing and printing of the engine block itself because the Pocher engine block assembly is the worst part of the engine! It doesn’t fit and looks pretty incorrect not to mention it goes together like a cheap toy! I realize that as I build it and add all the surface details I know that, you won’t see 80% of the engine inside the finished car but, it still bothers me. I can’t help but thinking that if the block was a more solid platform all the extra Autograph transkit parts I’m adding would have gone together much better and looked like a more realistic finished product. I’ve been stuck on stupid with the build for the last six months and I need something to jump start the build. 
 

Yes I’ve got the Pocher engine myself and your exact point is what started me on this little journey. 
it’s a mystery to me how something so expensive can be so bad. I may still use the gearbox, that’s not bad in fairness.

my overall dimensions are loosely based on the Pocher lump with the proportions taken from scaled photos, so stuff may or may not fit the Pocher kit. 
 

regards

 

Nick

[nick]

Finally made a start on the block tonight, I’ve got both cylinder banks and valve covers completed, they aren’t just mirrors of each other, there are detail differences.

 

this is where I get to find out if my earlier geometry guessing will work - so far so good!

 

 

 

regards,

 

Nick

[Pascal]

Looking very good.

 

Here's a bit of inspiration from the Centauria / Panini F40 Competizione. Not as detailed as your work and some parts look like they are reversed engineered from Pocher, but it gives some good views how all the parts go together :

 

 

 

[nick]

1 hour ago, Pascal said:

Here's a bit of inspiration from the Centauria / Panini F40 Competizione. Not as detailed as your work and some parts look like they are reversed engineered from Pocher, but it gives some good views how all the parts go together :

Wow, that's quite something. As you say useful info and exactly what I need!

 

Its an a bit of an eye-opener that people need an 11 minute video to assemble 4 components with 6 screws.

 

He's also called Wayne and almost immediately said 'May the Force be with you'. Lordy.

 

Thanks for the help, much appreciated

 

 

Nick

[nick]

Latest renders of current progress:-

 

 

First  full set of heads and valve covers are printing off as we speak.

 

Regards,

 

Nick

 

[dbostream]

I think the engine block is lacking in details.  I am sure this engine will be mind-blowing once finished.

[nick]

2 minutes ago, dbostream said:

I think the engine block is lacking in details.  I am sure this engine will be mind-blowing once finished.

It’s about the same as the Pocher one. 
 

it really is actually - check back in a day or two and it won’t look like that

 

Nick

[Sabrejet]

Some great 21st century modelling going on here: also shows how clunky those Pocher bits are. 👌

[nick]

3 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Some great 21st century modelling going on here: also shows how clunky those Pocher bits are. 👌

for any doubters out there, here is the Pocher lump:-

 

 

which is their version of the heads and block combined. I think they got their data on this engine from a one-eyed chimp in a passing helicopter.

 

regards,

 

Nick

 

[PROPELLER]

Yes, the Pocher kits were not perfect, far from it ...
But they have given the possibility to thousands of model makers to make 1/8 models,

completely honest, today too!

Do you know many others 1/8 models kits brands? 

Thank you very much mister Arnaldo Pocher. Rest in peace...

 

Dan.

[Pascal]

I agree with Dan, when I bought my first Pocher-Rivarossi F40 (and later the Testarossa) early 90's, they were miles ahead of ANYTHING that was available. Just about the only diecast models of the F40 were from Bburago and Polistil, but in smaller scales.

 

30 years later, the Ferraris from Pocher-Rivarossi are still being built by modellers, that's a great tribute to a company that had little funding and relied on ordinary people who packaged the kits at home.

 

If only Hornby would bring the Pocher-Rivarossi Ferraris (and the Porsche 911) back into production, I'm sure that many modellers (and non-modellers who screw and click the kits together) would be very pleased.

 

Maybe a company like Round2 will produce the kits one day ...

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

[Codger]

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the old Pocher guys, I think the intent was to get all the locations for the outer parts accurately so the overall look in the assembled car was correct. So the block was not to be so detailed intentionally. Just locate the heads and ancillaries correctly.

I agree with Pascal - we owe them a debt of thanks. And yes - I threw my share of stones at them when building the Rolls for the compromises they built-into the kit. But I over-came them and many here can.

By doing so you get a fantastic large scale replica.

[nick]

1 hour ago, Pascal said:

I agree with Dan, when I bought my first Pocher-Rivarossi F40 (and later the Testarossa) early 90's, they were miles ahead of ANYTHING that was available. Just about the only diecast models of the F40 were from Bburago and Polistil, but in smaller scales.

 

30 years later, the Ferraris from Pocher-Rivarossi are still being built by modellers, that's a great tribute to a company that had little funding and relied on ordinary people who packaged the kits at home.

 

If only Hornby would bring the Pocher-Rivarossi Ferraris (and the Porsche 911) back into production, I'm sure that many modellers (and non-modellers who screw and click the kits together) would be very pleased.

 

Maybe a company like Round2 will produce the kits one day ...

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

OK, so maybe I was a little hard on Pocher there, I will retract my earlier criticism then!

 

In my defence, one of the first times I visited Como in the 80s I did seek out the factory so I could at least say I had driven past it, so I was a fan at one time.

 

I guess I have been spoilt by improvements over the years and had forgotten how truly terrible everything else was at the time by comparison! it was all a very long time ago now.

 

regards,

 

Nick

[nick]

So here’s the first full set of right and left cylinder heads and valve covers hot off the printer. 
 

I've taken to curing them with the supports still attached to try and minimise warping