Ta 152 - knowledge/speculation required

[Werdna]

Evening all - here's a question for which there is probably no definitive answer..  

 

I'm in the process of building a 1/48 Hobby Boss Ta 152 'C-11' - which is a type that I don't believe ever made it to front line service before the end of the war.  I'm aware that some think it 'probably' did see service, but I've yet to find the evidence.  The thing is, the paint scheme calls for it to be painted as a JG 301 a/c, which did operate the Ta-152H in limited numbers - but not the 'C' variant, apparently.  It also suggests a brown/green (RLM81 & 82) top surface, over RLM76.  As far as I can tell, all the operational 152s were turned out in two shades of green, over 76.

 

I will use the kit scheme if necessary, but the question is this - if you were building this up, how would you paint it?  Ideally a late war scheme, which, while not necessarily accurate, is at least 'sympathetic'...

 

Thanks in advance  

[Seawinder]

81/82 can be a green/green scheme depending on which variation of 81 was used. Taking 82 as the lighter, brighter shade, the darker green could have been the green version or 81 or possibly that elusive dark, olive green previously referred to as 83, which, based on the Merrick & Hitchcock chips, is not hugely different from 71.

 

You might want to do some digging regarding the under surface color: I'm pretty sure I remember reading that at least some areas were left in bare metal.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Werdna said:

Ideally a late war scheme, which, while not necessarily accurate, is at least 'sympathetic'...

 

 

The Ta152 colours have been discussed here on occasion, 

which will link you to this

 

which on page 2 has colour pics of the surviving Ta152

 

AFAIK the Ta152C-11 never saw an use,  there may have been a Ta152C-0 or C-1 evaluated.

 

HTH

[Eric Mc]

It never made it to prototype, let alone front line.

 

The nearest design to actually get airborne was the Argentinian FMA Pulqui.

[Werdna]

Thanks all - I've read the other threads and I'm ok with there being no definitive answer and I'm also comfortable with some form green/green scheme.  The Hobby Boss colour guide depicts 81 as a brown, which according to Jerry Crandall, didn't appear on 152s, although such a brown does seem to have appeared on 109G/Ks and 190Ds in late war schemes.

 

I'm aware the C-11 (or any of the other 'C' series) may not have seen operations - which is why I posed the original question - "what would you do if you were painting one?"

 

 

7 minutes ago, Eric Mc said:

It never made it to prototype, let alone front line.

 

The nearest design to actually get airborne was the Argentinian FMA Pulqui.

 

I think you're referring to the Ta 183?

 

 

[Sturmovik]

35 minutes ago, Werdna said:

I think you're referring to the Ta 183?

 

No, the Ta 183 was the precursor of the Pulqui 2. 

 

I followed Hobby Boss's instructions regarding the camouflage scheme and came up with this result:

[Werdna]

7 minutes ago, Sturmovik said:

No, the Ta 183 was the precursor of the Pulqui 2. 

 

I followed Hobby Boss's instructions regarding the camouflage scheme and came up with this result:

 

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the relevance of the Pulqui to a discussion about the Ta 152?  Your model looks great and you seem to have followed the paint instructions pretty closely.  I'm just looking for alternative suggestions  

[Sturmovik]

4 minutes ago, Werdna said:

 

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the relevance of the Pulqui to a discussion about the Ta 152?  Your model looks great and you seem to have followed the paint instructions pretty closely.  I'm just looking for alternative suggestions  

Regarding the Pulqui, I was answering to Eric Mc's answer.

 

Before choosing to paint my C-11 in the box colours, I first thought on painting it as a BoB machine, in RLM 71/02 with a yellow nose, maybe you can do that!

[Werdna]

I like your thinking, but that's probably a step too far for me

 

[Werdna]

Talking of things being a 'step too far' - I think my biggest issue is with the JG 301 band on the fuselage, as it stakes a claim to front line service/combat which isn't really justified.  I may just go for the box colours, but replacing the brown with a darker shade of green (like 83, for instance) and leaving off the JG 301 colours.  Which, in fact, will turn out nothing like the box colours, but there we are.  I don't really want to go all 'Luft 46' on it, so may just leave it at that...  

[AWFK10]

I recall an article in Model Aircraft Monthly stating that a return exits showing JG 301 had a couple of Ta 152Cs "ready for action" at the start of May 1945, though there was no further information on any operational sorties that they might have flown.

[Werdna]

That sounds similar to the reference that I saw (but not in print).  Basically, the claim was that there were two on strength with 301 just before the war ended, so maybe there is something in it?

[Crimea River]

Eagle Editions offered up some Ta152C decals in the guise of JG301 machines. The possibility stemmed from a recorded flight by Reschke and Blum on April 8, 1945 to Erfurt-North to pick up two Ta-152s. Though, in his book, Reschke claims these to have been Ta152-H-1's, the pick-up location and a strength report showing 2-Ta152C's on strength with JG301 at the end of April have led to some theorizing that the 2 aircraft picked up on the 8th were actually C's.

[Graham Boak]

The tail bands were no longer required in 1945.  Yellow noses were the "in thing".  Although this seems to have been an Eastern Front requirement, such separation was getting a little bit academic by then.

[Wulfman]

While we are on the subject, can anybody confirm the alleged all red/orange colour scheme ?

 

Wulfman

[tank152]

4 minutes ago, Wulfman said:

While we are on the subject, can anybody confirm the alleged all red/orange colour scheme ?

 

Wulfman

I've met and spoken to both Willi Reschke and Walter Loos and they both insist that that was a wind up that ,"that dumb American fell for hook line and sinker" 

There were a fair few Luftwaffe guys that i've met at various signing events that have made comments that are less than savoury about the said person.

[torqueofthedevil]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:08 AM, Werdna said:

That sounds similar to the reference that I saw (but not in print).  Basically, the claim was that there were two on strength with 301 just before the war ended, so maybe there is something in it?

The German language book of colour profiles by Claes Sundin and Christer Bergstrom is adamant that two airworthy Ta 152C-1/R31s were at readiness with Stab/JG301 on 30th April 1945 (without stating that the two aircraft actually saw combat). The profile shows Green 13, w/n 110028, in what I take is RLM82/83 over 76, with a plain black spinner and RVD band (yellow leading). 

Edited June 30, 2020 by torqueofthedevil
Green 13 not 11!

[Werdna]

Very interesting, thanks

 

It sounds like the JG301 bands will be going on after all.  Because, why not  

 

Thanks for everyone's replies.  I realise this is contentious, subjective and that there is likely to be no definitive answer - unless someone digs up previously unseen colour pics of these a/c on the airfield.  I'm also sensitive to the previous threads on the topic and I didn't want to start that debate all over again.

[Wulfman]

9 hours ago, tank152 said:

I've met and spoken to both Willi Reschke and Walter Loos and they both insist that that was a wind up that ,"that dumb American fell for hook line and sinker" 

There were a fair few Luftwaffe guys that i've met at various signing events that have made comments that are less than savoury about the said person.

Thanks tank, I found it very difficult to believe .

cheers Wulfman

[flyingdoctor]

Tank

 

How did you meet Willi Reschke and Walter Loos and what is their problem with the "American"? Is it about personality or his recearch?

 

Cheers

[Mike]

I'm no stickler for colours, but this was my take on it a while back:

 

 

 

[Werdna]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm no stickler for colours, but this was my take on it a while back:

 

Thanks Mike - I found your RFI thread previously and that was a superb build.  My take is likely to be 'similar' but not necessarily identical.  Having said that, if mine turns out anywhere near as good as yours, I'll be very happy  

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, Werdna said:

My take is likely to be 'similar' but not necessarily identical.

I could imagine the same phrase applying to two aircraft in the same squadron, especially given the haphazard state of production of anything other than rubble in Germany in late war   

[Werdna]

25 minutes ago, Mike said:

I could imagine the same phrase applying to two aircraft in the same squadron, especially given the haphazard state of production of anything other than rubble in Germany in late war   

I can imagine - two teams of ground crew, each carrying tins of whatever paint was left in the stores.....

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, Werdna said:

I can imagine - two teams of ground crew, each carrying tins of whatever paint was left in the stores.....

Humbrol would be out of the question, but Revell, Gunze or Tamiya maybe?