Jump to content

Russian intercepts


jhutchi

Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said:

Makes a change for the Russian aircraft to keep its distance.


Heh!

 It’s an interesting cultural blind spot sometimes - we get upset about the Russians and Chinese doing it, but forget about the fact that everyone does it!

 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/that-time-a-soviet-su-27-flanker-collided-with-a-norwegian-p-3-orion-over-the-barents-sea/amp/

 

https://fighterjetsworld.com/air/four-swedish-viggen-pilots-protected-a-crippled-sr-71-blackbird/9534/

 

https://www.stripes.com/news/russian-jet-performs-unsafe-intercept-of-us-navy-plane-1.499761

 

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/05/26/watch-russian-jets-intercept-navy-plane/

 

253.jpg

 

BG_Flogger_l.jpg

 

Pestana-Silent-War-Acrylic-26x38.jpg

 

414B47E600000578-0-image-a-18_1497051186

 

NK29C.jpg

 

image.jpg

 

SR-71-escoltado-por-Saab-Viggen.jpg

 

414B47EF00000578-0-image-a-16_1497051146

 

r.jpeg

 

Edited by Blimpyboy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Blimpyboy said:


Heh!

 It’s an interesting cultural blind spot sometimes - we get upset about the Russians and Chinese doing it, but forget about the fact that everyone does it!

 

 

 

Well, yes, but not everybody does it the same professional way. Was there ever a case about a western interceptor trying to play John Wayne?

 

Alex

Edited by alex
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, alex said:

Was there ever a case about a western interceptor trying to play John Wayne?

Who can say, but those who were there? 

To read Russian and Chinese (and everyone else's) accounts, you'd find there's any number of accusations against the opposing parties!

 

Think back to the Hainan island EP-3/J-8 incident.

The U.S. blames China  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/apr/13/china

and

China blames the U.S.  https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/04/world/collision-china-overview-china-faults-us-incident-suggests-release-crew-hinges.html

 

Deliberate flathatting or inexperience:  https://www.flightglobal.com/swedish-sh37-viggen-crashes-photographing-/4283.article

 

Who's in the right?

Edited by Blimpyboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree on the point that the bad press outweighs the correct intercepts. But I assume if the west would do unsafe intercepts, the other side would make sure they get all the attention in the media.

 

Fact is there is plenty of footage about bad procedures intercepts. But only few of them involve western interceptors...

 

Alex

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're right, in that 'Western' aircrews generally exhibit what we would call a greater level of 'professionalism' (but, check any NATO safety magazine for incidents of flathatting ending in fatalities).

Still, do a detailed search of Chinese- and Russian-language press articles and you will find just as much reporting about Western unprofessionalism!

 

There are a few photos in this article that show NATO crews flying in a manner that we would certainly consider 'unprofessional' today:  https://theaviationist.com/2020/06/12/take-a-look-at-these-rare-photos-of-nato-fighters-intercepting-soviet-tu-95rt-bear-d-during-the-cold-war/

 

Plus, for historical context: 

https://theaviationist.com/2015/04/23/rc-135-aircraft-commander-explains/

and

https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/09/we-did-barrel-rolls-around-tu-95s-at-the-request-of-the-soviets-f-4-wso-explains-the-story-of-the-phantom-upside-down-near-bear/

 

F-4C-Tu-95-barrel-rolls-new-2.jpg?ssl=1

 

spmuzjxhi5301.jpg

 

 
1440734_5cfa771e6ff7cacd82cfd8ac682416a1

 

Edited by Blimpyboy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NATO fast jet pilots can be as prone to stupidity as anyone else, but they do seem to realise the potential consequences of behaving like a c0ckw0mble when flying a high speed aircraft that is armed to the teeth in the proximity of large, slow moving targets bearing the markings of a not-entirely-friendly nation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They certainly do, as do most aircrew - dead is dead, after all.

 

Standards differ widely between forces - I don't recall being briefed on any adversaries' likely tactics for interceptions, but sure as heck remember being warned about likely actions from 'allies' who wanted to scare the poor ASW drivers during exercises!

 

Gramps would NOT have been happy...

 

Winter2013_feature3a1.jpg

 

Winter2013_feature3a2.jpg

 

Winter2013_feature3a3.jpg

 

Winter2013_feature3b1.jpg

 

Winter2013_feature3b2.jpg

 

Winter2013_feature3b3.jpg

 

Winter2013_feature3b4.jpg

 

moses.jpg

Edited by Blimpyboy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish we'd received one of these for the bad guys in my day:  https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercept-Procedures.pdf

It would have been handy to have a little card, rather than just rely on verbal briefings.

 

Mind you, despite the ICAO's best efforts, I'm not sure the Russians and half the Asian countries used these directions...

Edited by Blimpyboy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for that link, Blimpyboy. At some time in the far distant past I came across something similar in a NATO publication regarding internationally agreed protocols for both intercepting AND intercepted aircraft, but I wish I'd made a copy at the time as I have never seen it since. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello

I know it is Wikipedia, but still ... Read the second paragraph of that section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35#2015_Russian_military_intervention_in_Syria

I think in such cases self-preservation kicks in and overrides juvenile impulses, excess of testosterone and other potentially harmful influences. Cheers

Jure

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said:

At some time in the far distant past I came across something similar in a NATO publication regarding internationally agreed protocols for both intercepting AND intercepted aircraft, but I wish I'd made a copy at the time as I have never seen it since. 

 

Nice!

I do recall a maritime agreement, called INCSEA, from the early 1970s (showing my age, or what), which did cover all platforms in the maritime environment. INCSEA was international and the Soviets were signatories. I'm not sure if it exists in exactly the same form today, with the same participants.

 

One other thing I forgot to mention was the importance of the military (and its actions) as broader tools of government diplomacy, in which 'prodding' and associated interceptions play a carefully-considered part.

Interceptor behaviour can change (but only down to a law/policy-based minima) based on the nature of relations between the antagonists. When relations are going splendidly, interceptions are kept fairly bland and straightforward When relations are strained, crews can - but will not always - be guided or ordered to exhibit various levels of force - but only down to the legal minima.

Such tactics and associated policies are generally not well reported in the public domain, which often leads to misunderstanding in the way that interceptions are managed and executed. If we use the South China Sea bunfight as an example, I dare say (speculation on my part) the Chinese authorise their crews to employ tactics we'd consider unprofessional only when relations are quite strained; otherwise, they probably keep a tight leash on their crews.

 

Some interesting articles on this issue (and the public misconception thereof) are:

https://thediplomat.com/2016/04/what-2-russian-jets-can-teach-us-about-a-us-china-clash-in-the-south-china-sea/

and

https://thediplomat.com/2015/09/south-china-sea-conflict-escalation-and-miscalculation-myths/

Edited by Blimpyboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for fun (and to stick it to the fighter pukes), always send a man to do a man's job...

 

rr6d7zqbdz111.jpg

 

Tu-142M&P-3C-Orion-1986-DN-SC-87-00265.j

 

1419703_47e09476f02053ec48f39b2e3c71e707

 

 

 

I s'pose I can cut attack drivers some slack:

A-6E_VA-95_And_Tu-95RTs_-_1982.jpg

 

h8VbGnX.jpg

 

 

 

And, why limit the annoyance to aircraft?

 

https://rideoutprotectorsoftherealm.tumblr.com/image/127939989661

 

gpw-20050822-UnitedStates-DVIC-DF-SN-83-

 

xme3wrahfb7y.jpg

 

JUjYIou.jpg

 

1437938_429fc089abc9f3ef59580153e2febd7f

 

1437945_225375c41a2ee791fc64b1e0715ccfde

 

1437949_2f578d898c706ae7ae9ae3b67fa9b75f

 

1437955_c1c4b6f44927b5d61271d6f805e6b3d3

 

1439146_b34654ef32ef427015fca1fa692f9f0f

 

1439164_6ee82757839e89ebd64963bcdca80b9a

 

1442006_6b4e6eeff74842e42a0a52a7acaca349

 

1441931_77143d134b5d6a7dc85623a2ab3e45b0

 

Soviet_Il-38_May_passing_low_over_USS_Mi

 

1439088_c6cfce0fe59c90df18fae399ca091287

 

1437943_784eca9c48c6fad2032547918644c52d

 

Edited by Blimpyboy
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A friend of mine (and fellow modeller) is a retired RAF Nimrod navigator. He relates the story of the time his aircraft formated alongside a Bear during an exercise. After some waving to each other and mutual photography the Bear started to pull away from the Nimrod, its smoke trails thickening as its engines wound up. The Nimrod pilot pushed the throttle forward to keep up, but eventually they had to settle for watching the Bear leave them behind.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NATO and US pilots can be as reckless and even more... I should know as I remember well when a USMC Prowler broke the cable of a cable-car while flying at high speed and very low level over Northern Italy in defiance of all regulations killing 20 people as a result... and being acquitted by their own military justice (but later sentenced for the destruction of a video of the events). And there have been plenty of other accidents caused by similar stupid behaviour.

And there have been many cases of very aggressive intercepts by USN pilots over the Mediterranean, particularly at times of tension with Libya. In the days after the Sigonella crisis F-14 pilots almost caused an accident by trying to control the route of the hijacked Egyptian 737 while this was under escort from Italian fighters.

This does not mean that USN pilots are reckless per se but simply that in those cases they put in their flying the level of "aggression" that was required to get the message to the intercepted aircraft.. somtimes going well below the legal minima. Someone higher up decided it was the right thing to do and they did it.

In a sense I can understand the sometimes "vigorous" behaviour of Russian interceptors these days, their country relations with the West are not too good at the moment and many times these interceptions are after all of US aircraft snooping close to Russian territory...

 

Edited by Giorgio N
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of the more recent intercepts have been over the Mediterranean. Last time I checked, Giorgio, Russia does not have a Mediterranean shore...

 

I agree with you about the EA-6B and the cable car, however. That was disgraceful on the USN's part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Truro Model Builder said:

Some of the more recent intercepts have been over the Mediterranean. Last time I checked, Giorgio, Russia does not have a Mediterranean shore...


But, the Russians do have a large base of operations in the Med (Syria), as do the US and the UK.

 

They also have a Black Sea Fleet that needs to access the Med on a daily basis.

Edited by Blimpyboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russian intercepts over the Mediterranean would be either on the Black Sea, that is in part Russian territory, or very close to areas where Russian forces are currently operating in armed conflicts, that is a situation where generally things are much more tense.

 

Regarding the recklessness of pilots in general, it should be said that it's one of those things that only comes out when accidents occur. At the same time similar stupid behaviours are often praised by us enthusiasts... how many times have we commented in awe on daring feats of flying ? Even if accidents like the Cermis cable car disasters were in the end caused by similar daring feats... if there's no accident we often think "wow, these are true pilots with steel man-parts", if there's an accident the comment is usually "ehi, that was pretty stupid"... since pilots are professionals paid to operate in certain environments they should always strictly follow all rules, be it in an interception or when flying around the mountains, but the fascination with the daredevil aviators is such that we are still in awe when we see something amazing, even if it's against all regulations

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

but the fascination with the daredevil aviators is such that we are still in awe when we see something amazing, even if it's against all regulations

 

Sadly, I couldn’t agree more.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...