jhutchi Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Seen this on sky news today. There is no story with it, just footage US 'spy' plane intercepted by Russian jet https://news.sky.com/video/share-12015853 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Nice footage. Makes a change for the Russian aircraft to keep its distance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said: Makes a change for the Russian aircraft to keep its distance. Heh! It’s an interesting cultural blind spot sometimes - we get upset about the Russians and Chinese doing it, but forget about the fact that everyone does it! https://theaviationgeekclub.com/that-time-a-soviet-su-27-flanker-collided-with-a-norwegian-p-3-orion-over-the-barents-sea/amp/ https://fighterjetsworld.com/air/four-swedish-viggen-pilots-protected-a-crippled-sr-71-blackbird/9534/ https://www.stripes.com/news/russian-jet-performs-unsafe-intercept-of-us-navy-plane-1.499761 https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/05/26/watch-russian-jets-intercept-navy-plane/ Edited June 29, 2020 by Blimpyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) What's Mandarin for "Maveriiiiiiiiiiiiiick!"? Edited June 29, 2020 by Blimpyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 A news report about a recent US bomber exercise off Russia's Eastern coast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Blimpyboy said: Heh! It’s an interesting cultural blind spot sometimes - we get upset about the Russians and Chinese doing it, but forget about the fact that everyone does it! Well, yes, but not everybody does it the same professional way. Was there ever a case about a western interceptor trying to play John Wayne? Alex Edited June 29, 2020 by alex typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, alex said: Was there ever a case about a western interceptor trying to play John Wayne? Who can say, but those who were there? To read Russian and Chinese (and everyone else's) accounts, you'd find there's any number of accusations against the opposing parties! Think back to the Hainan island EP-3/J-8 incident. The U.S. blames China https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/apr/13/china and China blames the U.S. https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/04/world/collision-china-overview-china-faults-us-incident-suggests-release-crew-hinges.html Deliberate flathatting or inexperience: https://www.flightglobal.com/swedish-sh37-viggen-crashes-photographing-/4283.article Who's in the right? Edited June 29, 2020 by Blimpyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Plus, bad press always outweighs the 99% that are indeed, professional: https://www.businessinsider.com/unsafe-nato-aircraft-intercepts-down-usually-fault-hot-dogging-pilot-2019-9?r=AU&IR=T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Agree on the point that the bad press outweighs the correct intercepts. But I assume if the west would do unsafe intercepts, the other side would make sure they get all the attention in the media. Fact is there is plenty of footage about bad procedures intercepts. But only few of them involve western interceptors... Alex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) I think you're right, in that 'Western' aircrews generally exhibit what we would call a greater level of 'professionalism' (but, check any NATO safety magazine for incidents of flathatting ending in fatalities). Still, do a detailed search of Chinese- and Russian-language press articles and you will find just as much reporting about Western unprofessionalism! There are a few photos in this article that show NATO crews flying in a manner that we would certainly consider 'unprofessional' today: https://theaviationist.com/2020/06/12/take-a-look-at-these-rare-photos-of-nato-fighters-intercepting-soviet-tu-95rt-bear-d-during-the-cold-war/ Plus, for historical context: https://theaviationist.com/2015/04/23/rc-135-aircraft-commander-explains/ and https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/09/we-did-barrel-rolls-around-tu-95s-at-the-request-of-the-soviets-f-4-wso-explains-the-story-of-the-phantom-upside-down-near-bear/ Edited September 26, 2020 by Blimpyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 NATO fast jet pilots can be as prone to stupidity as anyone else, but they do seem to realise the potential consequences of behaving like a c0ckw0mble when flying a high speed aircraft that is armed to the teeth in the proximity of large, slow moving targets bearing the markings of a not-entirely-friendly nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) They certainly do, as do most aircrew - dead is dead, after all. Standards differ widely between forces - I don't recall being briefed on any adversaries' likely tactics for interceptions, but sure as heck remember being warned about likely actions from 'allies' who wanted to scare the poor ASW drivers during exercises! Gramps would NOT have been happy... Edited June 29, 2020 by Blimpyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) I wish we'd received one of these for the bad guys in my day: https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercept-Procedures.pdf It would have been handy to have a little card, rather than just rely on verbal briefings. Mind you, despite the ICAO's best efforts, I'm not sure the Russians and half the Asian countries used these directions... Edited June 29, 2020 by Blimpyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Thank you for that link, Blimpyboy. At some time in the far distant past I came across something similar in a NATO publication regarding internationally agreed protocols for both intercepting AND intercepted aircraft, but I wish I'd made a copy at the time as I have never seen it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Hello I know it is Wikipedia, but still ... Read the second paragraph of that section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35#2015_Russian_military_intervention_in_Syria I think in such cases self-preservation kicks in and overrides juvenile impulses, excess of testosterone and other potentially harmful influences. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said: At some time in the far distant past I came across something similar in a NATO publication regarding internationally agreed protocols for both intercepting AND intercepted aircraft, but I wish I'd made a copy at the time as I have never seen it since. Nice! I do recall a maritime agreement, called INCSEA, from the early 1970s (showing my age, or what), which did cover all platforms in the maritime environment. INCSEA was international and the Soviets were signatories. I'm not sure if it exists in exactly the same form today, with the same participants. One other thing I forgot to mention was the importance of the military (and its actions) as broader tools of government diplomacy, in which 'prodding' and associated interceptions play a carefully-considered part. Interceptor behaviour can change (but only down to a law/policy-based minima) based on the nature of relations between the antagonists. When relations are going splendidly, interceptions are kept fairly bland and straightforward When relations are strained, crews can - but will not always - be guided or ordered to exhibit various levels of force - but only down to the legal minima. Such tactics and associated policies are generally not well reported in the public domain, which often leads to misunderstanding in the way that interceptions are managed and executed. If we use the South China Sea bunfight as an example, I dare say (speculation on my part) the Chinese authorise their crews to employ tactics we'd consider unprofessional only when relations are quite strained; otherwise, they probably keep a tight leash on their crews. Some interesting articles on this issue (and the public misconception thereof) are: https://thediplomat.com/2016/04/what-2-russian-jets-can-teach-us-about-a-us-china-clash-in-the-south-china-sea/ and https://thediplomat.com/2015/09/south-china-sea-conflict-escalation-and-miscalculation-myths/ Edited June 30, 2020 by Blimpyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) Just for fun (and to stick it to the fighter pukes), always send a man to do a man's job... I s'pose I can cut attack drivers some slack: And, why limit the annoyance to aircraft? https://rideoutprotectorsoftherealm.tumblr.com/image/127939989661 Edited September 26, 2020 by Blimpyboy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 A friend of mine (and fellow modeller) is a retired RAF Nimrod navigator. He relates the story of the time his aircraft formated alongside a Bear during an exercise. After some waving to each other and mutual photography the Bear started to pull away from the Nimrod, its smoke trails thickening as its engines wound up. The Nimrod pilot pushed the throttle forward to keep up, but eventually they had to settle for watching the Bear leave them behind. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) NATO and US pilots can be as reckless and even more... I should know as I remember well when a USMC Prowler broke the cable of a cable-car while flying at high speed and very low level over Northern Italy in defiance of all regulations killing 20 people as a result... and being acquitted by their own military justice (but later sentenced for the destruction of a video of the events). And there have been plenty of other accidents caused by similar stupid behaviour. And there have been many cases of very aggressive intercepts by USN pilots over the Mediterranean, particularly at times of tension with Libya. In the days after the Sigonella crisis F-14 pilots almost caused an accident by trying to control the route of the hijacked Egyptian 737 while this was under escort from Italian fighters. This does not mean that USN pilots are reckless per se but simply that in those cases they put in their flying the level of "aggression" that was required to get the message to the intercepted aircraft.. somtimes going well below the legal minima. Someone higher up decided it was the right thing to do and they did it. In a sense I can understand the sometimes "vigorous" behaviour of Russian interceptors these days, their country relations with the West are not too good at the moment and many times these interceptions are after all of US aircraft snooping close to Russian territory... Edited July 1, 2020 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Some of the more recent intercepts have been over the Mediterranean. Last time I checked, Giorgio, Russia does not have a Mediterranean shore... I agree with you about the EA-6B and the cable car, however. That was disgraceful on the USN's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 USA do not have a Black Sea shore either. Cheers Jure 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Truro Model Builder said: Some of the more recent intercepts have been over the Mediterranean. Last time I checked, Giorgio, Russia does not have a Mediterranean shore... But, the Russians do have a large base of operations in the Med (Syria), as do the US and the UK. They also have a Black Sea Fleet that needs to access the Med on a daily basis. Edited July 2, 2020 by Blimpyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Russian intercepts over the Mediterranean would be either on the Black Sea, that is in part Russian territory, or very close to areas where Russian forces are currently operating in armed conflicts, that is a situation where generally things are much more tense. Regarding the recklessness of pilots in general, it should be said that it's one of those things that only comes out when accidents occur. At the same time similar stupid behaviours are often praised by us enthusiasts... how many times have we commented in awe on daring feats of flying ? Even if accidents like the Cermis cable car disasters were in the end caused by similar daring feats... if there's no accident we often think "wow, these are true pilots with steel man-parts", if there's an accident the comment is usually "ehi, that was pretty stupid"... since pilots are professionals paid to operate in certain environments they should always strictly follow all rules, be it in an interception or when flying around the mountains, but the fascination with the daredevil aviators is such that we are still in awe when we see something amazing, even if it's against all regulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, Giorgio N said: but the fascination with the daredevil aviators is such that we are still in awe when we see something amazing, even if it's against all regulations Sadly, I couldn’t agree more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Another nice example of how NOT to do it. Subtitles are german, but I guess you get the message even if you don't speak the language... https://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/politik/Russische-Jets-bedraengen-US-Bomber-ueber-Schwarzem-Meer-article22005776.html Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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