Airfix Sunderland.

[Graham Boak]

There were no specific marine paints for aircraft, to my knowledge.  Although there's no complete list of Section 33B (i.e. paint) numbers known, certainly not published, none of the known ones are specified as for marine use.  That part of the hull below the waterline was covered in a coat of lanolin, which didn't help as far as stopping the general harbour muck from making a Sunderland's waterline very obvious.

[TonyW]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

That part of the hull below the waterline was covered in a coat of lanolin, 

 

I've just done an internet search for Lanolin. Very good for cracked nipples apparently!!

 

A completely new thing to me. Was it brushed on, or applied like a car wax? I'm talking planes here, not the other things, I would think it would darken any matt paint it went on

[PeterB]

Hi Tony,

 

All I know about lanolin is that AFAIK the wool textile industry in my home town of Bradford produced a lot of it as a side product of washing and cleaning the wool before weaving it. Another side effect of the wool industry was that the fertiliser produced from the waste at the local sewage works at Esholt was in high demand (my late father used it on his tomato plants etc) and was sold at a profit so "where there's muck, there's brass" was definitely true in that instance. All gone now of course, sadly.

 

I guess it was a sort of grease that was brushed/rubbed on, but am probably wrong. I also seem to remember that it was used as grease to pack the axle boxes of railway rolling stock?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited June 29, 2020 by PeterB

[LDSModeller]

8 hours ago, TonyW said:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Airfix portholes are too big and should have a frame around them

Hi Tony,

I have the Airfix kit (Red Nacelles version) in my collection

my Dad built for me years ago now.

To answer your query re the Port holes, I started building an Airfix Mk III

some time ago, including dealing with the Porthole issue see link below

Airfix Sunderland Mk III build

 

This is an actual opening Porthole off a Sunderland (only a portion of Portholes opened).

All Transparencies for the Portholes are the same (1:1 30.5cm =around 4.2mm in 1/72)

 

Depending on how far you want to go, you will need to add an extra porthole

at the stern end (Mk I has three instead of two), along with two ports Starboard side

in front of wing Leading edge, Mk I also had 4 Ports on spine of the Aircraft too

As an FYI the Mk I was actually wider at the base (read waterline) by around 10 inches,

(about 3mm in 1/72), than the Mk III

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

[TonyW]

Thanks Alan, your build was the one I remember!

 

I doubt I'll get even close to your level of detailing but I'll be having a go at the more prominent points. I'm a bit like a fish out of water once I stray from out the box, original builds but the Sunderland is such a good looking plane I'll at least be making an effort.

 

I've ordered a couple of books on the subject and once they have arrived I'll be making a list of what needs modifying closely followed by a shorter list of what I think I can achieve.

 

Tony.

[malpaso]

Re your query about primer, when I built DAG heavily weathered, my thinking was the DE/DG was an emergency and temporary slap on to break up the outline of the aircraft  when moored or ashore, such a rush job no primer was used, just straight over the existing aluminium paint. Hence why it’s peeled off in sheets!

Cheers

Will

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, TonyW said:

the Sunderland is such a good looking plane

It surely is, in or out of the water

 

I have the actual Sunderland Mk I M&E manual, so if

you have any queries re the Mk I just let me know.

 

Look forward to your build

 

Regards

 

Alan

[AdrianC]

What memories this is all bringing back as I sell the one I made in 1964 with a huge lot of other built kits from the time (downsizing at home and swmbo wants space). Memories of putting then legal fireworks in them and blowing them up!

 

I do intend to return to modelling when retirement and downsizing dust settles down.  I am attracted to the Special Hobby Sunderland MkV for the detailed interior but would want to model an early WW2 UK based aircraft as crewed by a family friend (with amazing stories like nearly being blown out the rear turret!

 

Does the Special Hobby model lend itself to easy conversion to a Mk1 or MkIII?

[stever219]

1 hour ago, AdrianC said:

Does the Special Hobby model lend itself to easy conversion to a Mk1 or MkIII?

The Mk. V was developed from the Mk. III, the main difference being the engines and propellers.  Where the Mk. III had an offset dorsal turret the Mk. V had a hatch either side just aft of the wing root fairing trailing edge for defensive armament.  The Mk. V radar scanners were installed in a radome under each wing tip outboard of the floats whereas the Mk. III had the yogi “stickleback” arrangement.  There are plenty of other differences but I can’t remember all of them just now.

[LDSModeller]

6 hours ago, AdrianC said:

Does the Special Hobby model lend itself to easy conversion to a Mk1 or MkIII?

Short Answer, no.

While the fuselage parts are in the kit, the Wings/Engines/Propellers/cowlings

turrets/flight deck included in kit will not allow you to back date to a MK I or III

 

Regards

 

Alan

[TonyW]

A few reference books joined my library this week, the Warpaint one is probably the best for this build but the other two both have good material in them. A couple of good shots of the early hull have already come in handy.

 

 

The reverse cut of the early hull bottom was a lot easier than I expected. I cut back from the V where the late hull flairs out, straight across the separation line. Then I cut horizontally into the hull rear about an inch or so, and bent the curved hull into a flat shape, pointing towards the slash cut step. Plastic card and Milliput sorted out the rough shape and I'm ready to sand into final shape.

 

 

 

Next job will be the topside gunners cuttouts. Once the holes are in place I'll have more of an idea how much interior detailing will be needed there.

[modelling minion]

Off to a good start there Tony.

Some nice looking references that have arrived, any answers to the question of colours to be found in them?

[TonyW]

8 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

Off to a good start there Tony.

Some nice looking references that have arrived, any answers to the question of colours to be found in them?

 

The two hardbacks have no colour references. The Warpaint one has a couple of DE/DG side views but no references as to how the colours were decided on for the artwork. There's a few pictures in B+W in all three books showing planes with high contrast schemes that suggest to me that they might be DE/DG. That's good enough for me!

[TonyW]

While awaiting further progress to continue on the build, take a peek at one I did earlier. One of the first builds when we moved into our current address which makes it about six years ago. The Type 5 box in the background is, I think, the best Airfix Sunderland one. The bigger T5 boxes gave Roy Cross more room to move in.

 

The paintjob is a bit of a flight of fancy. I took elements of a whole load of Sunderland pictures and came up with this sorta, so-so scheme. Not one for the purist, but it kept me happy while I built it.

 

The kit itself didn't get finished. The top Turret and an exhaust manifold went AWOL and the model is currently boxed up somewhere in the loft.

 

 

 

 

The fanciful scheme on that one is nothing compared to my next crime against Sunderlands!

 

I've recently bought a collection of very old built models. The earliest is a thirties Skybird Hart with most being very early days Airfix builds. In amongst them was this beat to death Sunderland...

 

 

Nearly all the busted bits are there for a rebuild. Normally I would consider this one too far gone, but check out that plastic colour! A very rare tan.

The early Sunderland kits were usually white making this one an unusual collectors piece. It's a bit on the big side and pretty shabby as is to keep just as a conversation piece, so I'm giving it a basic renovation.

I've made up a semi plausible scheme that allows the bare tan plastic to show. The model needs more repair, the whole nose was caved in and then repaired at some point, possibly a fall from ceiling height? I would like to think so.

There's so much about this build that shows the origins of plastic kit building. A big kit like this may well have been a Christmas or Birthday present and opening the thing would have been pretty exiting. Imagine the shock of the tan plastic though! It's Christmas day, no white paint left, only a tin of humbrol brown available and the desperate need to build!! It could have happened.

It was finished to an OK standard but unpainted. ( I removed the flaking transfers as they were too damaged to save) I like to think I've stayed true to early builders methods by using minimal extras. I used an original transfer sheet for an Airfix Sunderland, complete with bright red roundel centres. They started cracking up but I got them on in the end.

 

 

Anyway, enough waffle, here's the poor old model as it sits this evening.

 

 

The Duck Egg Green is going to be replaced with silver. Something about the green doesn't look right, which is a bit ironic given the rest of the paintjob!

 

Here's something that made me smile, check out one of the original pilots. Top 'tash or what? The white bod is from the current build. Same figure, just the mould gone a bit soft.

 

 

 

 

I'll finish this one off tomorrow and then it's back on with the Mk1. Honest.

 

Tony.

 

.

[PeterB]

Hi Tony,

 

As it isd sort of a desert finish, how about Azure Blue unders?

 

Pete

[TonyW]

7 hours ago, PeterB said:

Hi Tony,

 

As it isd sort of a desert finish, how about Azure Blue unders?

 

Pete

That's a good idea. I'll have an experiment today.

 

Quite why a Sunderland would need desert cammo is anyones guess but I'm too far in to stop now! 😄

[Mike Dean]

8 hours ago, TonyW said:

Quite why a Sunderland would need desert cammo is anyones guess but I'm too far in to stop now! 😄

Working out of Alexandria, down the Red Sea to Aden then across the Arabian Sea on to India? It works for me.....

[TonyW]

1 hour ago, Mike Dean said:

Working out of Alexandria, down the Red Sea to Aden then across the Arabian Sea on to India? It works for me.....

I had completely forgotten about that route Mike, can't think how that might have happened! Well remembered that man.

 

Big Bird has azure plumage on her belly now and it looks all the better for it. Thanks Pete, a good Get out of Jail card played there.

 

 

A bit of a disaster occurred when I tried to ram a lump of Milliput into the nose to replace the missing chunk right at the front. The Frankenstein repair already in place collapsed under the strain and I had to put Humpty back together again.  It's all glued up again now and should be set enough to refinish the nose later.

The canopy got masked and painted and looks much better. The seam along the fuselage is screaming at me to fix it, but I'm having none of it. There's no point putting lipstick on a pig, is there?

I'm giving this old warhorse a bit too much attention really, but I'm reluctant to shove it in a box and forget about it. It's nearly finished enough to maybe hang from the roof of my shed. That could be the model finally returning home again!

 

Oh, that bit about me getting back to the Mk1 today... I lied. 😄

 

[Mike Dean]

I think the clue is in the word "ram" there Tony! Nice idea for a colour scheme though -  Looks like the early C-130 Hercules. My suggested route is purely fictitious BTW, but sounds plausible enough to deserve a desert camo paintjob. 

[TonyW]

Here's the thread intruder again, showing off the azure a bit better. No full on underside shot yet, still work to do there.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mike Dean said:

I think the clue is in the word "ram" there Tony! Nice idea for a colour scheme though -  Looks like the early C-130 Hercules. My suggested route is purely fictitious BTW, but sounds plausible enough to deserve a desert camo paintjob. 

 

I have a Black Belt in full contact modelling Mike. Kits and me have an understanding.

 

Your route sounds entirely plausible to me, the fact I've done a Sunderland in desert cammo is pure coincidence, honest.

 

 ...A lie will get around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

[Mike Dean]

Are you quite sure that's Azure? Running away very quickly...................

[TonyW]

8 minutes ago, Mike Dean said:

Are you quite sure that's Azure? Running away very quickly...................

That's what it said on the tin, not Ronseal I'll grant you, just common or garden Humbrol Authentics. You have got me doubting enough to take a trip down to the shed though...

 

I'll be back.

[TonyW]

It says authentic on the tin, so it must be. Shame the colour scheme is pure fantasy though...

 

[Mike Dean]

4 minutes ago, TonyW said:

It says authentic on the tin, so it must be. ...........

That's good enough for me.

 

I can just see that hanging from your shed roof. Clear plastic spinners? Can we also have a shot of the painted "Wingco" with his bally top notch soup strainer before he's dicky-birded in his crate? Hairy blighter.........

[modelling minion]

Ooh yes please, we must have a close up of that fantastic moustache painted up!