HMS Edinburgh in 1/600 (Airfix HMS Belfast from 1973).

[Terry1954]

On 7/9/2020 at 7:38 PM, TallBlondJohn said:

If I was doing it aqain, I'd thicken the sides first with something that will will be strong and sand well, but wont melt anything. Car body filler?

My go to heavy duty "filler" will always be Dolgellau's finest (Milliput). It gives you plenty of time to work it, and after a proper setting period, is as strong as anything I have used and can be drilled, turned (even threaded), filed, cast you name it, and as far as I'm aware it has no "melting" properties that might affect adjacent plastic. I've used it to add inner strength and solidity inside vac form aircraft. If you happen to sand away the original plastic at points, no matter. Obviously on ship models of this size and for back filling long areas of hull you would need a fair bit. A fellow modeller has even used it as the main component in scratch built wings in 1/32 WWI aircraft, but that's another story!

 

I'm following this one with interest, as at some point I intend to model the cruiser HMS Birmingham in 1/350. It's looking like my options are currently either sourcing a WEM Sheffield (hen's teeth syndrome) or drastically modifying Trumpeters Belfast. In the latter case I'd better start stocking up on the Milliput!

 

You have made a great start!

 

Terry

[TallBlondJohn]

6 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

I am planning to mount this one on a plinth, is the usual thing to just epoxy some nuts in the hull to screw onto at a later date?

 

Phew, glad it turned out so well. Seems milliput is the way to go.

 

I haven't done it myself, but yes, the usual plinth approach is to put the nuts in now and mount later.

[Chewbacca]

Everything Terry says about Milliput is true, or so I'm told.  I know that large numbers of modellers on here and others in my local clubs all swear by the stuff, but why is it that I have so many problems with it?  I can mix the two different parts of the epoxy for ages but they never seem to fully mix and all that happens is that my hands end up being covered in this grotty, stiff Plasticine like substance that then starts to go hard before I apply it to the model and when it does set hard, it invariably shrinks and falls off anyway.  My most recent set went solid in its box after I'd only used about 1/4 inch of each strip in a 6-7 month period despite them being tightly wrapped in separate clingfilm "sausages".

 

I'm sure it's me, not the Milliput!

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Everything Terry says about Milliput is true, or so I'm told.  I know that large numbers of modellers on here and others in my local clubs all swear by the stuff, but why is it that I have so many problems with it?  I can mix the two different parts of the epoxy for ages but they never seem to fully mix and all that happens is that my hands end up being covered in this grotty, stiff Plasticine like substance that then starts to go hard before I apply it to the model and when it does set hard, it invariably shrinks and falls off anyway.  My most recent set went solid in its box after I'd only used about 1/4 inch of each strip in a 6-7 month period despite them being tightly wrapped in separate clingfilm "sausages".

 

I'm sure it's me, not the Milliput!

 

I've got some but hate the stuff. I use it very occassionally when everything else is clearly not going to work, but it would not be an exaggeration to state that several models have been stuffed back in a box and hidden because I have such distaste for it. I can usually get it mixed after using a similar number of threats a colourful Scottish swearwords as required to remove a broken exhaust manifold stud from a cylinder head in a wrong wheel drive car with typically poor access. Having half mixed resin coating my hands disgusts me and I've even preferred to try washing in acetone and MEK rather than suffer that, and it always falls off anyway and needs glued back on with superglue.

 

Infact I treat it as a nasty way to make resin inserts with the full expectation that it will need glued in properly later. I find it truely dreadful stuff, but, unfortunately, sometimes it's an evil that I am unable to avoid on the types of projects I otherwise enjoy.

 

I've got some similar epoxy stuff from Infini Model now which is a bit softer, mixes easier and tends to stick to the model better, but the repulsion of having to mix it up is still there and gloves just get rolled up in it, so I don't willingly use that either.

[Terry1954]

Well Ralph and Jamie, what can I say? It has honestly always worked for me, although I suspect it can "go off" over time, so maybe a shelf life issue, but that said, I've had some of mine for years!

 

I have been known to turn water into wine though................. or is it the other way round..........😜

 

Terry

[Graham Boak]

What are you guys doing, mixing it with your hands?  If you mix it on foil using a spatula (or in a milk bottle top using a cocktail stick) then you don't get it on your hands - ok, maybe a bit on your fingertips sometimes.

 

I've never experienced any of the problems mentioned other than it drying up due to age - I have seen it said that it keeps better in a fridge, but I haven't tried it.  I can imagine that perhaps some of the problems may stem from either not getting equal amounts of the two, or not mixing them thoroughly enough, but that's maybe because I can't think of anything else.  Unless it is some kind of reaction to the normal oil on human hands?  As far as poor adhesion, this will happen to any filler trying to attach to a smooth surface.  I always roughen up the surface with some knife cuts in order to provide a key for the filler to attach to.  Use the spatula/knife blade/whatever to press in into the surface if you are working on the inside of a hull (as seems likely here).

[OutcastJoel]

Thank you all, I have no idea why I didn't think of milliput.

I don't really enjoy using it for much the same reasons described above especially the sticking strongly to my hands and not to anything else.

 

I will try mixing it using a spatula as per the suggestion from @Graham Boak.

 

As it is in this instance I just used a metric shed load of sprue goo (a rather good use for Humbrol polycement imo) and just tried to minimise contact time to prevent melting.

 

The downside of the sprue goo is that it has dried really hard and I think I probably have a few more nights of nothing but sanding ahead...  

 

@Terry1954 I have some information that @TallBlondJohn provided me with about the work involved to make Edinburgh specifically. There are a few side references to the earlier ships, I wil dig through to see if I can find anything of note to share. 

 

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, OutcastJoel said:

@Terry1954 I have some information that @TallBlondJohn provided me with about the work involved to make Edinburgh specifically. There are a few side references to the earlier ships, I wil dig through to see if I can find anything of note to share. 

That would be most helpful, thanks!

 

Terry

[Chewbacca]

11 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

I've got some but hate the stuff. I use it very occassionally when everything else is clearly not going to work, but it would not be an exaggeration to state that several models have been stuffed back in a box and hidden because I have such distaste for it. I can usually get it mixed after using a similar number of threats a colourful Scottish swearwords as required to remove a broken exhaust manifold stud from a cylinder head in a wrong wheel drive car with typically poor access. Having half mixed resin coating my hands disgusts me and I've even preferred to try washing in acetone and MEK rather than suffer that, and it always falls off anyway and needs glued back on with superglue.

I'm glad it's not just me!

 

11 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

What are you guys doing, mixing it with your hands?  If you mix it on foil using a spatula (or in a milk bottle top using a cocktail stick) then you don't get it on your hands - ok, maybe a bit on your fingertips sometimes.

 

I've never experienced any of the problems mentioned other than it drying up due to age - I have seen it said that it keeps better in a fridge, but I haven't tried it.  I can imagine that perhaps some of the problems may stem from either not getting equal amounts of the two, or not mixing them thoroughly enough, but that's maybe because I can't think of anything else.  Unless it is some kind of reaction to the normal oil on human hands?  As far as poor adhesion, this will happen to any filler trying to attach to a smooth surface.  I always roughen up the surface with some knife cuts in order to provide a key for the filler to attach to.  Use the spatula/knife blade/whatever to press in into the surface if you are working on the inside of a hull (as seems likely here).

Obviously I'm getting very different Milliput to you Graham (most recently I've been using Superfine White but have had the yellow/grey in the past).  Even when opening a brand new box, I unwrap the "sausages" and the contents are so stiff that all I can do to get some off is to saw through it with a model knife.  There's no way that a cocktail stick would come anywhere near getting the two blobs to mix - I would have thought that the amount of pressure needed to get them together would break the stick or rip the tin foil.  

 

The only thought I had is that knowing that it is water soluble, would adding a few drops of water to the mix help in the process?

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

14 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm glad it's not just me!

 

Obviously I'm getting very different Milliput to you Graham (most recently I've been using Superfine White but have had the yellow/grey in the past).  Even when opening a brand new box, I unwrap the "sausages" and the contents are so stiff that all I can do to get some off is to saw through it with a model knife.  There's no way that a cocktail stick would come anywhere near getting the two blobs to mix - I would have thought that the amount of pressure needed to get them together would break the stick or rip the tin foil.  

 

The only thought I had is that knowing that it is water soluble, would adding a few drops of water to the mix help in the process?

 

I recognise the 3 or 4 packets I've had in your description there. The sticks I've got / have had must be cut and although they could probably be mixed by a substantial stick once half-way there, initially at least the forces needed to get them to change shape, let alone mix, are pretty significant. I find it to require heavy kneading with the heel of my hands similar to performing CPR. 

[Terry1954]

20 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

The only thought I had is that knowing that it is water soluble, would adding a few drops of water to the mix help in the process?

Thinking about it, I do that a lot when I use it. Also I think that although storing it cool, preserves it's shelf life, it can be worked more easily when slightly warmer. It usually takes a few minutes of working it with my hands to warm up. When life returns to more normality, I can bring some to one of our club meets and show how I use it?

 

Terry

[Graham Boak]

Sounds like old stock.  I would normally slice it with a modelling knife with a single stroke.  I'm trying to think of a comparison: just a bit more resistant than a banana?   I there an equivalent to the Mohr scale?  I have to agree that a cocktail stick was perhaps being optimistic, even a blunted one,  but a short piece of plastic runner should be enough to get it started and keep it moving.  Once it does go hard then it is best to abandon it - the grey one used to grow a brown coat which could be trimmed off (had to be trimmed off) to get a workable piece.  I don't think I've had a white one go hard, but then I haven't used it for a while and perhaps prefer not to unwrap it "just for a gander".

 

There are of course alternatives that keep getting recommended on modelling  boards, which mainly seem to be putties for  car bodies - American modellers wax enthusiastic about something called Bondo which I've not seen on UK shelves

[mollythedog]

I have read some of the comments here with interest. I have been using Milliput for about 25 years. It is not perfect, it does have some issues,but here are some tips that will help.

 

1) Use the cheapest "Grey/Green" one,forget the rest.Just don't......

 

2) Try to buy some from a place with high turnover,like an art or sculptors suppliers (Tirantis for example)- it ages and if is has sat on a shelf or display for years it will be past it,it isn't date stamped or anything so the only way is to buy it as fresh as possible.

 

3) Keep the sticks well closed in their bags, just wrapped as they came,with the end folded over and put back in the box. Note on the box the date and place you bought,for next time and know "your" age on it.

 

4) I have found that mixing it 80/100, that is to say 4 parts light green to 5 parts dark green gives better results. Whatever you do,at the end you will always, always end up with more light green. Chuck it.

 

)5 keep a finger bowl of water handy, it helps to keep you hands very lightly damp if mixing large amounts. But for small amounts,that is say smaller than a pea of each it won't matter.

 

6) Apply using a smooth metal tool, or a modded old scalpel blade (use a Dremel to shape an old blade into a rounded or chisel ended,but blunt spatula) and apply firmly. Once you have some where you want it apply more,it will stick to itself really well.

 

7) Use gentle heat such as radiator,if the model can stand it,for warming it while is sets-it will set harder and quicker,in an hour or so. Or sunlight. "pot life" is about 20-25 mins if used at typical room temps. 

 

There are more,but this is enough for now. It is really good,better than almost anything else I have tried, but bin your old almost black sticks and get some fresh stuff!! 

 

HTH  

 

mtd

 

[Niall]

5 other points about using Milliput -

1) If the darker colour part has formed a crust, cut this off and discard it, as it will not mix in.

2) Once mixed leave it for 5-10 minutes.

3) Working with water is a good idea. For some jobs I use talc, usually for things like sandbags and the splinter "bags" on RN ships. For things like this roll out the Milliput on a talc covered sheet of plasticard or glass(Like rolling pastry) and cut to shape and press folds and creases into it with sculpting tools.

4) Milliput has a non-linear curing time with temperature. Under 5^oC it takes about 3 days to cure, between 15-25^oC it takes 3 hours, over 60^oC it takes 30 minutes.

5) The Terracotta Brown version is not as sticky as the standard type.

 

A photo of a resin casting of a 1/16th scale rolled sleeping bag made using the talc method -

 

[mollythedog]

I think that both the white and terracotta were made for repairing china and pottery. Have never used the latter,hated the white one, horrible. You are correct about the crust on the darker one,removed and you have fresh stuff underneath,but by that stage the light one is going "off"-it refuses to mix and combine with the dark one, just sticks to your fingers and everything but the other part. It has had it. Also when applying the second layer to the first it helps to moisten your finger,tool or whatever so that the mixed milliput sticks to the stuff already in place and not you. Like you I have used it many times for sandbags, bedrolls,tilts etc on vehicles, blast bags and sculpting figures or modding commercial ones. And then there is the DIY,it is superb for repairing mouldings such as door arcitraves and skirting,it dries hard and sand perfectly,the repair is invisible and solid forever after. Forget that wood stuff sold in DIY places,this is much better! Once you get the hang of it you'll always find uses for it.

[OutcastJoel]

I am almost finished with getting the sides acceptably smooth. (Still) It has been a constant cycle of sanding, filling and then parking for several days to harden before beginning over again. 

 

A few things which I could do with clarifying.

- Should the bow profile (ie join between port and starboard) be sharp or should it have the slightly rounded shape at the front that Airfix moulded it with. 

 

- I assume the paravane bulge at the base of the bow (I think that is what it is) is right but I can't find any references to it.

 

 

 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

16 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

- I assume the paravane bulge at the base of the bow (I think that is what it is) is right but I can't find any references to it.

Gidday, AFAIK what you're referring to I've called a chin plate at the forefoot. And yes, it's for towing the paravanes. Also AFAIK most RN heavy cruisers and battle-wagons of that era had it fitted. No doubt there will be exceptions. While photos would rarely show the chin plate unless you can find a photo of the bow in drydock a give-away is seeing the chains that lead down from the extreme bow to the chin plate. That would indicate to me that it was fitted. HTH. Regards, Jeff.

[Pak75]

Quote

On 21/08/2020 at 20:10, OutcastJoel said:

. (Still) It has been a constant cycle of sanding, filling and then parking for several days to harden before beginning over again. 

Hi 

I feel your pain as I am going through same on my HMAS Sydney. I have used Tamiya putty for bulk fill where needed and then Mr Surfacer 500. Mr Surfacer can be built up in layers and I am getting better results with it than anything else. If you do not apply Tamiya putty quickly or try and work it, it tends to tear and creates more dimples which then have to be filled...

 

[OutcastJoel]

I finally got around to applying the armour belt: 

20200909_192717_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

 

[OutcastJoel]

Well I lost motivation for a bit but I have finally got back on it.

I have reconstructed a fairleads and some other details that got destroyed in the sanding and also finished drawing up improved 6inch Mk 23 turrets.

Edinburgh Turret by OutcastJoel, on Flickr