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opus999

1/72 Spitfire Mk. XII

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I have been slowly working on a collection of different Spitfire Marks.  I have been ignoring the "lesser Marks" (e.g., VI, VII, XII) because kits don't seem to be readily available.  Well, I found the italeri Mk. VI and learned how to make a VII using the Quickboost conversion set.  Which brings me to the XII, which is one of my favorite marks and (except for a Czech resin kit, and an old xtrakit release) seems to have no 1/72 kits of it.

 

I read someone had kitbashed a 1/48 scale Mk. XII (maybe before the Airfix or Special Hobby kits were available), by using a Mk. V with a Mk. XIV cowl (shortened).  But reading about the various spitfire kits out there, I realize that fuselage diameters can vary, which makes mating the two fuselage parts problematic.

 

so, a couple questions:

  1. Has anyone kitbashed a Mk. XII in 1/72 before?
  2. If yes, what are the brands of kits you recommend?
  3. There is a blister on top of the cowl just behind the propeller, any suggestions how to make it? If I could find some scale drawings I could probably make it from epoxy putty.

 

I know there were some conversion kits (Brigade and Paragon) that I look for on flea bay whenever I remember, but I've never seen them available. Hyperscale had an article from 2007 about a kitbashed 1/72 Mk. XII and the author detailed what kits he used, but I'm not sure they're all still available and he left out some important details!

 

Any ideas are welcome! 

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8 minutes ago, opus999 said:

 seems to have no 1/72 kits of it.

Xtrakit did one.

if you google it, lots of hits.

for example

 

 

Apparently part of the Sword line, and has issues.  People like @Beard @Cookenbacher @72modeler @The Wooksta!  for example will be better able to give you a run down on 72nd Spitfires.

 

Also look for Seafire XV kits, as they use the same short Griffon.  

 

HTH

 

HTH

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Thanks Troy!  I mentioned the xtrakit, but have not been able to find one.

 

The thread you linked to above I had started reading at lunch today, but only got a couple of pages into it.  I was also looking at info on the VI, and VII and I think I got them mixed up in my head.  So thanks!  I'll go back and pick up where I left off!

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Posted (edited)

That's easy.  Easy peasy.  That's right up my particular field of expertise that is.

 

But it's not cheap, although you do get a lot of Seafires and spare bits. 

 

The Sword 5 seafire set?  Nab it.  Take the Seafire 15 stinger one and remove the rudder before denavalising it (ie get rid of all the fishplates) and build the fuselage as per the distructions.  Then take the spare wing from the Seafire III in the same set and clip the tips and replace with the clipped tips from a Fujimi XIV or an AZ mk IX (The latter will also give you spare tailplanes.  Others may know for sure but I don't know when, how many airframes or even if the mk XII had the later mk IX tailplanes with the larger horn balance and revised shape).  It may need some sanding around the interface with the lower cowling to get it to fit better.  An Airfix Ia/IIa kit should give you the larger oil cooler, whilst a Fujimi XIV should have the underwing blisters for the PRXIX they did which are about the right size and rough shape for the blister atop the mk XII upper cowling.  Finally, either an AZ or Eduard mk IX will give you the pointed rudder.

 

I did have a more involved recipe, using mainly spares and strategic use of aftermarket, but the above is the easiest route.

 

Founhd it in the relevant thread on the Sword 5 in one Seafire set (worth having anyway)

 

If they're straight reboxes of the original Sword plastic, the Seafire III came with a spare Vc wing and the Seafire 17 with a spare Seafire 15 fuselage - you're halfway there.  Add in the Quickboost resin top cowl for the Fujimi Griffon Spits (will need surgery), spare tailplanes from an AZ mk IX, larger oil cooler from the Airfix Spitfire IIa/Va, rudder, guns, u/c, doors, wheels tailwheel and doors from the Eduard kits.  You've pretty much got all you need largely from spares.  I think you just have to source a radiator, canopy and prop from somewhere else.

Edited by The Wooksta!
Building a Death Star

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The Brigade conversion is a little rough; molded on exhausts for instance, but it does turn a Mk V into a Mk XII. I used a Sword Mk V instead of the prescribed Italeri, but it fit just fine.

The CMR resin kit is very nice, but the fuselage is noticeably short - which is a bummer since all other CMR Spitfire marks are known for their accuracy.

 

The finished Brigade conversion and CMR can be seen here:

Forgive the Photobucket cursed pics, and the Mk 21 that's superfluous to this discussion.

 

I hesitate to link to my attempt at the Xtrakit/Sword Mk XII because it ended terribly (not the kit's fault at all, just a paint disaster on the topcoat brought on by my own refusal to use the proper paint with the proper airbrush). But you can see how it goes together anyway:

 

All of these paths to a 1/72 Mk XII are rare finds nowadays and a new tooled kit would be welcomed.

@The Wooksta! has pointed out the plan that is most readily available to us right now.

 

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Posted (edited)

It would definitely be most welcomed in my collection, the XII is my all time favorite mark. 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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Posted (edited)

Hopefully, this will add to what others have written.

 

The Xtrakit XII was made by Sword and has been been out of production for years. I emailed Sword, a couple of years ago, asking if they had plans to re-issue it and they said no.

 

An alternative is the Model News kit - I've got one in the stash but haven't looked at it for a while so won't comment on it - or the Aeroclub vacform conversion.

 

There's Warrior Models kit but I've never seen one and can't find much info on it. 

 

All in all, I'd go with what @The Wooksta!suggests and use the Sword Seafire XV as the starting point for a conversion.

 

Edit: I've just braved the loft and found that I don't have a Model News Spitfire.

Edited by Beard

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Hi there

I used Brigade XII conversion set a few years to build this Spitfire so you can make your own judgement of the Brigade set.

 

regards Toby

 

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The other alternative is to find a Ventura Seafire XV.  The Ventura kits have been rereleased by Jays but  I don't know whether the XV is included.

 

That's the first Brigade conversion I've seen, but it doesn't convince.  Fortunately I still have both an Aeroclub conversion and an Xtrakit - and a Ventura XV but that's staying as it is.

 

 

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It's a pity that Brigade used the Italeri - one of the poorer Spitfire V's - as their starting point.

Maybe, some time in the future, somebody will offer a conversion based on the forthcoming Airfix Vc….

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Posted (edited)

I am one of those modellers who have kitbashed a Mk.XII together ! However I did so several years ago using what I had in the stash, so should I do it again (and I may do it again...) I would not use the same kits.

My build used the old KP kit as a basis, onto which I grafted a home made copy of the Fujimi Spitfire XIV nose. IIRC it was a copy made from some DIY resin I had bought at the local Halford's store, not ideal for our purposes but did the job. Some parts came from other kits or the Aeroclub range: the water radiator was from Matchbox, the Mk.V style oil radiator was a resin copy of IIRC the Airfix part, exhausts and propeller were from Aeroclub.  Last but not least, the blister on top of the cowling started as a bomb from IIRC the Matchbox F-16, sliced in two along its length and sanded to the right depth. The main KP parts were rescribed to have recessed panel lines all over.  The old KP kit is of course quite basic however had a couple of advantages: the wings were already moulded as clipped and parts for both the fixed and retractable tailwheels were included.

 

Today I would start from something different ! I like the Wooksta's idea of using the Sword Seafires but I may also start from a good Mk.IX like the Eduard kit and do the same nose transplant. I would have to check the relative width of the two fuselages though, I should do this one of these days, Cloning the Ventura Seafire XV nose could be an option but I'd like to check the accuracy of these kits first; when I checked their Seafire 47 with the Airfix Mk.22 there were serious differences.

The problem with stating from a Mk.IX is that the radiator arrangement is different from the Mk.XII. Replacing the radiator itself is easy, parts from other kits or aftermarket items will solve this. What is more complicated is to fill the hole left by the Mk.IX radiators.

Starting from a Mk.Vc would make things much easier ! Problem is that there aren't many Vc kits easily available but Airfix is going to issue one soon. The Vc would lack the retractable tailwheel, so this would have to be be found elsewhere if building one of the aircraft so equipped. Personally I have a good supply of spares from the Eduard Mk.VIII/IX kits and I'll get it from there.

Edited by Giorgio N

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6 hours ago, The Wooksta! said:

The Sword 5 seafire set?  Nab it.  ...

 

I've been really tempted to do this, and from looking into the subject myself I've come to the conclusion this is almost certainly the best way at the moment to get a XII in 1/72 (though I am yet to try it).

 

28 minutes ago, Denford said:

It's a pity that Brigade used the Italeri - one of the poorer Spitfire V's - as their starting point.

Maybe, some time in the future, somebody will offer a conversion based on the forthcoming Airfix Vc….

 

Or maybe Airfix will get around to doing a XII in 1/72 properly? Or someone else?

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Well it won't be AZ apparently ;) The suggestion to do that met the same end as many a diver did at the hands of a Mk.XII.

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Posted (edited)

Can't see why they won't do it considering that there isn't a mk XII available and there is a demand for a kit, so a limited run of 500 or so would sell,  I'd have a couple and I've a *VERY* good stash of Spitfires!  Given that stash, I don't need to try my recipe above, although I'll give it a spin when I go back to Spitfires.

 

Beard, I'd ditch that Model News mk XII as it's nigh on unbuildable - I know at least  two guys who've binned it.  Mine went ages ago.

 

Didn't know about Warrior had done one but I do have what I think is a Czech resin one but the breakdown is weird - the wings and tailplane are moulded with the fuselage but it's split vertically like any normal kit.

 

Brigade's fuselage will take other wings - I took one look at the suggestion to use Italeri and said several thing that would be likely to get me banned.  I used an Airfix Ia wing and did a speculative IVa.  Brigade's conversion isn't that cheap either and it's really an (incorrect) Seafire XV as all the fishplates are moulded on as recessed lines (see also Czechmaster Seafires).

 

I've picked up various conversions over the years.  The aforemention Aeroclub vacform fuselage whih is quite probably the best you'll get if you can find one. Canovac did an engine and spinner in a weird black resin.  I was gifted a home copied mould.  A bag of bits picked up at a show yielded two resin noses and a master in primer.  The latter appeared to be identical to a white metal conversion set I'd been gifted a few years earlier and there was no brand name on the instructions.  Asking around, it appeared that some guy was selling them at Donnington in the early 90s and promtly vanished.

Edited by The Wooksta!
God told me

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This is my take, inspired by what @The Wooksta! had suggested although I couldn't find the Sword Seafire - I went for a Ventura late Seafire XV using the Eduard broad chord rudder, Airfix circular oil cooler, trimming the wingtips and scratching the magneto bump.

 

49312117951_6b889f6369_z.jpg

 

50046531026_731be2c863_z.jpg

 

Am now trying the accumulate the bits necessary to build a Seafire XV! 

 

IanJ
 

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Jays rereleased one of the Venture XVs - I don't have one as the former are easy to find at a relatively cheap price.

 

It's not the basis I'd recommend, although Ventura's Spitfires were very accurate in outline, largely due to the very limited rub nature of the moulds and the lack of detail parts.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, The Wooksta! said:

Can't see why they won't do it

The main reason I can see why this mark is seldom touched by model manufacturers is that there's essentially zero scope for re-boxing with different markings or using the molds to make a related version. It's so unique they'd be tooling for the XII and XII alone and releasing a single box and that's it. That's probably very expensive relative to say... tooling a V or a IX that, if you're clever with optional parts, you can then reissue dozens of times with different decals and sub-versions.

 

Even the Seafire XV, arguably a more obscure mark than the XII and with little combat record, has more scope for re-boxing with colourful markings (think foreign service) and slight variations in fit. And it has more shared parts (I'm thinking wing) with other late Griffons. Which is why I assume Sword has done Seafires XV, XVII and Spitfires XIV high and low back but haven't touched the XII despite the fact they could easily tool it just by mixing parts from their back-catalogue and tweaking some molds only slightly.

Edited by Vlad

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Well, each to their own. I was happy with my Mk XII. It fite right in with the other 26 Spitfires on my shelf.

 

regards Toby

Oops, fits right in, I meant to say

 

regards Toby

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, The Wooksta! said:

 

Beard, I'd ditch that Model News mk XII as it's nigh on unbuildable - I know at least  two guys who've binned it.  Mine went ages ago.

Thanks, I'll bear that in but it's not really doing any harm in the stash.

 

Edit: I've just braved the loft and found that I don't have a Model News Spitfire. Now for a beer to celebrate and cool down.

Edited by Beard

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44 minutes ago, The Wooksta! said:

Jays rereleased one of the Venture XVs - I don't have one as the former are easy to find at a relatively cheap price.

 

It's not the basis I'd recommend, although Ventura's Spitfires were very accurate in outline, largely due to the very limited rub nature of the moulds and the lack of detail parts.

 

But were they ?

I have myself always been convinced that Ventura's Spits were the best accuracywise, but then when more and more modellers here started measuring kits armed with Monforton measurements things seemed to be quite different. I have not measured the Seafire XV yet (have both this and the XVII in the stash, I can do it) but I've compared both the IX and the the Seafire 47 to some recent kits... and either Eduard (Mk.ix) and Airfix (Mk.22) have done things very wrong, or the Ventura offerings are not as accurate as we all believed since there are quite noticeable differences between the Ventura and the more recent kits

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1 hour ago, Vlad said:

The main reason I can see why this mark is seldom touched by model manufacturers is that there's essentially zero scope for re-boxing with different markings or using the molds to make a related version. It's so unique they'd be tooling for the XII and XII alone and releasing a single box and that's it. That's probably very expensive relative to say... tooling a V or a IX that, if you're clever with optional parts, you can then reissue dozens of times with different decals and sub-versions.

You're partially right, but given that they already have a Vc out, all they need do is one sprue for the fuselage and other bits (two fuselage halves, 2 tailwheel doors, tailwheel, spinner, prop, backplate, 2 exhausts, rudder, intake, tailplanes), about a dozen parts.  Not a lot to do.

 

And if they can do a sprue to go with their MB5 to do a COMPLETELY FICTIONAL version for a niche market* yet ignore a gap in the Spitfire market, then I'd say their priorities are definitely wrong.

 

 

 

*I'm probably one of the most committed die hard what if modellers on this board and that release really incensed me.

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There are a lot of entirely fictional AZ releases, some more sensible than others.  It's a way of eaking out sales of niche subjects, making them more affordable even for the purists.  The MB5N is hardly the worst offender, from a purist point of view, given the fascination with the original and "what could they have done with it?  Precious little, in my point of view, but I'm in a minority.  Suez stripes on a Seafang?  Now that really is just downright silly, when they could have done a Korean War one

 

Not much?  Just an entire new fuselage sprue?  Your about a dozen adds up to at least 16, assuming only one of the two versions. plus new transfers and instructions.  Not looking at ways of getting the undercuts on the cowling blisters.  It's a new kit, with (as said above) very limited potential.  Sort run producer - Yes.  Mainstream - Not really credible.  Not nowadays.  

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7 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

There are a lot of entirely fictional AZ releases, some more sensible than others.  It's a way of eaking out sales of niche subjects, making them more affordable even for the purists.

But also a way of making use of 90%+ existing sprues. Making a new prop and some gun pods to sell Bf 109K-6s and K-14s with complete "whiff" markings makes financial sense when it's building on solid existing main sprues.

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2 hours ago, The Wooksta! said:

And if they can do a sprue to go with their MB5 to do a COMPLETELY FICTIONAL version for a niche market*

That annoyed me too, mainky because it's a fictional version with no logic or plausibility whatsoever

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3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

It's a new kit, with (as said above) very limited potential.  Sort run producer - Yes.  Mainstream - Not really credible.  Not nowadays.  

Stick a 1/72 V-1 with it.  More potential.

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