Pin wash...please help

[Nathanrobert86]

Apologies if these are silly questions.

 

First, I read that gloss coat should be applied before applying wash to facilitate capillary action around panel lines ect. Is this true? Or can I use matte clear coat instead?

I tried this on some tank tools for practise. The wash looks ok, but the gloss coat doesn't. Can I get rid of the gloss by painting matte over it?

 

Second, I live in a small apartment and don't have powerful ventilation. Consequently, I don't want to use enamel paints die to fumes. I bought some vallejo acrylic wash. However, I have heard various modellers say that they won't use acrylic wash.

 

Can you get half decent results with an acrylic wash?

 

Nathan.

[Troy Smith]

20 minutes ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

Can I get rid of the gloss by painting matte over it?

yes, in fact standard practice, gloss coat for decals, seal with gloss,  final coat to desired finish.

 

21 minutes ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

Second, I live in a small apartment and don't have powerful ventilation. Consequently, I don't want to use enamel paints die to fumes.

you are using tiny amounts for a wash, not like you are airbrush paint with a load of solvents.

the fumes will be minimal, just open the window.  You could just try it, the worst is your apartment might smell for a day.

26 minutes ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

First, I read that gloss coat should be applied before applying wash to facilitate capillary action around panel lines ect. Is this true? Or can I use matte clear coat instead?

matt coat is at a microscopic level 'rough' so it won't flow the same way.

24 minutes ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

Can you get half decent results with an acrylic wash?

yes, but it will behave differently I suspect than an oil based wash, but I assume a water based wash has some kind of added surfactant to break the surface tension.

BUT an acrylic wash over acrylic gloss may not work so well.  You might find a vallejo wash over Tamiya gloss will be OK, as they are not the same type of acrylics. 

 

27 minutes ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

However, I have heard various modellers say that they won't use acrylic wash.

However I have heard modellers say all sorts of completely contradictory things...  a browse here will reveal modellers who find acrylic useless, and other who can't brush acrylic, and others who get along with them fine and produce great models brushed in acrylic.

 

I read loads of stuff that modeller do,  in the end I added a comment in my sig about this. 

  

My limited output I brush with acrylics, gloss coat, decals, gloss seal, wash with artist oils diluted with zippo type lighter fuel, matt coat, add oil streaks with neat oils streaked with lighter fuel,  and exhaust with ground chalk pastels.

Note,  apart from the paints, none of the items above listed as modeller specific products.

 

Just test it out techniques one something not important first, find what works for you.

 

[Nathanrobert86]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

yes, in fact standard practice, gloss coat for decals, seal with gloss,  final coat to desired finish.

 

you are using tiny amounts for a wash, not like you are airbrush paint with a load of solvents.

the fumes will be minimal, just open the window.  You could just try it, the worst is your apartment might smell for a day.

matt coat is at a microscopic level 'rough' so it won't flow the same way.

yes, but it will behave differently I suspect than an oil based wash, but I assume a water based wash has some kind of added surfactant to break the surface tension.

BUT an acrylic wash over acrylic gloss may not work so well.  You might find a vallejo wash over Tamiya gloss will be OK, as they are not the same type of acrylics. 

 

However I have heard modellers say all sorts of completely contradictory things...  a browse here will reveal modellers who find acrylic useless, and other who can't brush acrylic, and others who get along with them fine and produce great models brushed in acrylic.

 

I read loads of stuff that modeller do,  in the end I added a comment in my sig about this. 

  

My limited output I brush with acrylics, gloss coat, decals, gloss seal, wash with artist oils diluted with zippo type lighter fuel, matt coat, add oil streaks with neat oils streaked with lighter fuel,  and exhaust with ground chalk pastels.

Note,  apart from the paints, none of the items above listed as modeller specific products.

 

Just test it out techniques one something not important first, find what works for you.

 

Troy, I really appreciate the reply.

 

I have some lighter fluid and some black oil paint. Maybe I will try that. Will open the window and use a fan.

 

What ratio of fluid to paint do you use?

[Troy Smith]

14 hours ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

I have some lighter fluid and some black oil paint. Maybe I will try that. Will open the window and use a fan.

As I say, you are going to be using tiny amount,  a few ml.

Black is usually too stark.  

I don't know if you just have black, or a set.

this is  'dirty grey' that is a mix of black, burnt umber and white, after being scrubbed off, before a matt coat

50620608 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

outside, matt coated, with light grey pastel chalk over the fabric bits and a mix foe the exhaust.  The wash enhance the panel lines, but doesn't make it look like a diecast, which is often the result of neat black.

50620684 by losethekibble, on Flickr

this shows use of a neat burnt umber with a little black for oil stains, then streaked and adjusted with neat lighter fuel, over the matt coat.  Gives a slight oily sheen,  

The dirty grey mix is perhaps too dark here, it's the same mix as the topside.

 

for this I used paynes grey (a dark purple blue grey) 

50620032 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

If you click the photos they should enlarge.  Most of the Paynes grey washed off, 

 

this shows use of a neat burnt umber with a little black for oil stains, then streaked and adjusted with neat lighter fuel

50620038 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Nathanrobert86 said:

 

What ratio of fluid to paint do you use?

varies, usually a lot, little dab of oil in a pallete, or container,  add lighter fuel so it flows well.  just experiment,  I wash it on, then clean the brush, and wash it off using a little amount neat lighter fuel.  It's very easy and forgiving.

If you add too much, wait a mo, as it evaporates off really fast, or just make some more, you are looking at using tiny amounts.  

 

Honestly, don't over think it, just experiment.  I like it as a technique, you may hate it.    

 

all the things I have completed have used oils thinned with lighter fuel,   linked here, which may explain or illustrate this further.

WIP 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235052380-hurricane-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing-mki-oob/

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235071371-airfix-cromwell-been-a-long-time-since-i-did-a-tank/

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072084-132-airfix-paratrooper-officer

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235073488-spitfire-pr-xix-airfix-72nd-as-i-thought-it-would-be-easy/

 

If you are interested in using acrylic washes,  I recommend looking at the work of @PlaStix, as that is what he uses.

Games workshop also make washes for figure shading, and I've seen inks used.

 

You just need to try them out and see.   I also really recommend doing a 'work in progress',  great for feedback, encouragement and hints and tips, Britmodellr has a really good ethos on this,  and it's really good to see your work put into a common context, which gives a new perspective on it.

 

HTH

[Shin]

Troy dropped some good knowledge on you, please try and read all of that. Personally I use oil paints thinned with odorless mineral spirits - shouldn't be much different with lighter fluid. To determine when it's thin enough for a pin wash, I dab a brush in then poke it to the side wall of the palette well I'm mixing in. If it stays there as a bead, it's still too thick. If it runs down the side of the palette smoothly, it's ready. Hope that helps with your experimentation!

[nheather]

My understanding is that an additional reason for using gloss rather than matt is that it is you can wipe off excess and mistakes without leaving stains.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel