C-47 G-AMPO Colour Query

[fightersweep]

Hi all!

 

I wasn't actually sure which forum to put this in: a 1944 airframe in a 1983 colour scheme. I'm about to embark on building G-AMPO as she appeared in these colours;

 

 

The 26 Decals colour call out says light aircraft grey for the wings, but a few photos I've looked at, I can't decide if they are actually silver. I'm sure 26's callout is correct, but wondered if anyone knew for sure. I'll be doing G-GAMSV as well from the same period, so I guess the question applies there also.

 

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[Lazy8]

I photographed AMPO at Stanstead in May 1983 when the Space Shuttle came to visit.  Not the best picture I've ever taken, but to my mind it shows white engine nacelles with light grey outer wings, bare metal inner wings, and silver-doped control surfaces.

 

I flew in AMSV in 1986.  The wings and tailplane were white, with silver doped control surfaces.

As you can see, AMRA at that time had yet another variation...

[Army_Air_Force]

@fightersweep I had a bit of a look around in G-AMPO when impounded at Newcastle. At that point in time ( 1988/89 ), the inner wings appear to be white like the fuselage. Not the greatest picture, but the inner and outer wings look the same shade as the fuselage. By this time the airframe was looking very tatty, but nice weathering opportunities if you went down that route.

 

 

 

[janneman36]

I am with white on that scheme for every part of the wing..

Hope this helps...

Douglas DC-3  G-AMPO Newcastle Airport by emdjt42, on Flickr

 

cheers, Jan

 

[Army_Air_Force]

Interesting to see one freshly covered aileron and the other in white. This picture must be just before AMPO left Newcastle, as for most of the time there, it was impounded next to our hangar. Towards the end of its stay, it was moved to the East loop to clear apron space for the RAF to operate there during an exercise. From there, Aces High cleared the debt and we gave it a brief look over before it moved to the terminal apron prior to leaving Newcastle. Two of my pictures show it taxiing up the main runway and at the terminal apron. The other two show it outside our hangar. We gave it occasional engine runs while impounded.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Army_Air_Force

[fightersweep]

Thanks Gents! Quite a mixed bag then. I'm looking at portraying G-AMPO in Sept 83. I think she got that scheme around June 83, so for the timeframe I want, she would have been still fresh and new looking. The 26 Decals call for LAG wings, but looking at the photos so kindly posted, I'm thinking white with silver engine cowlings is the way to go. The walkways are another detail point duly noted.

 

Thanks for all the info. Greatly appreciated!

 

Steve

[Coors54]

I had 'PO on charge much later when at Coventry with Air Atlantique, she'd been gutted along with 'SV after conversion to a pollution spray airframes, then laid up for parts cannibalisation. The inner wings were silver paint, the outer wings had been removed and were stacked in Hangar 7 and they were a light grey with large black "SV" and "PO" on the upper surface for identity at low level over the sea by the accompanying direction aircraft.

The airframes were being sold off and 'PO went to 47 Air Despatch, I helped move her first at Lyneham and then Brize Norton, I go and see her from time to time.

All not much help for your time period but a memory jogger for me!

 

Dave

Edited June 22, 2020 by Coors54
grammar

[iainpeden]

I had my first ever flight in her at a Waddington airshow ‘78 or ‘79 I think. She was in Air UK markings then. Take off past the Vulcans, over Lincoln Cathedral and back down.

[jyguy]

9 hours ago, iainpeden said:

I had my first ever flight in her at a Waddington airshow ‘78 or ‘79 I think. She was in Air UK markings then.

At that time 'MPO was with East lease T/a Eastern Airways and wearing a Red white and Blue livery.One of the old Esci boxing's included the decals for the colour scheme.

[jyguy]

[jyguy]

On the basis you can never have too much reference material above is a photograph of the aircraft in question taken during the Summer of 1983 when fresh off overhaul and re paint.Interestingly the Two VHF aerials on the roof are not in line and the aft One does not appear to be vertical.

Edited June 23, 2020 by jyguy
typo,Punctuation

[Army_Air_Force]

Here's G-AMPO at the former RAF Usworth in June 1982.

 

[fightersweep]

Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to answer my question and supply so many great photos. Thank you all!

 

@jyguy That nails it for me. I'm looking for the late summer of 83 time frame, and I'm seeing overall white with silver cowlings. Lots of extra useful stuff to be seen too, Fantastic photo! Thanks for sharing.

 

Best regards;

Steve

[jyguy]

Thats a pleasure Steve.The picture was from a series of publicity shots commissioned by Air Atlantique.

 

G-AMSV had silver control surfaces and a slightly different shaped Black anti glare panel in front of the cockpit.The Stick of rock livery was attractive but the White weathered quickly operating in the NW European climate.

 

I look forward to seeing your builds which kit will you be using?

 

 

[fightersweep]

@jyguy

 

Primarily, I'm building G-AMPO and want to do G-APML, but she was in a different scheme in late 83 and I need to try and cobble decals together for ML from somewhere. These are for a themed build I'm doing, which is the first airshow I attended at West Malling in Sept 83. There were three Daks there that day, the other being G-DAKS.

 

As far as Air Atlantique are concerned: I wouldn't mind completing most of the fleet from the 80s as the 26 Decals are available again. I've also got decals for the two Daks from the Airline TV series, and having just re-watched it, that will be a must.

 

Kit wise the stash sits at the following: 1 current Airfix, 2 Italeri and 3 Esci. Any recommendations for the best kit? The Airfix looks great in the box, but I do still have a soft spot for the Esci and Italeri kits.

 

Best regards;

Steve

[jyguy]

Yes I've always fancied building a kit as G-APML.The Aeroplane was ex Martin Baker and had spent its whole Civil life with them based at Chalgrove.Atlantique underwent a rapid expansion in the early eighties acquiring several examples which were put into service carrying their previous operators liveries.Back to 'PML the Atlantique titles were Blue so it may be possible to use the Ones from Either G-AMSV or G-AMHJ's decal sheets.

 

Best kit? I guess that depends on who you talk to but in 1/72 Airfix seem to take the podium.As far as the offerings go I like the Esci kit but here are my personal observations and opinions,.Do bear in mind I am not an engineer or rivet counter or very frequent modeller these days.This is the place to ask as the membership here represent a huge knowledge base.

 

i) "New tool" Airfix Dakota 

Held by many to be the best yet.The kit has deep panel lines and some strange representation of the panels around the forward fuselage whilst lacking detail such as the escape hatch over the cockpit and the battery compartment hatch covers.Also lacking in detail are the engines.Oh and the aileron trim tab has been missed.

The cabin windows install from the outside love it or hate it.You will have to add windows depending on the airframe being built.

The tyres have a weight on wheels look which has been overdone.

 

The Flight deck side windows are best installed from inside prior to mating the fuselage halves.I found the tolerances very tight and some adjustment is needed to get the  centre section and wings fitted.

The Separate rudder may make applying decals for some civilian schemes tricky.

 

The Carb intakes and exhausts will need opening out carefully.

 

Once built it does look like a Dakota and captures the aircrafts character well.

 

ii) Esci

 

Not a bad kit for its day.Some say its slightly under Scale.

I would replace the kit exhausts with aftermarket examples.

 

iii) Italeri

 

Let down by poorly shaped engine cowlings.Again I would use aftermarket exhausts.

 

This kit has the least detailed interior of those mentioned here most of which is invisible unless the kit is built with open doors and cockpit windows.

[jyguy]

[jyguy]

G-APML trundling off on a pleasure flight.

 

The wording in the inverted triangle on the tail was "Air Atlantique" it had been "Martin Baker Engineering".The small symbol above it is a teddy bear which was to do with the B17 Sally B supporters club.

Edited June 25, 2020 by jyguy

[Army_Air_Force]

3 hours ago, fightersweep said:

......These are for a themed build I'm doing, which is the first airshow I attended at West Malling in Sept 83.......

That's a great idea for a theme. I think my first show was at Sunderland airport in 1973. I still have the "Airday 73" booklet listing participants. They included the BBMF Lancaster, which I think was in its first season with the flight. A Blackburn Beverley, Rothmans Pitts Specials, "The Blades" Jet Provost team from RAF Linton-on-Ouse, a Cosmic Wind, Beaver, Vulcan, Hurricane, Vintage Pair ( Meteor & Vampire ), and Hawker Hunter F6 amongst other displays. I think I'd need quite a big shelf or wall space to display them all!

 

I think this Hurricane picture was from that show, sporting an unusual four blade prop at the time.

 

I think this Andover was at the same show. I always wanted a Hercules in that sand and brown scheme!

 

[fightersweep]

@Army_Air_Force

 

It's an itch I've had for years, as the show was such an inspiration. I was already an absolute WW2 aviation nut as a 13 year old in 1983, but to be on this wartime airfield with all the wartime vehicles and aircraft displaying was total overload. Technically, my first show was Shuttleworth in 1980, but it was back in the days when the airfield had the huge members enclosure (along with their cars). I remember being able to see very little of the show. No such problem at West Malling. Such a great show despite the awful weather. The Sunderland show sounded good too. A spread of aircraft of which many we won't see again. Unusual to see PZ865 with a four blade prop.

 

I'll post up my progress in the RFI soon (have done one update so far) as I have a few more to add to the collection. I think it's going to fill up a few shelves once done. I've almost got every type I need (your resin Broussard was a God send), and I'm only missing two aircraft to complete the line up: a Fiat G.46 and a Howard 500.

 

Best regards;

Steve

[fightersweep]

@jyguy

 

Thanks ever so much for the background info and your thoughts on the available kits. As they're in the stash, I'll no doubt be using them all, but like you, I think I lean towards the Esci kit. However, I will be taking your advice on the aftermarket exhausts.

 

Nice photo of G-APML too, and if I'm not mistaken, the photo was taken at West Malling in 1983....so the show I'm modelling! I think I could cobble together most of the decals for that aircraft and I have an abundant supply of the Sally B teddies. 

 

Steve

[Paul Bradley]

As an aside, Steve, I'm currently building the Airfix kit with the seats from the ESCI kit in Air Atlantique markings as G-AMSV, as well as an Italeri kit in post-war Swissair markings, as part of a group build over at UAMF. My choice stems form my first and on;y DC-3 flight in G-AMSV at HMS Daedalus Open Day back in 1985:

 

daedalus85-02 by paulbradley109, on Flickr

 

daedalus85-01 by paulbradley109, on Flickr

 

As you can see, white wings. Unfortunately, I didn't take any interior shots so I've had to use some educated guesswork on the interior, but this is what I came up with:

 

IMG-0165 by paulbradley109, on Flickr

 

 

IMG-0170 by paulbradley109, on Flickr

 

I'll be using this set of 26 Decals:

 

G-AMSV-50th-Anniversary by paulbradley109, on Flickr

 

I've found that the Airfix kit is finicky on fit and I had nasty seams and steps on the wingroots which needed shimming to correct. By contrast, I've had no such issues with my Italeri kit! 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Paul Bradley

[Army_Air_Force]

My Dak flight was in G-AMPY from RAF Cranfield in 1986. I built the Monogram C-47 in Northwest colours soon after.

 

[janneman36]

1 hour ago, Paul Bradley said:

I've found that the Airfix kit is finicky on fit and I had nasty seams and steps on the wingroots which needed shimming to correct. By contrast, I've had no such issues with my Italeri kit! 

 

Great subject Paul, I flew as well for the first time in a DC3 and that was also AMSV in the later color scheme in 85..

Sorry to hear about the fit problems on the Airfix as my experience is completely the opposite..

I construct the fairings to the fuselage and assemble the wings in one piece before I mate them with the fuselage ..that works for me and I don’t have any large gaps .

Anyway I hope too see AMSV finished, I.

 

cheers, Jan

[PLC1966]

G-AMSV was my Dak fight, Bristol Lulsgate into the Fairford Airshow.

 

Head banging from doing best part of a bottle of Southern Comfort watching Live Aid the day before.