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Making a Hurricane Mk.IIB with Arma Hobby kit question


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Question for those more knowledgeable on the Hurricane.  I have the Arma Hobby Mk.IIC kit, my cat managed to get his chompers into the wing, so instead of wasting the whole thing, I thought I'd make a Mk.IIB using the Arma Hobby Mk.I kit.

 

My question is, is this a simple matter of just swapping out the fuselages and using the 4 spoke wheels?  On a somewhat related note, did all Mk.I Hurricanes (metal wing) use the 5 spoke wheel? or did they later on start using the 4 spoked wheel?  If so, any idea as to roughly when that transition would have happened?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Wm.

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I think you should be ok using the MK2C fuselage with the MK1 wings ( although someone here might know better )

According to the modellers datafile the MK2B had provision to carry 44 or 90 gal fuel tanks or bombs under the wings , as for wheels best to check the aircraft you intend to model from photos although i suspect the 4 spoke wheel was fitted from the MK2 onwards :like:

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It's a bit of an interesting question whether all Mk.IIB had provision for the store carrier underwing, but certainly most did, although not actually carrying it unless on a fighter-bomber unit or ferrying.  Many Mk.IIB fighters overseas had the outer wing guns removed to same weight and improve the handling, presumably doping over the shell ejection chutes.  This would make the Mk.I wing even more appropriate.

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If you had the original plus all the amendments, then it might answer my initial question.  I have a Mk.II manual and it doesn't make this clear.

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13 hours ago, Wm Blecky said:

My question is, is this a simple matter of just swapping out the fuselages and using the 4 spoke wheels? 

you ideally need the front of the IIC wing,  though this can be modified, as the carb intake moved back, but essentially yes.

also, you need the deeper Mk.II radiator, and the Mk.II carb intake, which is wider.

You also need to check what type of tail wheel and exhausts were fitted,  early Mk.II's used the types usually though of as being for the Mk.I.

 

this show the carb intake position and change nose contours

Hurricane-dimensions.jpg

 

there is detail on the MkI vs Mk.II here on page 

 

 

13 hours ago, Wm Blecky said:

 

On a somewhat related note, did all Mk.I Hurricanes (metal wing) use the 5 spoke wheel?

No. 

13 hours ago, Wm Blecky said:

or did they later on start using the 4 spoked wheel?  If so, any idea as to roughly when that transition would have happened?

From photos, the first two Hurricane batches, serials,  L**** and N**** used 5 spoke wheel.  

Everything after that used 4 spoke.

see http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM

I'd not trust the detail notes about props though.

 

The L**** and N**** are tricky, as there are multiple variations,  fabric or metal wing, early L**** have the curved lower windscreen, though this changed somewhere in the L**** run, and they predate introduction of the 2nd fabric hatch in the starboard side, which is rectangular.

also there are the various propellers and spinners fitted, also the switch from pole type to the triangluar radio mast.

The photographic record is not good, as many shots from these airframes were used in France, and had serials painted out, or are photographed as wrecks with the fabric stripped off, so it's hard to pin what had what in a lot of cases.

 

Most published material on Hurricanes is not good on these details,  over the years on here threads have revised and clarified Hurricane details, but it's an ongoing quest.

 

HTH

 

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Thank you Troy, the information you have provided is greatly appreciated. 

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Hi Troy,

 

Thanks again for the excellent information you provided, it will be very helpful.

 

I hope that you do not mind, but I do have a few more questions for you.  You mentioned that it would be ideal to utilize the front part of the Mk.IIC wing, could you elaborate on that please?

 

I have been doing a little test fitting and the Mk.I wing will require a little "adjusting" as there are 2 nibs on either side of where the cockpit floor meets the upper wing.  Simple enough fix.  Other than that and moving back the air intake on the bottom wing, the wing assembly appears to it the Mk.II fuselage like a glove.  Am I missing something?

 

Also, you mention using the Mk.II kit's carb intake.  In the Arma Hobby kit, it is actually a different shape:

spacer.png

 

The Mk.I kit intake is like the one in this picture:

spacer.png

 

Thanking you in advance for your help.

 

Wm.

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8 minutes ago, Wm Blecky said:

You mentioned that it would be ideal to utilize the front part of the Mk.IIC wing, could you elaborate on that please?

 the wing assembly appears to it the Mk.II fuselage like a glove.  Am I missing something?

No, just the part with the carb intake, but you may not need too, and just fill the small gap between wing and fuselage.  No need to make work.

I was doing this as a mental exercise.  I shall have a look at the actual kits, assuming I can find them, tomorrow.

 

9 minutes ago, Wm Blecky said:

In the Arma Hobby kit, it is actually a different shape:

it should be.  It's wider at the front, though check, in the model photo, are you sure that's not the rear of the tropical filter? 

I just went image hunting,  very rare to find a banked over wartime undershot.   

Below used under 'fair use' as it shows a point under discussion, 

 now I don't know quite what PZ865 has, some photos show a trop filter, and I don't know if this just the rear of one, or if this was the standard Mk.II fit...

53114_1532158358.jpg

 

Hmm.  it's now way too late to go photo hunting.   But, then I remembered that the Mk.Iv in Birmingham is hung up.... and was put into a technical school in 1946, and while has been repainted, is the same airframe AFAIK. Never used tropically, UK service only.

 

and this is what I thought the Mk.II carb intake looked like.

33571009524_2dfd1147a6_o.jpgHawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 004 by touluru, on Flickr

 

Hmm... looking at more in the Flickr set...

34253734412_457901f028_o.jpgHawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 001 by touluru, on Flickr

may need to go to the page,  or enlarge,  but look like there is provision for a faring at the rear which is missing, and visible on PZ865 above....

 

I'll stick a @dogsbody in as Chris is good at finding images.   I need sleep now.

 

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42 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I'll stick a @dogsbody in as Chris is good at finding images.   I need sleep now.

 

As it's just after 10pm here, I'll look tomorrow. I must say that I've never really looked at this detail before. More stuff to learn.

 

 

 

Chris

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On 21/06/2020 at 06:47, Wm Blecky said:

I thought I'd make a Mk.IIB

No further on the carb intake,  but this is a very helpful shot for the upper wing outer gun panels on the B wing.

Note the two vents just behind the centre panel.

Hawker-Hurricane-IIb-RAF-3Sqn-showing-th

 

previous discussions turned up the detail that ground crews must have loved, that the guns were slid into the wing from the front with leading edge panel removed.

 

I'll edit in more pics as I find them. 

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Please forgive me momentarily hijacking this thread but my attempts to communicate with Troy through this forum and via e-mail have both failed.

 

Troy, if you read this - 10 years ago, in the Hurricane cockpit interior colours thread, you mentioned a photo of Hurricane RO o P partly dismantled.  Would you be able to direct me into finding this photo please?

I am researching the Hurricanes of 29(F) Sqn and RO were the ident letters assigned to ‘29 after Sep 1939.

Edited by TeeELL
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16 minutes ago, TeeELL said:

you mentioned a photo of Hurricane RO o P partly dismantled.  Would you be able to direct me into finding this photo please?

It's in the PSL Hurricane, Famous Aircraft and how model them.  

this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-Aircraft-Their-History-Model/dp/0850591244

Long OOP.   I'm not sure off hand if the photo has appeared elsewhere. I'll have a look.  I wouldn't pay a lot for the book,  some good bits, some rather dated.

You can email me via IMPS Mid Sussex, and another is on my profile BTW.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

No, just the part with the carb intake, but you may not need too, and just fill the small gap between wing and fuselage.  No need to make work.

I was doing this as a mental exercise.  I shall have a look at the actual kits, assuming I can find them, tomorrow.

 

it should be.  It's wider at the front, though check, in the model photo, are you sure that's not the rear of the tropical filter? 

I just went image hunting,  very rare to find a banked over wartime undershot.   

Below used under 'fair use' as it shows a point under discussion, 

 now I don't know quite what PZ865 has, some photos show a trop filter, and I don't know if this just the rear of one, or if this was the standard Mk.II fit...

53114_1532158358.jpg

 

Hmm.  it's now way too late to go photo hunting.   But, then I remembered that the Mk.Iv in Birmingham is hung up.... and was put into a technical school in 1946, and while has been repainted, is the same airframe AFAIK. Never used tropically, UK service only.

 

and this is what I thought the Mk.II carb intake looked like.

33571009524_2dfd1147a6_o.jpgHawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 004 by touluru, on Flickr

 

Hmm... looking at more in the Flickr set...

34253734412_457901f028_o.jpgHawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 001 by touluru, on Flickr

may need to go to the page,  or enlarge,  but look like there is provision for a faring at the rear which is missing, and visible on PZ865 above....

 

I have to wonder if the pointed portion behind the carburetor air intake is a fairing?  Perhaps designed to increase / better direct air flow into the radiator housing?

 

Edited by Wm Blecky
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I suspect it is to reduce the base drag of the blunt rear, but that would also have the effect of improving the airflow into the radiator because sitting in even a partial lump of turbulent flow would decrease the efficiency.

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