John Aero Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 There was a rudiment-re 144 scale outline drawing in the last edition of the Harleyford Miles Aircraft book which was probably based on the final GA drawing in the Peter Amos third volume. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 Just to qualify my statement above regarding the Aviation News plans, the view below is a Miles structural repair diagram, scaled the same as the AN plans side view (the latter in pink). It shows the AN plans to have the aft fuselage too narrow and the overlong nose section too. Notable, the tail cone on the AN side view is rather pointed with an upswept lower profile whereas photos clearly show the rounded, more symmetrical shape shown in the Miles section. More notably, Contrail's tail section in that area reflects the Miles drawing, as does its nose cone. Another case where the kit is accurate and not the plans it would be judged by 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenSharp Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Oooo another Vac can't have too many of those. Mind if I pull up a stool and commence to kibitzing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I have to say it does not surprise me, they seemed to be of variable quality as to who drew them and Alan Hall reputedly had deliberate errors included in the plans to deter anyone copying them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyJammedKenny! Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Sabrejet: How did you get decent dimensions for the interior components? Did you just cut approximates and trial-fit, or do you use plasticine clay to get a rough estimate of the size/shape? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, TheyJammedKenny! said: Sabrejet: How did you get decent dimensions for the interior components? Did you just cut approximates and trial-fit, or do you use plasticine clay to get a rough estimate of the size/shape? Independently of the answer in this case by Sabrejet, there is this very affordable tool, a contour gauge: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyJammedKenny! Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Aha! Must...have...one. Noted. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 6 hours ago, TheyJammedKenny! said: Sabrejet: How did you get decent dimensions for the interior components? Did you just cut approximates and trial-fit, or do you use plasticine clay to get a rough estimate of the size/shape? Well the flight deck area parts are easy: Contrail kindly supplied templates. However I will be adding a few more and I use a combination of trial fitting if the shape is similar to an adjacent one, or use thick paper to make a template. I measure the height and depth of the fuselage half and then trim bits off til I get a reasonable fit. Then it's easy to transfer the shape onto plastic card and sand the final fit. Usually you could expect to mirror the card template to create the full plastic former, but on this kit there is considerable difference in plastic thickness for LH and RH sides. That's a function of the vacform process but I have to say it's a lot more pronounced than on any vacform kit I've done before. The plastic goes down to maybe 15 thou on one fuselage side, and up to well over 60 thou on the other. Nothing some sanding of interior parts won't solve though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Moa said: Independently of the answer in this case by Sabrejet, there is this very affordable tool, a contour gauge: And if I had one I'd use it! Back when I did my first vacform (Rareplanes of some sort), my local model shop recommended one of these, but at the time (and on a schoolboy's pocket money) it was beyond my means. Nowadays they are cheap as chips so I really have no excuse not getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 I have to say I'm really enjoying this one. Modelling is very much a case of each to his/her own, but this very cheap kit (which I think cost £5 on TheBay) is already giving me miiiles more pleasure than any shake-n-bake Tamigawa effort could. And when it comes to modelling-per-buck, it wins hands down. So anyway. Just for info, here is Miles' schematic, showing what could be done with the cabin configuration: It gives the impression that an airline could seat up to 22 passengers (despite stating 20). However, as soon as you take away two seats because they block the entrance door, and realize that another two would only be suitable for a flight attendant since they are next to the loo, you are down to 18 passengers. Then two of those wouldn't have a window seat. So realistically, at best it was a 16-seater, competing against much cheaper, twin-engined C-47s, which were readily available and carried more in the way of passengers and/or cargo. And despite the advantages of easier loading and a level cabin floor on the ground, that's what really killed the Marathon, as it did the Lockheed Saturn and a number of other contenders: cheap and immediately available will usually beat "expensive with a waiting list". It's quite possible that we will see a similar situation post-Covid, with defunct airline stock looking more attractive than buying new. Who knows? Anyway enough of that. More cockpit parts have been made and assembled, suitably strengthened to avoid any chance of things breaking after they are out of reach. Also it's an attempt to make the whole thing a bit more rigid. And this is the nose gear bay. Not much of it will be seen, but since I'll be scratch-building the landing gear, I want it all to look about right. Miles seems to have painted interiors in silver, so for now that is the plan. I've hacked a rough shape into the lower fuselage for the nose doors/gear well, which will be tidied up when I level off the outer skin and start filling. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Excellent start! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sabrejet said: Then two of those wouldn't have a window seat. So realistically, at best it was a 16-seater, competing against much cheaper, twin-engined C-47s, which were readily available and carried more in the way of passengers and/or cargo. And despite the advantages of easier loading and a level cabin floor on the ground, that's what really killed the Marathon, as it did the Lockheed Saturn and a number of other contenders: cheap and immediately available will usually beat "expensive with a waiting list". It's quite possible that we will see a similar situation post-Covid, with defunct airline stock looking more attractive than buying new. Who knows? There was a fascinating documentary on last week about the development of the DC3/C47 and basically by going to a cylindrical fuselage from the DC2 to the DC3 Boeing could grow the aircraft and get enough seats in to make air travel economically viable and gained a huge advantage over the competition. I used to work in aerospace and the big thing with modern airliners is that everything is measured out in cycles ie start the engines, fly to a destination, land. So an airframe/engine is good for so many cycles before it’s next maintenance, overhaul, replacement etc. Sitting on the ground results in unused cycles that will only be used up once air travel gets going again. I witnessed the impact of the first Gulf war on commercial aircraft and basically lots of planes stayed on the ground. Resulting in a lull in activity for support industries ( I worked on engine case overhaul) until the unused cycles were used up. A lot of support companies struggled and went out of business. Nov COVID is resulting in even less aviation, so the immediate effect will be lots if support industries with no work and in trouble, and probably lots of new purchases deferred for a number of years. Enjoying the build so far. So nice to see a lot more old school modellers breaking out at the moment. Edited June 20, 2020 by Marklo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Marklo said: I used to work in aerospace... I still do! We'll see how things go but fortunately this kind of modelling takes my mind off things. A bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, Sabrejet said: I still do Commiserations, I moved on to microelectronics and then medical devices. Although I’m unemployed at the moment, I reckon once things get back to (whatever is going to be) normal medical/ pharma will be hopping, but aerospace has a few difficult years ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) The late 1940s seemed a great time for new British light civil aircraft designs, very few of which became true successes. There was the Portsmouth Aerocar, Miles Aerovan (plus a string of spin-offs), and the cute little, Dan Dare like Planet Satellite. In the larger market Cunliffe Owen had a go with the low-wing Leonides powered Concordia, while Percival came up with the Gypsy Queen powered high-wing P.48 Merganser that would evolve into the slightly larger Leonides powered P.50/66 Prince/President line. That was a modest success, but not as much as Percival had hoped, and I wonder how well it would have done without military contracts. This in contrast to absolute worldwide sales success of the de Havilland 104 Dove. Similarly you could view the Miles M.60 Marathon as a slightly larger high-wing competitor to the low-wing DH114 Heron, both four engined DH Gypsy Queen powered, again it was the de Havilland design that would pick up good worldwide sales. One does wonder how well the twin Mamba powered Marathon might have done, as it would have been unique in the market. All these aircraft were handsome designs though. I agree with the above, so many surplus DC-3s/Dakotas and Rapides/Dominies must have shrunk any available market, and you have to feel for Miles that were dependent on civil sales. But why some designs succeeded while others failed shows how particular the market must have been. Anyway, superb work going on with the Contrail kit Sabrejet and great to see you're enjoying it. Edited June 20, 2020 by 71chally 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, 71chally said: There was the Portsmouth Aerocar, Miles Aerovan (plus a string of spin-offs), and the cute little, Dan Dare like Planet Satellite. We have a 1/72 kit of the Aerovan (which I built), but how much would I love kit renditions of the other two! And since you mention Cunliffe Owen, would it be too much to ask for an OA-1 ? Went completely off-track, sorry. Carry on with your beautiful and inspiring work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 Well I think the scheme is settled on now: certainly not military and certainly quite esoteric. However I shall not raise my hopes until it's fully sorted. More news when I know for sure. Bit more done today - formers sorted (need to avoid cabin windows). I think I may do a basic cabin but not sure how much will be visible with everything closed-up. Flight deck access cut out: no idea why Miles didn't put a central door in! And then the flight deck glazing area could be marked out and cut. Then a quick rough-and-ready check to see how it all looks. I aim to polish the canopy to get as smooth a finish as I can, so a reasonably detailed flight deck will be the next thing to tackle. Time for a lager and a bit of human interaction 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Gorgeous work! A real pleasure to follow this build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Moa said: Gorgeous work! A real pleasure to follow this build. High praise indeed: much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 This is how the nose gear well looks as it's mounted on the fwd fuselage horizontal former; now glued in place. So on to the flight deck, this shallow coaming works as the instrument panel shroud, which on the real aircraft has only a minimal protrusion above the IP. I aim to attach the cockpit glazing to the main part of it, forward of the instrument panel: Seats then. The civilian aircraft varied a lot from the RAF aircraft, which had a utilitarian seat, akin to the C-130 Flight Engineer's seat. I suspect it was a MIL SPEC or DTD-specified seat on the military versions. The 'civil' seat looked more like an office chair, so here goes.. Small styrene bits will be armrests. The flight deck has a fairly large console between the seats so a fit check was important to see that it all looked OK. Bases on and a coat of medium grey, which I am using for consoles etc, while the instrument panel will be black. Then fully painted and put in place. The civili Marathons (compared to the military) only had lap belts, so I shall add these from an old Reheat set. IP and centre console next. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Exquisite work, dear sir. So nice to see this gorgeous modeling here at BM! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 Thankyou again @Moa - it means a great deal. Fingers crossed I can maintain something approaching your standards! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sabrejet said: Fingers crossed I can maintain something approaching your standards! You are beyond those already, if I ever had them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 I've been whittling a centre console. Started with this lump: And ended up cutting and filing most of it off: Offered up, along with a first stage of the instrument panel: And then painted and detailed a bit. Throttle and prop control knobs need to be painted I note (forgot that). Lap belts added to the seats too. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev67 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 This is going to be good 😃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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