A26B Invader - Italeri 1/72

[AdrianMF]

Looking good so far!

 

Humbrol 66 acrylic is indeed very grey, much more so than the enamel version. 86 is meant to be light olive but it's pretty blue, so 155 was your best bet.  I've been using the Revell acrylic "Nato-Olive" which is also a nice colour, I'd forgotten I have Hu 155!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[hendie]

wow, just managed to get in on page 3.  So many olives but no hummus that I can see.  I'll bet somebody ate all the pita chips too.

 

 

[perdu]

41 minutes ago, hendie said:

wow, just managed to get in on page 3.  So many olives but no hummus that I can see.  I'll bet somebody ate all the pita chips too.

 

 

No

 

We haven't had lunch yet, Ced has been performing his hosting duties badly...

[Spookytooth]

Sorry lads, a big queue at the supermarket.

Got some more nibbles, nuts, crisps , Pringles , pork pies, cheese rolls, and beer.

 

Simon.

[Marklo]

Wow, three pages before I noticed the new thread. Probably because heavy bombers aren’t generally my thing, but  I’ll follow along because I enjoy @CedB ‘S builds. Might learn some new tools too. 
 

which leads to the question, your chisel looks like a modified Swann mitten scalpel blade, is it? 

[giemme]

Careful @Marklo, you're going to end up with a much lighter wallet if you go on like that...

 

I tend to agree with @keefr22 re colors...

 

Ciao

[72modeler]

On 6/16/2020 at 6:34 AM, CedB said:

I'll leave it until it's obvious what it's for.

I'm pretty sure that is where the optical head of the targeting  system periscope for the ventral turret goes.

Mike

[72modeler]

On 6/16/2020 at 2:56 AM, CedB said:

So, usual shots of the part trees. Two of these:

See those props on the sprues? Now see what they really look like in the linked photos of an A-26B  which is on display here where I live at Lackland AB, as well as one of an A-26C. Those 'whiskers' on the upper blades of the Lackland Invader are to dissipate lightning, which we get a lot of in the summer. Note it also has the original horizontally arranged nose guns. Not that many people correct it, and it's not a big deal unless you really, really, like A-26's, but the intakes and lips to the wing-mounted oil coolers are undersized, with the fairing around the intakes being more bulged out from the wing surface on the real  thing than on the kit. If you have an Airfix A-26 kit, they got it much closer to  the the real ones. See the second linked photo for a better view. Also, you are most likely aware that the cockpit in the A-26B/C kits is correct for the B-26K, but not for the other two variants; you already picked up on the B-26K fin vortex generators that need to be removed. The third linked photo is to the only surviving A-26A that has been restored and is airworthy with the Cavannaugh Flight Museum at Addison, TX. Note the bulged fairing around the oil cooler intake I was trying to describe. She is now in her original SEA markings and is one beautiful Invader!

Mike

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Douglas_A-26_Invader_operators#/media/File:DouglasB26c_Invader.jpg

 

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/a-26c_44-35224/images/a-26c_44-35224_4_of_8.jpg

 

http://warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/A-26A-Special-Kay-restoration_left-fusalage.jpg

 

http://warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/A-26A-Special-Kay-restoration_left-fusalage.jpg

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by 72modeler
added link

[The Spadgent]

Lovely work Ced. This looks big! And green at the moment. 🦖

[Cookenbacher]

Off to a great start Ced.

 

The Olive Drab discussion caused me to thumb through a recently acquired copy of Dana Bell's treatise on the subject, review here. It's a very handy reference, and it leads me to believe that you've painted the bombs the exact right colour, or at least prevents me form being able to prove that you haven't!

 

 

[Harley John]

Caught up.

[Marklo]

2 hours ago, giemme said:

 

Careful @Marklo, you're going to end up with a much lighter wallet if you go on like that

 

Too late  although I’m on a spending ban atm owing to the fact that SWMBO thinks we’re poor now that I’ve been made redundant and am on social welfare ( frankly with COVID 19, who isn’t. Approx 600,000 people in Ireland Btw) So I’ve only been tipping along with essential purchases, although I did buy two 1/144 scale jets this week to mark the reopening of the local hobby shops, the first kits I’ve bought since February.

[CedB]

On 18/06/2020 at 08:53, Biggles87 said:

I’ve  just checked and the olive drab pots are  Compucolour. I do still have a few pots of Gloy though.

 

John

Is it still useable do you think? You know what'll happen; you'll need it for a build and it'll be gloop…  

 

On 18/06/2020 at 10:55, chrislowe said:

I'm going to tag along for this one. You're off and running already, looks like a good start!

Thanks Chris and welcome  

 

On 18/06/2020 at 11:08, perdu said:

Absolutely no help at all but when my unit was picked up by a pair of US Army Chinooks they were both Olive.

BUT both Olives were different shades of brown with hints of green on one and hints of gray on the other

 

Just a waste of space aren't I, sorry!

Always welcome and helpful Bill - stay tuned and DO chip in whenever  

 

23 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

No you're not Bill - that's the thing with colours - they're very rarely consistent. My favourite memory, which I've no doubt mentioned before, was wandering around the 64 Squadron dispersal at Coningsby whilst on IOT, and of the 15 or so Phantoms there, some in grey/green and others in the new A.D. greys scheme, no two parked next to each other were the same colourwise - even the 'newly' painted grey jets. So personally I ignore any statements that are pedantic about colours on in service equipment!

 

Bombs look fine Ced - maybe not rusty enough...!! 🤣

Thanks Keith - I shall refer to your post next time someone complains about my colours!  

 

22 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Looking good so far!

 

Humbrol 66 acrylic is indeed very grey, much more so than the enamel version. 86 is meant to be light olive but it's pretty blue, so 155 was your best bet.  I've been using the Revell acrylic "Nato-Olive" which is also a nice colour, I'd forgotten I have Hu 155!

 

Regards,

Adrian

Thanks Adrian  155 is one of the better Humbrols as far as consistency goes IMHO - nice.

 

21 hours ago, hendie said:

wow, just managed to get in on page 3.  So many olives but no hummus that I can see.  I'll bet somebody ate all the pita chips too.

 

 

Welcome hendie  Pita Chips? Are they a pain in the…

 

21 hours ago, perdu said:

No

 

We haven't had lunch yet, Ced has been performing his hosting duties badly...

Sorry Bill, the servants are furloughed  

 

19 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Sorry lads, a big queue at the supermarket.

Got some more nibbles, nuts, crisps , Pringles , pork pies, cheese rolls, and beer.

 

Simon.

Thanks Simon - bagsie a pork pie  

 

18 hours ago, Marklo said:

Wow, three pages before I noticed the new thread. Probably because heavy bombers aren’t generally my thing, but  I’ll follow along because I enjoy @CedB ‘S builds. Might learn some new tools too. 
 

which leads to the question, your chisel looks like a modified Swann mitten scalpel blade, is it? 

Thanks Mark and welcome!  

My chisel? Do you mean this Swann Morton #9 blade?:

 

 

Not as cheap as the boxes of 100 but really good for chopping things off blade surfaces. I dread to think what it's used for surgically…

 

17 hours ago, giemme said:

Careful @Marklo, you're going to end up with a much lighter wallet if you go on like that...

 

I tend to agree with @keefr22 re colors...

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio  

 

16 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I'm pretty sure that is where the optical head of the targeting  system periscope for the ventral turret goes.

Mike

Thanks Mike  

I've had a look at the instructions and I think, on this variant, the periscope comes up through the clear part and this is a DF loop.

 

15 hours ago, 72modeler said:

See those props on the sprues? Now see what they really look like in the linked photos of an A-26B  which is on display here where I live at Lackland AB, as well as one of an A-26C. Those 'whiskers' on the upper blades of the Lackland Invader are to dissipate lightning, which we get a lot of in the summer. Note it also has the original horizontally arranged nose guns. Not that many people correct it, and it's not a big deal unless you really, really, like A-26's, but the intakes and lips to the wing-mounted oil coolers are undersized, with the fairing around the intakes being more bulged out from the wing surface on the real  thing than on the kit. If you have an Airfix A-26 kit, they got it much closer to  the the real ones. See the second linked photo for a better view. Also, you are most likely aware that the cockpit in the A-26B/C kits is correct for the B-26K, but not for the other two variants; you already picked up on the B-26K fin vortex generators that need to be removed. The third linked photo is to the only surviving A-26A that has been restored and is airworthy with the Cavannaugh Flight Museum at Addison, TX. Note the bulged fairing around the oil cooler intake I was trying to describe. She is now in her original SEA markings and is one beautiful Invader!

Mike

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Douglas_A-26_Invader_operators#/media/File:DouglasB26c_Invader.jpg

 

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/a-26c_44-35224/images/a-26c_44-35224_4_of_8.jpg

 

http://warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/A-26A-Special-Kay-restoration_left-fusalage.jpg

 

http://warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/A-26A-Special-Kay-restoration_left-fusalage.jpg

 

Thanks Mike - I'll have another look later and decide if I can be bothered to do the mods. After the Proctor I'm hoping for an easy build  

 

15 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Lovely work Ced. This looks big! And green at the moment. 🦖

Thanks Johnny  Not as big as the Cat but a nice size.

 

14 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

Off to a great start Ced.

 

The Olive Drab discussion caused me to thumb through a recently acquired copy of Dana Bell's treatise on the subject, review here. It's a very handy reference, and it leads me to believe that you've painted the bombs the exact right colour, or at least prevents me form being able to prove that you haven't!

 

Thanks Cookie - good to know!  

Thanks for the link - interesting.

 

14 hours ago, Harley John said:

Caught up.

Thanks John  

 

14 hours ago, Marklo said:

Too late  although I’m on a spending ban atm owing to the fact that SWMBO thinks we’re poor now that I’ve been made redundant and am on social welfare ( frankly with COVID 19, who isn’t. Approx 600,000 people in Ireland Btw) So I’ve only been tipping along with essential purchases, although I did buy two 1/144 scale jets this week to mark the reopening of the local hobby shops, the first kits I’ve bought since February.

Has to be done Mark - a man has to have his pastimes!  

[CedB]

Bit of progress.

 

Bombs in:

 

 

…and some general messing on the internals:

 

 

I may not do many close up shots this time, but the i/p has had some dots and a coat of DullCote:

 

 

Yes, the ink ran, hence other bits done with watercolour pencils.

 

I'm dithering about the crew as I don't have a prone bomb aimer in this lot:

 

 

I'll choose some candidates and have a ponder.

[janneman36]

On 6/17/2020 at 5:36 AM, philp said:

The Revell build looks pretty accurate.  Is a good kit.

 

Lady Liberty is a B-26K redone as a B.  How can I tell?  Two control sticks.  The original version only had 1 stick and pilot seat.  When they redid the bomber for use in 'Nam they put in a co-pilot spot with associated stick, instruments and seat.

Sorry to disagree on Lady Liberty as it never has been a A26A (this can be checked through the serial)this second control colum is also reinstalled on several civil aircraft as well.

I do have a production list of all counter invaders and what happened to them .

quote “N9682C, which is the current oldest Invader (built August 18, 1944) was declared surplus in 1958 and became a air tanker, then resold and immediately seized by the DEA for trafficing.”

This info is from the site I linked here and contains one of the most complete Invader information on the web. http://napoleon130.tripod.com/id739.html

On 6/16/2020 at 1:34 PM, CedB said:

This is only on one side (weird):

 

 

 

 

 

Those vortex generators that you chiseled off Ced  are for the A-26  Counter Invader version that Italeri did..

These were installed in real life too provide a better handling for the enlarged rudder it had in case of an engine failure ...

By the way Ced I just came across your thread, great build so far 👍

 

cheers, Jan

[Marklo]

1 hour ago, CedB said:

I'm dithering about the crew as I don't have a prone bomb aimer in this lot:

Maybe it’s time to use that Swann Morton as it’s intended

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, CedB said:

I think, on this variant, the periscope comes up through the clear part and this is a DF loop.

The sighting periscope has a head that projects above and below the fuselage; see the link to a more detailed description. The ADF football, on A-26's, IIRC, is located on top of the fuselage aft of the gunner's compartment. As you can see from the linked photos, some had the loop type ADF and some had the 'football' style ADF. The A-26 coded K-3 was based at Sumter AAF in South Carolina, which was an advanced A-26 training field in WW2 and later for the SC ANG.

Mike

 

http://napoleon130.tripod.com/id869.html

 

http://www.aviation-history.com/douglas/a26.html

[CedB]

3 hours ago, janneman36 said:

Sorry to disagree on Lady Liberty as it never has been a A26A (this can be checked through the serial)this second control colum is also reinstalled on several civil aircraft as well.

I do have a production list of all counter invaders and what happened to them .

quote “N9682C, which is the current oldest Invader (built August 18, 1944) was declared surplus in 1958 and became a air tanker, then resold and immediately seized by the DEA for trafficing.”

This info is from the site I linked here and contains one of the most complete Invader information on the web. http://napoleon130.tripod.com/id739.html

Those vortex generators that you chiseled off Ced  are for the A-26  Counter Invader version that Italeri did..

These were installed in real life too provide a better handling for the enlarged rudder it had in case of an engine failure ...

By the way Ced I just came across your thread, great build so far 👍

 

cheers, Jan

Thanks Jan, great information  

 

2 hours ago, Marklo said:

Maybe it’s time to use that Swann Morton as it’s intended

 Tempting Mark, but I think I'll let him play 'navigator' and keep his bits intact.

 

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

The sighting periscope has a head that projects above and below the fuselage; see the link to a more detailed description. The ADF football, on A-26's, IIRC, is located on top of the fuselage aft of the gunner's compartment. As you can see from the linked photos, some had the loop type ADF and some had the 'football' style ADF. The A-26 coded K-3 was based at Sumter AAF in South Carolina, which was an advanced A-26 training field in WW2 and later for the SC ANG.

Mike

 

http://napoleon130.tripod.com/id869.html

 

http://www.aviation-history.com/douglas/a26.html

Thanks Mike, more great information  

The picture of E3 in that second link shows things very well.

I've sanded the top of the periscope and 'simulated the glass' but I may need to do the same on the bottom.

 

 

Two crew selected and painting started. I've used the Hu66 just to see what it looks like:

 

 

None of my chaps will fit in the gunners seat so he's going to be absent - perhaps invisible anyway.

 

I've also had a poke at the Norden bombsight which is nicely presented in the kit:

 

 

Getting there.

[72modeler]

@CedB,

 

Your A-26 is looking good! I wouldn't sweat correcting the oil cooler intake, as it's only  slightly undersized, and to correct the intake as well as the fairing that surrounds it and get two equal mirror images would be a pain in the bottom; it's a subtle error, which to my knowledge, has not been mentioned in any kit reviews or build articles I have read, but you know how that goes! If I didn't have an Airfix kit and two of the old Monogram almost 1/72 kits to use for their intakes, I wouldn't mess with correcting them, either! That being said, many years ago when they were cheap and readily available I bought four each of the Monogram boxscale A-26B and B-25H for their props, which are very good HS units that can be used on A-26, B-25, TBF, and F4U-1 models, especially as the hubs and bolt detailing is so much better.

 

This is a link to what the 1/67 Monogram kit looked like as well as a build article of how one modeler updated it. Might make for interesting reading. I recall the kit being used to make the Airfix kit more accurate, as IIRC there was an issue with the length of the rear fuselage as well as poorly shaped props.

 

https://modelingmadness.com/review/korean/jacksonb26.htm

 

Mike

 

 

[CedB]

Thanks again Mike  

I'm growing fonder of this type and I'm sure others will benefit from your input - feel free to post more great information!

 

Pretty close to closing up now:

 

 

I'll be building wheels up as usual so I thought about fitting the front wheel bays.

Unusually these are a single part with the doors attached on nice extended hinges. The instructions would have you glue these to the bottom of the cockpit floor before insertion but I'd originally planned to leave them out. Even though they won't be seen I thought they'd provide some support for the doors.

However:

 

 

…the bay walls interfere with the locating pin for the fuselage, shown with the arrow above, so I left them out.

 

Dry fit at the front went well though with a bit of wiggling:

 

 

The mid-section was a bit of a problem though - the bomb fuse fouled on the bulkhead on one side:

 

 

…even though, I think, the racks are in their locating lugs:

 

 

Good enough for the ceiling, although future modellers should check the bulkhead fit - I think mine's a bit too far back - and the bombs (although they're on pretty firm locating holes).

Thinking back I may have got the racks mixed up? 

Or the bombs?

Remember they're individually numbered but they looked the same.

Ho hum.

 

Mike pointed out back here that the turret control / sighting periscope pokes out below the fuselage so I checked that fit:

 

 

Hmmm.

That's one of the holes that needs to be cut out back at step 1 and there's obviously some excess plastic in my moulding. Soon sorted with a drill bit:

 

 

 

Don't forget the window!

It's attached to the gate over the ridge so this needs some careful cleaning up:

 

 

Bulkheads fitted to one side:

 

 

To be honest the fit seems a bit vague but they went in OK.

 

Crew now. Navigator settled:

 

 

…but, as you can see, the pilot's not quite comfortable:

 

 

His feet foul on the rudder pedals.

You know what's coming don't you? Minor surgery:

 

 

Everything seems to fit now so ready to glue the seams:

 

[Hamden]

 

Nice progress Ced. Starting to look like an Invader now

 

  Stay safe            Roger 

[CedB]

Thanks Roger - I hope you're staying safe too  

 

 

Close up.

The turret fits reasonably well but will need some blending to the sides of the fuselage:

 

 

I would blame the internal fit if the fuselage hadn't gone together so nicely.

 

The nose has had its cannons fitted:

 

 

…and now it won't go on. Rats.

 

If you look at the fit you can see that that lovely bombsight is fouling on the back of the guns:

 

 

 

As it won't be seen inside the closed nose (??!!) I decided to take it off and keep it for a more deserving model.

Still the nose doesn't fit well:

 

 

Grrrr.

My small patience tank is empty now so I'll leave it and have some lunch.

[giemme]

Lovely interiors, Ced - looking suitably busy  Italeri typical fit, I see... (my next one is going to be an Italeri too ...  )

 

Ciao

[AdrianMF]

Looking good - I hope the filler is easily accessible in your new desk tidy!

 

I can’t imagine that underside turrets sighted by periscopes were ever very effective. I’m always alarmed when I drive US cars at how easy it is to lose a whacking great SUV between the outer edge of a badly designed mirror and peripheral vision.

 

Maybe the Invader too had a warning sticker on the mirror? “Caution - attacking aircraft may be closer than they appear”
 

Regards,

Adrian

[CedB]

1 hour ago, giemme said:

Lovely interiors, Ced - looking suitably busy  Italeri typical fit, I see... (my next one is going to be an Italeri too ...  )

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio - yes, typical I'm afraid, and I fear that this kit may suffer from the attempt to have too many variants  

I've no idea why there's all that detail in the nose when it can't be seen?

I have a solution though (See below)

 

1 hour ago, AdrianMF said:

Looking good - I hope the filler is easily accessible in your new desk tidy!

 

I can’t imagine that underside turrets sighted by periscopes were ever very effective. I’m always alarmed when I drive US cars at how easy it is to lose a whacking great SUV between the outer edge of a badly designed mirror and peripheral vision.

 

Maybe the Invader too had a warning sticker on the mirror? “Caution - attacking aircraft may be closer than they appear”
 

Regards,

Adrian

Thanks Adrian

Filler is still in the old workstation and easily to hand… but hopefully I won't need too much.

 

 

Remember that location pin that fouled the wheel bay? I think that may be part of the problem as it was pushing the underside of the fuselage out too wide for the nose.

I sawed into it with a nano-saw:

 

 

With that done the shape was OK but it was still springing caused by the front floor and those gun mountings.

I have a solution:

 

 

No, not the tape, that's just there to hold the nose while the weld sets. Honest.

I chopped a bit more off the floor.

 

Oooh, clear parts…

2mm hole drilled in this bit:

 

 

It nearly fits:

 

 

I'm beginning to think I've done something wrong…

For example, this bulkhead is against the location lugs:

 

 

…but now the gun control column thingy is jammed against it and won't rotate:

 

 

…and there's a misfit on the fin:

 

 

…but only part of the front.

Ho hum.

 

Clear parts (which are very nice, if a bit thick) now glued on with Formula 560:

 

 

I'll let that dry before I get the filler out.