AMT-4 Humbrol approximate?

[Antti_K]

Hello again,

 

I just compared wheel hubs painted with Humbrol 150 (with a top coat of Hu 135) against the NCS colour chip and it is an excellent match for NCS 6030-G70Y that was found on the MiG as well. The remains I studied are painted with a single "bright" green, but the paint shows both lighter and darker shades on various spots. My previous post shows the darker shade.

 

Here are my wheel hubs

 

Both Kari and Massimo say that Humbrol 150 is a good match for AMT-4 then it is possible that I have actually studied a very good original sample of the Soviet paint.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Aardvark]

In Russian article which I refer to here:

as equivalent AMT-4 mentioned FS34151/FS24151, FS32102/FS24102, FS34098.

FS34151= Humbrol 151

FS34102 = 

Humbrol 117

FS34098 ~= Humbrol 149

Humbrol 151 

not produced, 

Humbrol 149 approximate equivalent, so from Humbrol , no alternative Humbrol 117.

But, FS34151 it's also USAF primer colour equivalent, so you just need to see what color Revell gives in own  models assembly 

for USAF primer colour  and also for Vietnam camouflage where used FS34102 as US Light green.

Those  You need to watch what Revell offers in models assembly 

for F-100D, F-102, F-104, F-105 e.t.c. in Vietnam.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Antti, 

thank you very much for sharing the chips. 

The MiG-3 was painted before the war's outbreak, so it is not AMT-4 but AII green, as the blue is AII light blue. 

A question: does it appear the same on the metallic and wooden parts?

Regards

Massimo

Edited June 20, 2020 by Massimo Tessitori
mistake

[Vlad]

Thank you all for your input!

 

In the end I went with Revell 361. I compromised slightly because my pots of both Humbrol 117 and 226 are the kind that give a rough grainy finish and Revell paints go on beautifully. I think the yellow in the 226 on my test was sloppy paintwork as I rushed to get a sample. Thinned and carefully applied, I expect all three colours (Hu 117, Hu 226 and Revell 361) to look "close enough", to my eyes at least. I still need to decal my plane but I'll post some completed pictures when it's done.

[Antti_K]

19 hours ago, Massimo Tessitori said:

Hi Antti, 

thank you very much for sharing the chips. 

The MiG-3 was painted before the war's outbreak, so it is not AMT-4 but AII green, as the blue is AII light blue. 

A question: does it appear the same on the metallic and wooden parts?

Regards

Massimo

Hello Massimo,

 

Thank you for the information concerning the time frame and specification. I had a chance to study only the rear fuselage (behind the cockpit glazing), a horizontal stabilizer and one complete wing. To my eye it all looked wooden structure. The green paint looked darker and perhaps more olive at some areas (see the chip) and brighter "grass" green elsewhere. It is however painted with only one green colour.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Antti,

the horizontal stabilizer... do you mean the one where the elevator is hinged? It should be metallic.

If you mean the one where the rudder is hinged, that was wooden, solidal to the rear fuselage. 

Thank you for your informations. 

Regards

Massimo

[Aardvark]

For mutual understanding.  Where there are rivets, there is naturally metal cover:

Resource:

http://rusplane.ru/mig3.php

 

B.R.

Serge

[Vlad]

So this is what Revell 361 looks like on my La-5. I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[Aardvark]

53 minutes ago, Vlad said:

So this is what Revell 361 looks like on my La-5. I'm pretty happy with it.

 

As for my very close.

 

B.R.

Serge

[72modeler]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:46 PM, Vlad said:

But on that piece of MiG the green looks quite light,

To these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs,the green on that preserved Mig-3 section  looks  a lot like ANA 611, interior green, FS 34151! What do you think?

Mike

[dragonlanceHR]

4 hours ago, Vlad said:

So this is what Revell 361 looks like on my La-5. I'm pretty happy with it.

 

Looks excellent.

Cheers,

Vedran

[Seawinder]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

To these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs,the green on that preserved Mig-3 section  looks  a lot like ANA 611, interior green, FS 34151! What do you think?

Mike

Yes, and I said as much above. I think Amt-4 is somewhat darker than 34151, but it's the same sort of hue. I still go with AKAN's rendition, but Gunze's Mitsubishi cockpit green (C126) is prety close. The latter is only found in the acrylic lacquer Mr. Color line, which is one of my favorite paint brands anyway.

[Vlad]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

To these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs,the green on that preserved Mig-3 section  looks  a lot like ANA 611, interior green, FS 34151! What do you think?

Mike

 

I agree, and Humbrol 226 is marketed as "Interior Green", but I don't know how close it is to FS 34151. I would have used Humbrol 226 if I had more confidence in the quality of the paint. If I find a new style pot I'll buy it for future VVS projects.

[John Thompson]

31 minutes ago, Vlad said:

 

I would have used Humbrol 226 if I had more confidence in the quality of the paint.

Tell me about it - Humbrol's quality is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates!

 

John

[Vlad]

1 minute ago, John Thompson said:

Tell me about it - Humbrol's quality is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates!

 

John

They have a new style of pot (about 2 years old now), flip-top 18.2ml, left in the picture below. The few of these I have are really excellent, almost Revell Aqua level of brush painting, smooth, self-levelling and not grainy matt. But shops even now have stock of the older screw-top ones, which can be iffy. I'll be replacing mine as and when I find the new ones.

 

[Antti_K]

On 6/20/2020 at 4:15 PM, Massimo Tessitori said:

Hi Antti,

the horizontal stabilizer... do you mean the one where the elevator is hinged? It should be metallic.

If you mean the one where the rudder is hinged, that was wooden, solidal to the rear fuselage. 

Thank you for your informations. 

Regards

Massimo

Hello Massimo,

 

I checked my photos and you are right of course: the horizontal stabilizer is made of metal. There is all kind of bits and pieces displayed at the museum and I remembered a wing tip on top of the pile.

 

There is a serial "2171" painted with black on the lower surface of the wing tip, just in front of the aileron.

 

The metal parts have suffered somewhat and it is possible that they are slightly lighter than the wooden parts (which are in pretty good condition). On metal parts the paint looks lighter there and darker here. It is pretty difficult to say what the actual colour is. This same variation is visible on the wooden parts as well, but it isn't so pronounced.

 

The light blue is looks more grey on metal parts than that on wooden ones.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Antti_K]

Hello guys,

 

here are some pictures I took at the Anti-aircraft gunnery museum at Hyrylä, Vantaa. Then there is a wing at Vesivehmaa museum. Note, that the colour is different in real life than in these photos (check the NCS codes in my earlier post). I wouldn't use Humbrol 226 to representate this green.

 

 

 

 

The rear fuselage interior is brushed with a thick, clear lacquer that looks red or orange in areas where the layer is thick.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Mike Starmer]

For what it is worth after reading numerous forums and Massimo's website, I mixed AMT-4 with Humbrol enamals thus; 6 parts 226 + 1 part 195 which reduced to obvious 'yellowish' appearnce of 226 and introduced a green tinge.

[Aardvark]

5 hours ago, 72modeler said:

To these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs,the green on that preserved Mig-3 section  looks  a lot like ANA 611, interior green, FS 34151!

The fact that one of the options for AMT-4 is its equivalent FS34151 / FS24151 I'm writing in this topic  here:

 

On 6/19/2020 at 12:02 PM, Aardvark said:

as equivalent AMT-4 mentioned FS34151/FS24151

with reference to a Russian monograph written by professional historians working in the aviation industry of the Russian Federation. But understand, that they are Russians, do they really know something about their own colors?

3 hours ago, Seawinder said:

I still go with AKAN's rendition, but Gunze's Mitsubishi cockpit green (C126) is prety close.

Why do i need

Gunze's Mitsubishi cockpit green (C126) if Gunze's maked Mr.Color 351which is part of the kit "Interior colour"

and is the direct equivalent FS34151?

2 hours ago, Vlad said:

The few of these I have are really excellent, almost Revell Aqua level of brush painting, smooth, self-levelling and not grainy matt. But shops even now have stock of the older screw-top ones, which can be iffy. I'll be replacing mine as and when I find the new ones.

 

It’s great that Humbrol began to make acrylic paint turning his face to the modelers, and not what they stood before the modelers before, but there is one more nuance related to the question: “How long can the Humbrol acrylic paint be stored without losing its properties?”.  I am interested as the owner of several bottles of acrylic Humbrol as in Your photo on the right, because the acrylic paint in these jars turned into some kind of flakes, and I did not open these paints for a long time since the acquisition, i.e.  they were in unopened factory packaging.

1 hour ago, Antti_K said:

. Note, that the colour is different in real life than in these photos (check the NCS codes in my earlier post). I wouldn't use Humbrol 226 to representate this green.

 

In this case, we see the difference in shades of green between the metal part of the frame canopy  and the wooden fuselage!  It would be interesting to make an analysis of the chemical composition of the paint on the fuselage and on the frame canopy.Because, as I already wrote in the Pe-2 topic, it should be different in chemical composition, one for wood and AMT fabric, the other for metal A, and of course their colors will be close but not always the same! 

Therefore, I am a little surprised by the search, in this topic, for one single shadow AMT-4 correspondence, when the Russians themselves write that there could be THREE shadow

such correspondences!

 

B.R.

Serge

[dragonlanceHR]

Serge,

first we have to define the base colour standard (which is 4BO btw), then we can discuss the variations due to chemical composition of different types of paint.

 

Antti_K posted some nice photos, but beware of the lighting/photo flash.

 

Cheers,

 

Vedran

[Graham Boak]

4BO?  That's normally used to describe a paint for the Army, not either the prewar nor wartime greens for the Airforce.

[dragonlanceHR]

This is really old news. It is mentioned in the Vakhlamov-Orlov. 4BO was the new color standard, AII Green and AMT-4 were aircraft paint matches. AMT-4 was developed because AII Green was too visible on the standard German aerial photo film.

 

Previous standard was 3B, a more Olive Drab color.

Edited June 22, 2020 by dragonlanceHR

[Graham Boak]

Thank you.  However we do not all have access to, nor can read, Russian-language sources, and prefer to us the Air Force terminology anyway.

[dragonlanceHR]

It gets buried in the discussion, but in was mentioned in the long deleted kerfuffles on HS and ARC. Pity I lost my saved files.

[Tbolt]

I've read through this thread but I'm a bit confused about the sort of colour AMT-4 should be. I went to use a tin of Colourcoats AMT-4 and it's quite brown.

 

Just to show how brown it is, this is the tin compared to the Xtracolor tin of 34151 ( I've run out of Humbrol 150 ). Note the 34151 lid is a little bit lighter than the paint, but the shade is the same. Colourcoats paint the tin lids with the batch of paint inside the tin. Any thoughts?