The most famous Seafox of all but what is its serial?

[85sqn]

Hi Folks,

 

I am cracking on with the venerable Matchbox Seafox in 1/72 and having a love of ‘The Battle of the River Plate’ film I am doing it as one of Ajax’s pair. Now, in the book ‘Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings 1937-1941 they are listed as K8582 & K8591. With K8591 as the spotter a/c during the battle. Some photos of both appear and the film on youtube ‘Ajax comes home’ shows what is reported to be K8591 in what looks to me, two different greys.

 

K8582 is not in doubt and also seen in the latest FAA Sqns book with a picture of two of Ajax’s Seafoxes that says it is with K8581.

 

Fleet Air Arm Aircraft says K8581 was on board Orion in Dec 1939, K8582 was on Ajax and K8591 was 718 Sqn (the Seafox sqn for all of the Leander class ships).

 

So my question is, was K8591 the spotter in Ajax or has Lee Howard and team found that it was actually K8581? 
 

Or did all three on serve onboard Ajax at some point with K8581 being replaced with K8591?
 

Or is this all case of a misidentified serial?

 

Best regards

 

Nick

 

@iang

[72modeler]

See the link below- sorry it doesn't confirm which Seafox was involved, K8591 or K8582.

Mike

 

https://www.fleetairarmoa.org/news/on-this-day-13-december-1939-1

 

[iang]

 

Photographs of Ajax at Montevideo on January 4th 1940 show Seafox K8591 on her catapult. Though much of the front fuselage is covered with a tarpaulin, K8591 appears to be finished in pre-war overall aluminium dope and Cerrux Grey. No code was carried.  Ajax was filmed soon after her return to Plymouth dockyard on 31st January 1940 and the same Seafox is visible on her catapult, is finished in a disruptive camouflage scheme to the engine cowl and floats, both of which are largely hidden from view in the Montevideo photo. I spent a long time going through this film frame by frame to identify the serial. The photograph in the book doesn't show it well as the print was made from the film at a slightly different frame. It seems very likely that this disruptive scheme was also carried during the River Plate action. From the photographs available this is probably a single blue-grey disruptive pattern to the metal parts of the aircraft (engine cowl and floats), with the fabric parts still in aluminium dope. 

 

K8581 was indeed allocated to Ajax at some point as I have a photo that shows Ajax's badge on the black fin and red prop warning marks to the floats, but these features date the photo to the period before December 1939  (and K8581 was Orion's Seafox in December 1939).  Both K8582 and K8591 were embarked on Ajax in late 1939. I believe that K8582 was damaged prior to the Plate action.  The FAAM also have a photo of K8591 being hoisted on board Ajax prior to any disruptive camouflage being applied, but with no black fin, ship's badge or prop warning marks to the floats. They also have a photo of two Seafoxes together at the Falkland Islands - supposedly K8581 & K8582 - but these pre-date December 1939 as both aircraft still have black fins. 

 

HTH

 

IG

 

 

 

 

[85sqn]

Cheers Ian, that's perfect. The photo of the two together is the one in the latest 'Squadrons' book and hence where my questioning stemmed from. 

 

If I may ask, I am struggling to see in photos which is the aluminium and which is cerrux grey. The fuselage and floats are made of aluminium so presumably this is the grey. The wings, rudder and tail are fabric so presumably this is the aluminium? Some Seafoxes I have seen photos of are definitely all silver. K8591 doesn't seem to have any sheen and it looks like there is some paint chipping of the lighter grey on the cowl.

[iang]

1 hour ago, 85sqn said:

Cheers Ian, that's perfect. The photo of the two together is the one in the latest 'Squadrons' book and hence where my questioning stemmed from. 

 

If I may ask, I am struggling to see in photos which is the aluminium and which is cerrux grey. The fuselage and floats are made of aluminium so presumably this is the grey. The wings, rudder and tail are fabric so presumably this is the aluminium? Some Seafoxes I have seen photos of are definitely all silver. K8591 doesn't seem to have any sheen and it looks like there is some paint chipping of the lighter grey on the cowl.

Yes, that's right.  On the serial, I've now found my original notebook with the notes I took when I viewed the original IWM film (ADM 442) on 27/5/02 - 18 years ago!  I identified it as K8x91, as the second numeral was impossible to make out. A lot rests on this, as the serial in the Montevideo photo is even harder to make out, but the notes do not indicate any doubt about the identity as K8591 and I was obviously aware of the significance at the time. I don't know whether it is still possible to view these old acetate films at the IWM.  

[85sqn]

Perfect, thank you Ian. Much appreciated. I'm not sure which of the three to do yet as the two with the Ajax badge on the tail are quite fetching.

 

All the best

 

Nick