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Warning for fellow curators


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Hello all,

 

Just a warning for fellow curators and assistants around the globe, and I know some of you post on here. This reached me this morning from our club here, so I have been swinging it around to other fora where I know people in the biz hang out.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8405899/Museum-curator-tweets-advice-destroy-bronze-statues-chemicals-BLM-protests.html

 

Apparently a lot of people around the world have accessed the relevant posts that contain the ingredients to do permanent damage, so please be aware. These ingredients also work against other items of historical value unfortunately. Hopefully the necessary measures can be taken to get some protection for any items at threat (those that can be protected).

 

Please accept my apologies if this breaks any forum laws. I have no comments to make on what I think about this behaviour. I do not believe that is needed....

 

Take care all

 

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A very irresponsible thing for a museum curator to do.

 

Julien

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The woman is a disgrace. She apparently has had a very privileged life but clearly is not very gifted with intellect or common sense. Did she think that this advice would only be applied by all those who share her own fanaticism and moral highground. Did she not see that it could apply to destroying all manner of artworks? Maybe someone might take offence at a Henry Moore sculpture or just feel like destroying a Duke of Wellington etc. She has given a recipe for destroying bronze artworks and many other things to anyone with malice or who delights in destruction. 

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As an American that considers himself an Historian. My most humblest of apologies for the insanity gripping the world. This woman is disgusting and sadly very representative of Americans under a certain age. I weep knowing what is going on and what is coming in the future if we continue down this path. One of the saddest things that BLM protestors have done here in the U.S. was to destroy the 54th Massachusetts Infantry (The movie Glory) memorial.

 

https://www.wcvb.com/amp/article/shaw-54th-regiment-memorial-defaced/32733306

 

 They very sadly dont know their history, and dont understand that the 54th was the very first free black infantry unit in the U.S.Army. I pray they dont attack the Tuskegee memorials as well. 
 

Dennis

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The Daily Mail is well known for making things up and fomenting racist views. I question the accuracy of this 'news'.

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4 hours ago, bhouse said:

The Daily Mail is well known for making things up and fomenting racist views. I question the accuracy of this 'news'.

To be fair this is the "MailOnLine" rather than the printed periodical, but I agree that certainly over the last couple of years the electronic version has plumbed the depths of sheer stupidity and outrageous provocation, well beyond any reasonable definition of 'debate'.  (Stopped paying for and reading the 'real' printed version when the Editor changed three/four years ago . . .)

Edited by Dave Batt
gramer & spelin
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7 hours ago, bhouse said:

The Daily Mail is well known for making things up and fomenting racist views. I question the accuracy of this 'news'.

Whether you like the Mail or not, if you'd read the article, they made direct quotes from Twitter, so whatever you think of them this is either real or you'll have to question Twitter's motives.  It would be naive to think that other news agencies don't have an agenda of their own... this also strays too far too close to politics for my liking.  Let's not go there, eh? :hmmm: 

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I won’t discuss the politics of her position as that’s not for this website forum other than to say it’s a painful subject for many people and I suspect is capable of polarising views towards extreme positions. As Mike says this has the capacity to take us all into areas and remarks best ventilated in a different place. 
 

One thing I think I might be excused is a personal observation on her. I do rather look down on anyone who clearly is inciting others to act in a way where they will face repercussions while clearly not having the guts or conviction to come out and speak plainly about what they are suggesting or do it themselves. I detest folk that make bullets for other people to fire while making sure that the consequences of that do not come to their door. That applies to school and workplace nonsense, politics, whatever. It’s not a view I have that’s related to the issues she is engaged in. I just think it displays a lack of character to do what she is doing - or more accurately inferring what others should go out and do. You wouldn’t get a good old British suffragette hiding behind such weasel words.  

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I think it's a very inflammatory issue whichever side you are own.

And there are clearly sides with no centre ground.

How did we reach raised vs recessed panel lines ?  :)

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42 minutes ago, IanHx said:

I think it's a very inflammatory issue whichever side you are own.

And there are clearly sides with no centre ground.

How did we reach raised vs recessed panel lines ?  :)

You should ask about the paint scheme on Malta Spitfires :wicked:

The good thing is collectively we have mostly avoided getting the dummy (thats a comforter for the cousins) spat out. And we retain a sense of humour if not a our sanity

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Oh come now, nothing beats the great PC10 debate not to mention the 'was purple really used in luftstreitkrafte camouflage or was it really rusty brown?' debates. Incidentally, and to totally de-rail the thread, I am currently reading a fascinating book called 'Bright Earth' which is a real eye opener. According to the book, on the lines of the aforementioned 'purple or brown' issue, it is not known for certain whether the ancient Romans mean what we call purple in their writings as there is no direct evidence for the colour they meant and the shellfish extract they used really makes more of a red/maroon colour than what we think of as Royal purple. It certainly wasn't anything like the vivid colours we know now. Also in this book is a fascinating history which basically, if correct, states that everything we know as the modern chemical and pharmaceutical industry was born from the pursuit of colour for dyeing cloth. Fashion could be said to have kicked off the modern world from the point of view of chemistry. Ciba Geigy, Baeyer, Agfa, IGFarben, ICI and many more all developed in the pursuit of chemical dyes. Even Chemotherapy (modern pharmaceuticals) emerged from studies of synthetic dyes where it was noted how organic cells reacted to them. I would recommend this book to anyone with an enquiring mind even if they aren't particularly interested in Art and artists pigments. It basically tells a tale of how the modern world. Chemistry and global trade really was driven by the desire to get more colour into ones life and also contains fascinating insights into the minds of our ancestors and their, sometimes rather strange thought processes and 'leaps of faith'. 

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A couple of years ago I had cataract replacement performed.Our brown sheds definitely were purple after the op,well for a couple of days anyway.

 

Dave

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On 6/13/2020 at 10:18 AM, Beardie said:

Oh come now, nothing beats the great PC10 debate not to mention the 'was purple really used in luftstreitkrafte camouflage or was it really rusty brown?' debates. Incidentally, and to totally de-rail the thread, I am currently reading a fascinating book called 'Bright Earth' which is a real eye opener. According to the book, on the lines of the aforementioned 'purple or brown' issue, it is not known for certain whether the ancient Romans mean what we call purple in their writings as there is no direct evidence for the colour they meant and the shellfish extract they used really makes more of a red/maroon colour than what we think of as Royal purple. It certainly wasn't anything like the vivid colours we know now. Also in this book is a fascinating history which basically, if correct, states that everything we know as the modern chemical and pharmaceutical industry was born from the pursuit of colour for dyeing cloth. Fashion could be said to have kicked off the modern world from the point of view of chemistry. Ciba Geigy, Baeyer, Agfa, IGFarben, ICI and many more all developed in the pursuit of chemical dyes. Even Chemotherapy (modern pharmaceuticals) emerged from studies of synthetic dyes where it was noted how organic cells reacted to them. I would recommend this book to anyone with an enquiring mind even if they aren't particularly interested in Art and artists pigments. It basically tells a tale of how the modern world. Chemistry and global trade really was driven by the desire to get more colour into ones life and also contains fascinating insights into the minds of our ancestors and their, sometimes rather strange thought processes and 'leaps of faith'. 

Sounds fascinating - can you give us an author/ISBN please?

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I sure can @Admiral Puff , the author is Philip Ball, and the full title of the book is 'Bright Earth The Invention of Colour'. ISBN:9780670893461

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Thank you, sir - you're a gentleman and a scholar, and there are very few of us left ...

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Lucky that most of the people choosing to deface monuments are lazy and stupid so they'll juts fall back on using paint. Not ideal, but at least easy to clean.

 

Also, defacing and stealing from museums is nothing new and it's not activists you need to worry about most of the time, it's enthusiasts that are the real problem. When my old man was on the board of a museum, they caught several people taking bits of displays, things like 40mm rounds out of the gun and one person even got away with stealing a replica pistol from a bolted shut case. One day they realised that someone had sprayed WD40 on all the engine makers plates, obviously with the intention of coming back a week or so later with a screwdriver and stealing them.

Edited by Brad
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1 hour ago, Brad said:

Lucky that most of the people choosing to deface monuments are lazy and stupid so they'll juts fall back on using paint. Not ideal, but at least easy to clean.

 

Also, defacing and stealing from museums is nothing new and it's not activists you need to worry about most of the time, it's enthusiasts that are the real problem. When my old man was on the board of a museum, they caught several people taking bits of displays, things like 40mm rounds out of the gun and one person even got away with stealing a replica pistol from a bolted shut case. One day they realised that someone had sprayed WD40 on all the engine makers plates, obviously with the intention of coming back a week or so later with a screwdriver and stealing them.

 

Many years ago, back when I was a Friend Of Duxford, there was an article in one of the newsletters where someone had broken in one night and sawed off the control column from their Fairey Swordfish. Definitely not a random act of vandalism.

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2 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

 

Many years ago, back when I was a Friend Of Duxford, there was an article in one of the newsletters where someone had broken in one night and sawed off the control column from their Fairey Swordfish. Definitely not a random act of vandalism.

 

Oh they're just a menace sometimes. Also you gotta watch members who join just to steal stuff, the museum lost a FW 190 Control column that way and when the previous president decided to have an open door policy on the library, the theft was shocking. It is now, thankfully padlocked and you're not allowed in there without someone of authority.

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On 6/13/2020 at 1:18 AM, Beardie said:

Oh come now, nothing beats the great PC10 debate not to mention the 'was purple really used in luftstreitkrafte camouflage or was it really rusty brown?' debates. Incidentally, and to totally de-rail the thread, I am currently reading a fascinating book called 'Bright Earth' which is a real eye opener. According to the book, on the lines of the aforementioned 'purple or brown' issue, it is not known for certain whether the ancient Romans mean what we call purple in their writings as there is no direct evidence for the colour they meant and the shellfish extract they used really makes more of a red/maroon colour than what we think of as Royal purple. It certainly wasn't anything like the vivid colours we know now. Also in this book is a fascinating history which basically, if correct, states that everything we know as the modern chemical and pharmaceutical industry was born from the pursuit of colour for dyeing cloth. Fashion could be said to have kicked off the modern world from the point of view of chemistry. Ciba Geigy, Baeyer, Agfa, IGFarben, ICI and many more all developed in the pursuit of chemical dyes. Even Chemotherapy (modern pharmaceuticals) emerged from studies of synthetic dyes where it was noted how organic cells reacted to them. I would recommend this book to anyone with an enquiring mind even if they aren't particularly interested in Art and artists pigments. It basically tells a tale of how the modern world. Chemistry and global trade really was driven by the desire to get more colour into ones life and also contains fascinating insights into the minds of our ancestors and their, sometimes rather strange thought processes and 'leaps of faith'. 

Interesting point about the search for dyes essentially founding the modern chemicals industry, in the 19th Century I believe.  When I was at school I read a little book called Fuels, Explosives and Dyestuffs.  I always thought that was a slightly strange grouping.  Now it makes sense.  An incantation comes back to me from that - Badische Anilin und Soda-Fabrik.  Rather better known by its initials I think.

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The first synthetic dyes were the Aniline dyes in the Agfa and BASF names and they were named for Anil, the plant that Indigo was made from and which did much for the British economy before the discovery of the synthetic equivalents. These dyes revolutionised the dye and pigment industries and also decimated the British monopoly on Indigo manufacture which was, if I recall correctly, 80% of the empires income from India and thereabouts.  Overnight the Indigo fields became virtually worthless. It really is fascinating how it all interlinks. 

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... which reminds me @beardie I meant to recommend Origins by Lewis Dartnell to you. Enthralling read full of odd and unusual facts (one of which blows holes in something I said on your unusual facts thread)

 

On 11/06/2020 at 00:24, sapperastro said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8405899/Museum-curator-tweets-advice-destroy-bronze-statues-chemicals-BLM-protests.html

 

Apparently a lot of people around the world have accessed the relevant posts that contain the ingredients to do permanent damage, so please be aware. These ingredients also work against other items of historical value unfortunately. Hopefully the necessary measures can be taken to get some protection for any items at threat (those that can be protected).

Isn't this the kind of stuff there have been recurring panics over since the 60s and 70s? Back when I was growing up this was all in The Anarchist's Handbook and Jolly roger Cookbook that did the rounds on photocopies and then floppy disk ASCII files. 

 

On 12/06/2020 at 12:03, Mike said:

It would be naive to think that other news agencies don't have an agenda of their own...

Probably everyone has an agenda at work. Mainly to collect as many clicks and shares on social media as possible to get website views and advertising revenue. The Telegraph today is trying to talk up a threat to the Bomber Harris statue that when you trace it back comes from an avowedly pacifist group calling for a discussion on Harris's actions prewar over use of bombing in policing the Kurds etc. rather than proposing direct action and pulling it down. No substance but I bet it drove a heck of a lot of website traffic 

Edited by LostCosmonauts
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