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1:32 Hawker Siddeley Andover E.Mk 3 - 3D Print


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Hi BM'ers!

 

I've been a little lacking in posts over here in recent years - bit tied up with moderating in another place that focuses on Large Scale Planes.

 

However, I've recently acquired a copy of the 1:32 Hawker Siddeley Andover from Toshihiko of One Man Model in Japan and thought, being a British type, I really ought to share here too...

 

Very occasionally you log on to the Interweb and spot something that immediatedly shouts 'what the...'

 

Well, this was one of those moments. And it proceeded to create a 'disturbance in the force' - or at least my model building plans.

 

Forum member Anthony Galbraith had spotted that Toshihiko, of 'One Man Model', was drawing up the Hawker Siddeley HS780 Andover C.Mk 1 with a view to 3D printing in 1:72 and 1:48 scales. Anthony asked if this could be printed in 1:32 and the intial answer was a no.

 

However, a few weeks later the answer came back as a yes - and Anthony posted on the LSP forums asking if anyone else would be interested in a 1:32 print of the Andover. Two immediate positive responses - and a slightly delayed yes from me - subsequently followed up by a fifth - and the project was on!

 

Oh, and beware, it's a fair size - here are the fuselage parts, taped together, compared to HK Models 1:32 B-17:

 

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I put together a review here.

 

Plan is to build mine as a 115 Sqn E.Mk 3 from the mid/late '80s as we used to see them a lot in the skies over Oxfordshire.

 

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Back in a mo...

 

Iain

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First thing I wanted to address was the tailplanes - these aren't quite correct where they join the fuselage (Toshihiko has subsequently inproved the rear fuselage print).

 

This is just a detail that was missed - it happens!

 

The giveaway is the view from the rear - look at the sections inboard of the elevators - angled on the print - level on the aeroplane:

 

2311-30.jpg

 

48b427_78f2cfa336214d1194e1fb29afe3d806~

 

Fuselage tail - this was my first experience of cutting into the material - removing the lower section of rudder.

 

48b427_f4cf33cd5b294a92957eaf66d1806bea~

 

I could see there was actually a working gap between the base of the rudder and the fuselage empennage - so I made some cuts along the 'vertical' hinge line - and with very little work I ended up with this:

 

48b427_9fcd1c5d53db407f9b4983f36a3c1b34~

 

Now, the interesting part of this exercise was discovering how much of this area was hollow - which it is (with internal re-inforcement webbing).

 

It turns out this was a bit of a revelation - it explains the light weight of a lot of the parts - and, I expect, will make some processes I have in mind a lot easier to acheive:

 

48b427_b52b1900a9684c9684e6df24468b284c~

 

I've also found it's worth running a brush of suitable solvent around the cut edges - in this case EMA Plastic Weld.

 

Wish me luck - I may need it! :)

 

And stay tuned for the next thrilling installment of "I bought an Andover..."

 

Iain

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I was really pleased when I found that lots of the parts were hollow - it's going to be really useful for some of the things I want to do - but am aware that I'll need to make any modified areas structurally sound - and I have a few ideas around that as I get used to the material.

 

So, about this cockpit section I'd started on?

 

Well. I've had the sanding sticks and wet and dry out (used wet, of course!):

 

48b427_887df3e13d2b4b02a10704a380d76e82~

 

And some more:

 

48b427_455be2f668ef446a97dc9333e041c1b8~

 

And an experiment with some Revell Plasto filler - worked a treat!

 

48b427_bbec0b84f9474e0dbfe8810ac5c7605c~

 

So much so that I've now covered all the other relevant areas of this piece so that I can smooth back tomorrow.

 

'Eyebrow' windows have been opened out.

 

48b427_71efbba80b624059887025c66343518a~

 

Here's what the inside looks like - removeable gear doors and ledges to fit the gear bay and cockpit sections - well thought through engineering!

 

Iain

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So, about these tailplanes...

 

Baldrick: "I have a cunning plan..."

 

Blackadder: "Really, Baldrick? A cunning and subtle one?

 

Baldrick: "Yes, sir."

 

Blackadder: "As cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University?"

 

Baldrick: "Absolutely, sir."

 

Blackadder: "Oh go on then, I've got nothing better to do just now..."

 

Baldrick: "Well, you know those expensive parts we got from Japan..."

 

Blackadder: "Yes, and?"

 

Baldrick: "Well, we take some of the bits, and we cut them up..."

 

Blackadder: "Which gives us what, exactly?"

 

Baldrick: "Even more bits, sir!"

 

 

My attempt at humour aside (and apologies for anyone that isn't a Blackadder fan, or even seen it) - but I bit the bullet tonight.

 

Since I spotted the error with the tail planes last week I've been pondering on finding that 'cunning plan' and, well, which ever way I thought it through I would have to remove the tailplane sections as moulded.

 

Concern was two fold:

  • Cutting as close to the fuselage shape as possible...
  • Not cutting through to the internal structure and damaging it.

With the knowledge that the kit had a number of voids in it's structure, I was hoping I'd find some here - rather than having to cut all the way through the thickness of the tailplane.

 

Fresh 10A Scalpel blade and I started scribing along the lower tailplane to fuselage interface - multiple passes taking care to follow the surface of the fuselage as closely as possible.

 

After a few minutes work - we penetrated - there was, indeed, a void at the root of the tailplane.

 

A few more runs with the blade to cut through the internal webs and I could feel the tailplane move. So, now I followed the upper tailplane to fuselage interface with the point of the scalpel - until it was all the way through.

 

This was easily repeated on the other side - I now had separate tailplanes - and two big holes where they once were:

 

48b427_aca7d2238746465ea09d34dd94d7507a~

 

48b427_5b2701367c3240928816c631f9909e10~

 

May not look it in the photos (black plastic is never flattering) - but the cuts are all pretty neat - and there's been absolutely no intrusion into the interior structural details.

 

Now I could think about bolting it all together properly - this will probably involve lots more cutting, some sheet plastic, some brass tube and some casting resin - in no particular order.

 

Iain

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I also discovered the step at the base of the rudder was incorrectly done - and needed to be removed as the rudder goes all the way down to the top of the rear fuselage - with no 'step'.

 

So out with a 10A scalpel blade again and this was removed.

 

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48b427_047c504089cd4543ac2a8bf27a9ffe71~

 

Removal was very straightforward - and we're left with more loose strands of ABS that I'll leave in situ as they'll provide a little extra strength as part of the next step.

 

A small Milliput 'dam' was added at the rudder hinge end and the area subsequently filled with casting resin, after masking the sides and raising the tail so that the area was perfectly horizontal at the top and a meniscus of resin allowed to form before it started going off.

 

48b427_d5ea0e5f95bd46ae98420cf9b1dfe778~

 

This area will now be sanded back using my 'T' bar - so it's perfectly flat.

 

Just working out best positions to bond in some brass tube to act as mounts for the eventually to be replaced tailplanes...

 

Interior structure as printed - note the box structure for the tailplane:

 

48b427_76d2554089d444478dd2271ebe1c8c28~

 

Back soon.

 

Iain

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Glad you have escaped the moderation curse and are getting some “stick time” at the modelling desk. My comfy chair (you have Blackadder so I raise you Monty Python) is pulled up and sandwiches made ready for the journey along the way to a finished Andover. :popcorn:Operating kneeling undercarriage on the cards?:wicked:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Iain (32SIG) said:

My attempt at humour aside (and apologies for anyone that isn't a Blackadder fan, or even seen it) - but I bit the bullet tonight.

Was that the bullet with your name written on it Iain :) ?

 

Another attention grabbing build to follow and learn from I think ......

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Meanwhile, back at the front end:

 

48b427_2e9279b4b84c47e6a5732706f5a0d31d~

 

48b427_a747d91e7a7a4df682ec49f48be640a9~

 

48b427_44fd72b340b447438caa655ae7ddb247~

 

And with a coat of Halfords Grey Primer:

 

48b427_fd29e7b3b8e34ce09c353e5a3a5bd53b~

 

48b427_af363108dd144b4a969407ff3eae10b9~

 

And with some spot filling needed, and removal of the gear doors performed:

 

48b427_892f7d9f4a3245fa93e5e92821ffdfbd~

 

48b427_4c8418c854a14c49823ea5536a154f33~

 

48b427_d4bdc73b1d8f487fa341156e315523f6~

 

48b427_f4b4f4fbd1ad440bab4f756c2b7beb65~

 

48b427_fd7230617076409abfc6edfda2f22ba2~

 

Material is a lot like wood - cutting with the 'grain' (moulded layers) easier than cutting across - and surfaces need different clear-up depending on the 'run of the grain'.

 

Material is quite tough here and can take a lot of abuse - but also needs a bit of work with the scalpel to separate the gear doors - even though they are printed with a gap along either side.

 

Iain

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Back to that empennage...

 

A start made on sanding - and panel lines sealed with EMS Plastic Weld ready for filler:

 

48b427_d4b73ea637bc467ba23244d0e4bd7dc0~

 

48b427_4f4efa0b3d0e4bd4b71e4999f1d5a222~

 

Section at the base of the rudder that I filled with casting resin has been sanded flat with my trusty 'T' Bar...

 

I wanted to separate the rudder from the fin (they are printed together).

 

This was for three reasons:

  • to improve the look of the rudder hinge line
  • investigate the internal construction and how easy it was - as I intend doing the same with elevators and ailerons
  • make it easier to try some thoughts I had on thinning the trailing edges of all flying surfaces

Here a start has been made - following the printed hinge lines with a fresh 10A scalpel blade:

 

48b427_326fd0d6714740e2927dcbe0d93c96ea~

 

Same comments re. cutting along and across the print lines - and not too much force - the skins are relatively thin here - and you will crack either the surface, or some of the internal structure.

 

And removed. Take care as there will still be internal attachments even when it feels separated:

 

48b427_a832353e4b704e1287a2ed950ae6f7b8~

 

And I now had the three pieces that will make up the (quite large) rudder:

 

48b427_ec03257fab2d4ffc9ef6ea09198cb7ca~

 

This is quite a chunky component - which actually makes working on it easier.

 

Iain

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So, let me introduce Mr T Bar - one of my most useful, and yet most basic, tools!

 

It's a section of extruded aluminium with a handle shape on one side - and a perfectly flat plate on the other.

 

You attach sheets of relevant grades of wet and dry to the flat face with Spray Mount adhesive (removing old residues with White Spirit).

 

I bought it years ago from John Adams (Aeroclub) to help me with vacform projects, but it's been very useful for a huge number of other things.

 

My hope was that the thick trailing edges on the Andover print were actually hollow inside - and the skin actually formed a box, rather than a solid.

 

Well - it is a hollow box!

 

So - scribe a line down the middle of the flat trailing edge in relevant parts with the scalpel blade until cut all the way through.

 

Open up a section at top and bottom of component to allow for flex - and the outer surfaces to bend.

 

Run along this central cut - on the inside of it with a diamond file - until there's enough space to pry the edges apart and insert the side of the T Bar.

 

48b427_a533a009c491470fbc76f5f2d342de5b~

 

In this case with 400 grade wet and dry.

 

Sand along one side until edge razor sharp (didn't take much) - then turning the T Bar around in the 'slot' to sand the trailing edge on the other side.

 

This illustrates better:

 

48b427_76cc1f82f48245f8b6fbdbdf0758f018~

 

48b427_55892e2587d24f2bafb33b8c266c1424~

 

And we end up with this - look at the difference, for not a lot of work!

 

48b427_8b5269e52dd4417e9c3d4af725f4967e~

 

Section at left is the upper part of the rudder removed from the fin, and prepped with the T Bar as above.

 

Section at right is the section removed from the rear fuselage, with the original trailing edge.

 

This made me really, really happy - it means sorting the trailing edges of all the flying surfaces is now going to be relatively straightforward I reckon.

 

A nice glass of vino was quaffed in celebration! 

 

Iain

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Hopefully I'm not boring everyone with some of the things I'm doing/finding.

 

I'm learning about the material and nuances of the print and kind of brain dumping here - but can just keep to headline updates...

 

Anyway - have a few more update images - here's the fin in position, now rudder separated:

 

48b427_7460208f426b4099bfc225f77234c619~

 

And with the thinned rudder sections loosely in place:

 

48b427_3fe412a001024528bc9ae316f7922ac9~

 

Now, back to those tailplane roots...

 

Had been putting this off - but one quiet Sunday I dived in with both feet.

 

Seats were cut for two sections of aluminium tube cut slightly over-length.

 

These were then seated on beds of Milliput to allow time to adjust and, most importantly, align as needed. Superglue would have taken no prisoners.

 

I ended up mounting them a little higher than the internal bed as I think that will give best position for Tailplanes.

 

Bottom of the area was then filled with casting resin, which was allowed to go off (10 mins) before filling up to surface level with Milliput.

 

After a night in the airing cupboard the area was sanded back, flush, with the aid of the T Bar and 400 Grit (and lots of water!).

 

48b427_ab7dba2a12d3450c9577720574589680~

 

And here with the fin and assembled rudder (partially sanded) dry-fitted to check clearances.

 

48b427_5d0d21923ddc4a88bcaa0bc7b2727575~

 

Gunze paint pot should give an idea of size!

 

48b427_794ebf0d0393462799f6394bd3f99f73~

 

And that trailing edge - now lovely and thin!

 

48b427_db98f51f5ab34e38b942e1dcfa2bd7d8~

 

More cleanup needed - and I needed to line the hinge area with thin styrene sheet - but it's progress - and I started only just over a week ago.

 

Was actually actually making more progress than I expected at this stage...

 

Iain

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Fin bonded in place - and panel lines/joints filled:

 

48b427_6464e2cbab2d4f2b87726ccfe2153dab~

 

48b427_49df4fb9d64c41bc8a5f57733e73d376~

 

And with rudder in place - all coming together quite well!

 

48b427_059cd88a11054c9b969bcaca67c79e96~

 

48b427_6c8ab5a5b63948748f90e2e269df04db~

 

Started looking at the fuselage sections - looks like I'll have to modify the front port side fuselage section where the side door attaches at the top, in order to allow the floor section to be slid in after assembly of the fuselage halves.

 

Nose section in place - a lot better since sanding and primer:

 

48b427_8199cac7b7314c09baadb7f5607bf9ce~

 

48b427_a1950fca372743ca85b0dba7d2de9111~

 

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Note the way the cockpit floor section slides onto support sections printed into the nose section - some really clever thinking by the designer:

 

48b427_d83870ebf3d245aaae6d8d9e31d3c2db~

 

And now planning how to attack the interior sections:

 

48b427_369e215e32424b859a84f00f89b4c146~

 

Iain

 

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And, going back to the tail...

 

"I love the smell of automotive primer in the evening, it's the smell of progress!"

 

Or, something like that...

 

Initial primer coat on the tail - wet sanded after drying with 800 grit wet and dry:

 

48b427_24fc39b2d0784596bc40b4236ae74195~

 

48b427_bd3c81da55f948cf9c20773f6ce55763~

 

48b427_3a1892550e764604ac30e8865c7226a0~

 

Continuing work on my modified tail section - removing further flaws/joints/panel lines - and the incorrectly shaped beacon failring at the top of the fin - to be replaced later.

 

In addition the hinge sections on the fin have been boxed in top and bottom, then filled with casting resin from behind, which was then cut/filed to the correct shape:

 

48b427_6abebe7b46d140c4bcb65ed5af183c6a~

 

48b427_d840f49e7d9f4a3682c4daf5f5acb9cd~

 

On the starboard side I hadn't quite got the surface shape right when I filled/sanded the cut out area - so a little more Milliput and sanding:

 

48b427_a67921e76052455595b1bb837f8e1396~

 

And with the rudder dry fitted again to ensure we're heading in the right direction:

 

48b427_0e489e59a2ab4fad9ca6be6a9cdb3f5a~

 

Also made a start on sanding/neatening the internal structure.

 

First I went through with a 10A Scalpel blade - removing and loose 'threads' of ABS - of which there were quite a few.

 

Then the flat areas at the top were given a light sanding, before painting all surfaces with MEK solvent, using a flat brush - as I've found this helps smooth the surface in areas that are hard to get at.

 

Looks rough at this stage - but it is an improvement.

 

48b427_ae3f244af0624b4aace43e6bce98f752~

 

The tail was then primed again and off to the airing cupboard to harden off.

 

Attention was moved to the plastic 'infill' sections on the front and rear port-side fuselage doors.

 

These are printed in with the main prints to act as supports during the print process and need to be removed.

 

This was achieved using a fresh 10A Scalpel blade - scoring along the surface about 1mm in from the frame edge - multiple passes and a little patience required here, it does take a while to cut all the way through!

 

After removal the cut edges where filed back to the frame edges and a quantity of MEK applied around the frames to consolidate the surface:

 

2311-17.jpg

 

48b427_22facbeeab1347f89cbbf424b630c199~

 

And port rear:

 

2311-24.jpg

 

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And both sections placed together - quite a size!

 

48b427_43489108bd674420ac3ba4eaa64e62b4~

 

Have fun!

 

Iain

 

 

 

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I mentioned earlier about using MEK to smooth the surface of the prints - this was a test I did earlier, flooding the area over and around the port rear door jump lights using a brush and allowing to try off.

 

This was also done to the recessed square section to the right of the lights.

 

Smooths the surface quite well - not perfect - but certainly a better start in hard to sand areas.

 

48b427_fd8a6329978c4f728df0d16c7ac4a48c~

 

At this stage all window edges have also been gone around with a brush loaded with MEK.

 

The fuselage sections have ledges printed in situ on which to bond the cargo bay floor - these have been dressed off with the T Bar and 280 grit wet and dry to ensure the floor has good, flat and aligned areas to bond to when fitted:

 

48b427_b1b7fa34203a43928133217ad6c14bf3~

 

Finished off yesterday evening looking at the interior section and formulating a plan of action for the next stages...

 

Internal sections aligned with the freshly removed forward door:

 

48b427_111ddaf7dd9c4ceda785702c04f3302f~

 

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48b427_2e84733843ef4b3aa3b1ea40d56b6e89~

 

Blue skies!

 

Iain

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Bringing the thread up to date as of this morning - fresh out of the paint oven airing cupboard overnight:

 

48b427_e3b338f238154363afc940172ce18150~

 

Surface finish is definitely getting there...

 

48b427_070bbbbcd4fc4493bfb8e6db4856a587~

 

And the interior structure - huge improvement on where it started - but a *lot* of detail sanding to go.

 

48b427_7742bb709c3c4c11bba34a125410be39~

 

48b427_ab716f40a1a54296872134761ce27cb5~

 

Off to make up some home-grown detail sanding sticks - may be back later...

 

Happy Sanding! 

 

Iain

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1 hour ago, JohnT said:

Glad you have escaped the moderation curse and are getting some “stick time” at the modelling desk. My comfy chair (you have Blackadder so I raise you Monty Python) is pulled up and sandwiches made ready for the journey along the way to a finished Andover. :popcorn:Operating kneeling undercarriage on the cards?:wicked:

 

 

 

Cheers John.  :)

 

I *might* include optional mainwheel leg/wheel assemblies that can be swapped - based on what Toshihiko has provided - but that's something to address waaaaay in the future!

 

1 hour ago, Richard E said:

Was that the bullet with your name written on it Iain :) ?

 

Another attention grabbing build to follow and learn from I think ......

 

Probably Richard - the one that also says 'take on something way out of you comfort zone', or 'look, another squirrel'...  :)

 

Hopefully it's of some interest over here - I'll keep posting updates as and when - but this will be a long-term project.

 

I'm currently on the scrounge for any detailed images of the upper tailplane to fuselage interface panels - given the high tail/dihedral it's and area that isn't too well covered - and I'll need the info to do the tailplanes!

 

On a similar vein - need images/details of the vortex generators on the upper surface of the tailplane, ahead of the elevators.

 

Any help *really* appreciated!!

 

Iain

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Hopefully it'll end up somewhere worthwhile!

 

Reason for posting here, as well as a British subject (last of the Avro's?), I'm sure there will be a few members of this parish that will have acquired the 1:72 and 1:48 versions - so any challenges/issues will be very similar.

 

Iain

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An Andover! Superb! One of Woodford's finest that I remember droning around over the school field in the 80s. 

 

I'd absolutely love one of these in 1/72! If only, Airfix ...

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Iain how the he ck did you manage to find a way of buying the model?

 

The website is almost impenetrable and I was seriously wondering if I have so much modelling in me that I need to fight to get near one.

 

And thinking about having a go if the price is right, in 72ths.

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Just now, perdu said:

Iain how the he ck did you manage to find a way of buying the model?

 

The website is almost impenetrable and I was seriously wondering if I have so much modelling in me that I need to fight to get near one.

 

And thinking about having a go if the price is right, in 72ths.

Look up Onmanmodel on eBay. I have 4 of his kits, the service and packaging is very good. 

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