question about Sky type S

[FAAFAN]

This is probably an overdone issue. What is the best, most accurate Sky out there? For perspective, I am interested in painting my Alan Wilson Gannet AEW3, 1997 time period.  I test painted some Humbrol and some Xtracolour today.  They seems SO green.  Internet photos of the aircraft appear more gray, or at least much more pale than the green that resulted from my tests. I used flat white as a base, hoping for a pale shade. I know photos wash outout over time, and the effects of the electronic media don't likely help....Suggestions? Thanks

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Xtracolor is a reputable brand and their Sky is accurate. That really is what it looks like in real life.

 

Old photos are even less reliable than the electronics in a 2000s Mercedes.

[PhantomBigStu]

Good ol Humbrol 90 is great as well, and as the above poster seems to be unable to self market sovereign hobbies have a great enamel sky type s and an extensive catalogue of other colours

[FAAFAN]

Thanks. I was leaning toward Humbrol 90. Also found a bottle of Model Master in the paint stash but it is very matte. 

[NAVY870]

My go to for RAN aircraft was the WEM version. Cant get it anymore sadly.

[e8n2]

2 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

My go to for RAN aircraft was the WEM version. Cant get it anymore sadly.

White Ensign Models paint is now Colourcoats, available in the UK from Sovereign Hobbies.  Hopefully there is a better distributor in Australia for their paints than the schmuck here in the states.

Later,

Dave

[NAVY870]

4 hours ago, e8n2 said:

White Ensign Models paint is now Colourcoats, available in the UK from Sovereign Hobbies.  Hopefully there is a better distributor in Australia for their paints than the schmuck here in the states.

Later,

Dave

Haven't seen the brand over here.

All I have access to is Humbrol, Tamiya and that Vallejo cat urine

 

Edit

Found them, should have looked harder 🙄

Edited June 6, 2020 by NAVY870

[72modeler]

7 hours ago, e8n2 said:

Hopefully there is a better distributor in Australia for their paints than the schmuck here in the states.

Roger that, Dave!

Mike

[Navy Bird]

9 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Roger that, Dave!

Mike

 

+2 !!!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[e8n2]

6 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

+2 !!!

 

Cheers,

Bill

You and Mike must have had dealings with him!

Later,

Dave

[Andrew Jones]

If you can get hold of it Humbrol 90 acrylic spray in the aerosol can is pretty good and gives a lovely smooth finish.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:37 AM, e8n2 said:

Hopefully there is a better distributor in Australia for their paints than the schmuck here in the states.

17 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Roger that, Dave!

Mike

1 hour ago, e8n2 said:

You and Mike must have had dealings with him!

Later,

Dave

From what Ive seen Jamie say, the poor guy had some serious health issues ? Jamie is trying to make arrangements with someone else to distribute here in the states. 

[72modeler]

7 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Jamie is trying to make arrangements with someone else to distribute here in the states. 

Dennis,

 

MMD in Carrollton, TX used to distribute a  lot of aftermarket kit makers and building/finishing materials suppliers back in the day, but I think they probably want a "cut" that's too large for smaller  firms and/or require a larger quantity of product than they can provide. Sure hope Jamie can get a better U.S. distributor, as I really, really, want to get some of his enamels for future projects. (Don't understand why acrylics and enamels can no loner be shipped via air freight- even if the bottles were put into a plastic vacuum-packed bag or container of some sort?) Of course, the pandemic has really screwed up shipping options and times all over the world.

Mike

 

(My supply of vintage Pactra, Floquil, Humbrol, and Modelmaster enamels can last just so long- even stored in my dark, cool "paint" cellar!) 

[Graham Boak]

I gather there was some problem with metallic paints that lead to tops blowing off and paint being distributed, increasing the risk of fire.  I don't quite understand why acrylics were included, but I guess they would be too difficult to distinguish.

[e8n2]

14 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I gather there was some problem with metallic paints that lead to tops blowing off and paint being distributed, increasing the risk of fire.  I don't quite understand why acrylics were included, but I guess they would be too difficult to distinguish.

No, you can blame Al Qeada for that one.  One of their people brought on some baggies with liquid and tried to use them to either set off an explosion or start a fire on the aircraft he was flying in at the time.  It was going to some east coast airport, maybe JFK in New York or Logan in Boston. 

Later,

Dave

[e8n2]

22 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

From what Ive seen Jamie say, the poor guy had some serious health issues ? Jamie is trying to make arrangements with someone else to distribute here in the states. 

He last did a restock in March of 2018.  I did my first order with him in January of 2019.  It took a long time for my order to be processed and shipped.  His excuse at the time was that he was in the middle of moving house.  It took about a month or more to get my stuff.  In the meantime the naval colors have been depleted to nothing for the major colors required.  Now he has had health problems.  The blog entries that he had about things taking so long at the start of 2019 have been deleted so unless you went through it you would never know that it happened.  Then he comes up with the health issues a few months later.  Should be good to go in 2020 he says.  Nothing has changed.  It is far past time for a new US distributor.  All he is doing is moving sales of Colourcoats paint to other manufacturers.  I have bought paints from True North Paints, which had some problems of their own but seem to have them out now.  I have also tried some of the MRP paint which is ready to be airbrushed right out of the bottle.

Later,

Dave

[Graham Boak]

We can blame terrorists for the ban on fluids in the cabin, but they aren't generally banned from cargo carriage.  The examples of "bursting"" tins of silver were discussed at the time the ban was introduced and several modellers quoted examples from their own groundborne experience.

[gareth]

Just to chuck another colour into the mix, I quite like Mr Hobby 368 for Sky on my FAA builds. 

[e8n2]

21 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

We can blame terrorists for the ban on fluids in the cabin, but they aren't generally banned from cargo carriage.  The examples of "bursting"" tins of silver were discussed at the time the ban was introduced and several modellers quoted examples from their own groundborne experience.

Were there also bursting bottles?  If it was just because of the tins, then you would think that the answer would be to go to bottles like Model Master always had.  I really would like to know and am not just yanking somebody's chain. 

Later,

Dave

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

It's not really the containers, and it is legal to send them providing they are disclosed clearly and manifested, but that's where the costs come in. I could send you paint today but you wouldn't like the bill.

 

The container is relevant insomuch as that it's part of the packaging system but it's far from the only thing. They also need to be inside sealed plastic bags to contain leaks and the bag has to be cushioned and the cushioning has to be inside a double skinned box of some sorts.

 

The issue is whether or not any Dangerous Goods are being loaded on to an aircraft or indeed most road going vehicles or ships including:

1. Explosives

2. Flammable, non-flammable yet still pressurised or poisonous gas

3. Flammable liquids

4. Solids (flammable, self combusting or dangerous when wet)

5. Oxidising agents

6. Poisons or bioagents

7. Radioactive materials

8. Corrosives

9. Miscellaneous e.g dry ice or self inflating life rafts - anything that could make a major nuisance of itself should it "do its thing" which doesn't fall into one of the above.

 

The international transport community and regulating bodies really aren't interested in model paints, to put things into perspective, so lids popping off some 14ml tinlets did nothing to influence the policies and rules in place - if anything they made these organisations aware of their existence and to explicitly include the words "enamel paints" on prohibition or restricted lists. This is a redundant gesture and in no way implies that lacquer paints, for example, or styrene glues, are legal to send because they were always subject to Class III above anyway. If it's wet and it can burn it's a Flammable Liquid and was already subject to the legal measures in place.

 

This is a bit like mobile phone use being a sort-of redundant prohibition for drivers - traffic police already had the broad and comprehensive "Driving Without Due Care and Attention" which covered any sort of careless or distracted driving offence including playing with your phone - but making the mobile phone one explicit just makes that which arguably should have been obvious perfectly clear to those who need extra explanation. Those measures are somewhat relaxed for small containers like model paints, but that's from a very onerous starting point! Where it differs is that DWDCA needed professional opinion of being rubbish whereas phone use is binary. Modelling consumables which carry the flammable symbol are already binary. If the symbol is there on the label, there's nothing else to discuss - it's Dangerous Goods.

 

To be clear, it is legal to send it, providing the packaging is clearly marked to show what's inside and the packaging has been carried out by someone with a valid license to demonstrate that they are up to date with the requirements of sending Dangerous Goods.

[72modeler]

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies

Wow! Thanks for taking the time for the compehensive and informative reply, Jamie. I now have a much better understanding of the distributor's point of view and the expenses and constraints involved. Keeping fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that a better U.S. distributor can be found.

Mike

[Julien]

The problem with Dangerous goods is that the different modes of transport all have different rules. They each stem from the same set of UN Guidelines called the Orange Book, as its published with an Orange Cover! Flammable liquids are generally anything with a closed cup flashpoint over 60C. There are exceptions for certain things Alcohol being one.  However the rules for Air are the most stringent as any incident on an aircraft can have drastic consequences, There have been a couple of freighters lost which are heavily suspected to be due to Lithium Battery fires.

 

With any post even inland UK now aircraft are routinely used to move all mail, though strangely your air mail from Con Europe is as likely to cross the channel in truck as it is an aircraft. 

 

As Jamie quite rightly points out paint can be legally shipped as long as you are doing it by the rules and registered to do so as he is, there is though unfortunately a cost to this as there is with most rules. This is why I dont like seeing people who want to break the rules as its under cutting those who do, and placing extra risk into the supply chain. I have seen some horrendous breaches of the rules in my day job over the years. Que a container of mining equipment which had Blasting explosive, and a generator in it. Said Genny had is battery on board and full tank of fuel, all undeclared!

 

Julien

[e8n2]

20 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

To be clear, it is legal to send it, providing the packaging is clearly marked to show what's inside and the packaging has been carried out by someone with a valid license to demonstrate that they are up to date with the requirements of sending Dangerous Goods.

Just out of curiosity then, How do you ship paints to your overseas distributors?  Does it go by surface, or do you go through all the hoops and hurdles to send them by air?

Later,

Dave

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

2 hours ago, e8n2 said:

Just out of curiosity then, How do you ship paints to your overseas distributors?  Does it go by surface, or do you go through all the hoops and hurdles to send them by air?

Later,

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

It goes by air mail as it's the most fit-for-purpose option available. Going by sea is surprisingly difficult - nobody runs mail services by sea because it's slow. If you want to send something by sea you've got to hire a container. I did that once, for a car club wanting a load of parts from the US some 15 years ago and a 20ft container cost something like £4000 door to door by the time we rented the container, paid for the actual sea transport, then got surprised by the (because this was new to me!) cranage fees, HGV (i.e. semi truck to bring the container from dock to delivery address) fees, the expectation to have a forklift etc plus of course the duties payable plus handling fee for the duties.

 

Our entire stock wouldn't fill a container and you could probably spend £75,000 on product filling a container in which case the shipping proportion is quite attractive, but we haven't got the capacity for that and none of our distributors have that sort of working capital to sink into paint stocks, so, air mail it is. 

 

It costs circa £300 plus your destination country duties/taxes to air mail up to 10kg. Around £450 will get you 40kg or something around 2000 tins which is closer to what most distributors order at a time.

[Julien]

Problem now as well is that a lot of air mail went in Airliners which are now grounded. Mail has to compete with Air Freight at their rates, which are going up as there is not the supply.  Certain far east countries are not accepting Airmail to some European countries and the Japanese PO has increased Surface shipments. One manufacturer in Europe we know has had orders returned as they cant be shipped out of his country.