B-52 G / H nose contour

[MarcV]

Hi all,

 

Not sure this is the best forum to post this query but here goes.

 

I've got the HPH B-52H in (yes) 1/48 scale. I want to backdate this to the early silver SAC B-52H's without EVS, AN/ANR20 and the various lateral blade antennae on the nose.

 

It seems, although I'm far from sure that the B-52G's and H's with the various fit-outs above seem to have a different nose / front fuselage contour than the G's an H's without these modifications. So even if you take away the new protuberances the nose still seems to be different to the nose as fitted to the aircraft fitted with EVS etc.

 

Can anyone deny or confirm (if anyone can still follow the gist of this)? If yes this would mean an entire nose job which I don't much fancy.

 

Thanks all.

 

[exdraken]

hmmm I no specialist as of yet, sorry!

but glad there is someone having this monster kit around

do you have any pictures to share that support your theorie?

I guess you have this book?

https://www.dacoproducts.com/KDCB023.php

 

cheers,

Werner

[MarcV]

Hi Werner,

 

Thanks for your reply. I don't have the Daco book as it focuses more on later H models, not the earlier.

 

I'll move this post to my other post as the quesion does seem an extension of that posed earlier.

 

Thanks for that,

 

Marc.

 

 

 

 

[CT7567]

17 hours ago, MarcV said:

Hi all,

 

Not sure this is the best forum to post this query but here goes.

 

I've got the HPH B-52H in (yes) 1/48 scale. I want to backdate this to the early silver SAC B-52H's without EVS, AN/ANR20 and the various lateral blade antennae on the nose.

 

It seems, although I'm far from sure that the B-52G's and H's with the various fit-outs above seem to have a different nose / front fuselage contour than the G's an H's without these modifications. So even if you take away the new protuberances the nose still seems to be different to the nose as fitted to the aircraft fitted with EVS etc.

 

Can anyone deny or confirm (if anyone can still follow the gist of this)? If yes this would mean an entire nose job which I don't much fancy.

 

Thanks all.

 

If I'm following your question correctly, you're asking whether the B-52G and H nose contours were modified when some or all of the "warts" were added as part of the various avionics upgrades made in the 1970s?

 

Based on my references and studying various photos online, I'm confident the answer is no, but a bit of clarification is in order:  the nose contours of the G/H *are* different from the A-F "tall tail" models. 

 

On the early types, the line of the forward windscreen continues straight down, curving downward at the tip of the nose then curving back to the "chin" area.  On the G & H model, the radome is slightly larger and the extended length is noticeable by a slight kink in the profile, changing angle at the base of the windscreen.  The rest of the shape is otherwise very similar to the earlier versions, but the "chin" area is slightly deeper and the contours differ to accomodate the aforementioned radome enlargement.

 

From the time they entered service starting in the late 50s (G)/early 60s (H) up to the mid-70s the G and H radomes remained "as built."  The Electro-optical Viewing System (EVS) was the first major update to the fleet, adding the two large bulges to the lower chin radome.  Photos of this configuration are relatively rare as the additional ECM and OAS upgrades with additional bulged antennae were added soon thereafter, but the "EVS only" updated airframes have the same upper nose contour as the original G/H versions.

 

B-52A - F nose contours:

 

B-52G/H nose "as built":

 

Post-upgrade B-52G/H nose configuration:

[MarcV]

Thanks for taking the time to answer CT7. However if I compare your second and third photo it seems to me the third picture shows a radome which is a lot more angled. 

 

See the picture below from the Aerofax book also. I hope you're right by the way otherwise it means major rework.

 

Marc.

 

Let me know if the link doesn't work - for some reason I can't paste a JPG (or find how).

 

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOXHA0KAwM0NbsLhDp9P7EX06rbqajmfiTjFSJt

[gingerbob]

Your link wants me to log in to a Google account, which I probably could, but I didn't feel like cooperating.  I agree that the last shot looks "flatter" (more horizontal) on top of the nose, but I know very little about B-52s.

[CT7567]

7 hours ago, MarcV said:

Thanks for taking the time to answer CT7. However if I compare your second and third photo it seems to me the third picture shows a radome which is a lot more angled. 

 

See the picture below from the Aerofax book also. I hope you're right by the way otherwise it means major rework.

 

Marc.

 

Let me know if the link doesn't work - for some reason I can't paste a JPG (or find how).

 

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOXHA0KAwM0NbsLhDp9P7EX06rbqajmfiTjFSJt

Unfortunately the early G/H photo I posted isn't the best clear angle to show the "kink" clearly.  This isn't as clear a picture but illustrates the point better:

 

You also just have to think about it logically: there was no change made to the internal radar itself when the EVS and ECM updates happened, so why revise the cover? If they enlarged the radome in some way, why make all the ECM antennae external blisters?

 

Couldn't see your image post. Don't know how your interface may differ, but on mine there's a big button just below the text box labeled "Insert Image from URL." As long as you have a direct image link (vs page or frames), and rights to use said image per forum guidelines, easy-peasy.

[J.C. Bahr]

I think there is a definite early G/H radome option... because if you compare the 2nd and 3rd photo... look where the back lower radome line is... in the 2nd photo, it lines up with the rear vertical cockpit frame (like the earlier models)... but in the 3rd photo, it lines up with the front vertical frame (but there is a panel line still below the rear frame though).  Also, the top of the nose angles down more in the 2nd photo, than the 3rd, but not nearly as much as the 1st photo.

[MarcV]

17 hours ago, J.C. Bahr said:

I think there is a definite early G/H radome option... because if you compare the 2nd and 3rd photo... look where the back lower radome line is... in the 2nd photo, it lines up with the rear vertical cockpit frame (like the earlier models)... but in the 3rd photo, it lines up with the front vertical frame (but there is a panel line still below the rear frame though).  Also, the top of the nose angles down more in the 2nd photo, than the 3rd, but not nearly as much as the 1st photo.

There is a definite difference. I'm trying to contact Boeing to see if they can help with plans or anything but caný even find an E-mail address.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how to source the exact differences?

[71chally]

This is purely from the dark recesses of my mind, but I seem to recall reading an IPMS article on a B-52G kit which mentioned that there was a radome shape change.  And, I thought that I had read that there was a radar change in the late 70s?  But could be wrong on that one.

Looking at Google images I can definitely see a change, the latter type seems more flat across the top and possibly longer and pointier, while maintaining that bottom upward sweep..

 

I don't always trust art profiles, but these seem quite well researched and executed, note 59-2569 and 58-0251 (click on profile to enlarge)

https://www.markstyling.com/b52s5.htm

 

 

PS, I think Modelcollect did an early and late G, might be worth seeing if they changed the radome shape.

Edited June 11, 2020 by 71chally

[Winnie]

I have the early G, but I'm not at my kit until Monday afternoon. I can take a picture of it and post if anyone wants.

[MarcV]

On 6/11/2020 at 9:13 PM, 71chally said:

This is purely from the dark recesses of my mind, but I seem to recall reading an IPMS article on a B-52G kit which mentioned that there was a radome shape change.  And, I thought that I had read that there was a radar change in the late 70s?  But could be wrong on that one.

Looking at Google images I can definitely see a change, the latter type seems more flat across the top and possibly longer and pointier, while maintaining that bottom upward sweep..

 

I don't always trust art profiles, but these seem quite well researched and executed, note 59-2569 and 58-0251 (click on profile to enlarge)

https://www.markstyling.com/b52s5.htm

 

 

PS, I think Modelcollect did an early and late G, might be worth seeing if they changed the radome shape.

Thanks Chally,

 

Those are very useful and seem to indicate that not the EVS but ALQ-117 housings are responsible for the change.

[CT7567]

On 6/10/2020 at 7:08 PM, J.C. Bahr said:

I think there is a definite early G/H radome option... because if you compare the 2nd and 3rd photo... look where the back lower radome line is... in the 2nd photo, it lines up with the rear vertical cockpit frame (like the earlier models)... but in the 3rd photo, it lines up with the front vertical frame (but there is a panel line still below the rear frame though).  Also, the top of the nose angles down more in the 2nd photo, than the 3rd, but not nearly as much as the 1st photo.

Those photos aren't taken from the same angle so it's not possible to accurately extrapolate contours for direct comparison.  I'm digging through my references to try to find a good profile view of early and/or pre-OAS nose for comparison.

 

Also note, there's no doubt that the actual radomes were modified (including at least one change in "panel line" location) as part of the EVS refit. The question really being asked is whether the *contours* of the nose changed, particularly the forward-most portion, as part of the OAS upgrade.

[CT7567]

On 6/11/2020 at 4:13 PM, 71chally said:

PS, I think Modelcollect did an early and late G, might be worth seeing if they changed the radome shape.

I don't believe any of the 1/72 kits released to date have truly accurate nose contours, with two exceptions:

 

1) Monogram's D (and derivative NB-52B) are correct for the A-F model "original" nose

 

2) AMT's "Early B-52G" presents a pre-EVS G-model nose (H of same era identical).

 

AMT's late G and H kits make a mess of the OAS blisters and the add-on EVS parts, and the underlying nose contours are off (especially the upper portion)

 

I've yet to see any of the Modelcollect kits in person, but it's been clear from photos that the late G and H models were far from accurate.  To date I haven't seen any photos of the early G/H kits to confirm if their shapes are any better, but considering how far off they were on the late models (even with the "corrected" version) I'm not holding my breath.

[MarcV]

18 minutes ago, CT7567 said:

Those photos aren't taken from the same angle so it's not possible to accurately extrapolate contours for direct comparison.  I'm digging through my references to try to find a good profile view of early and/or pre-OAS nose for comparison.

 

Also note, there's no doubt that the actual radomes were modified (including at least one change in "panel line" location) as part of the EVS refit. The question really being asked is whether the *contours* of the nose changed, particularly the forward-most portion, as part of the OAS upgrade.

Hi CT7,

 

I look forward to hearing anything your research might find. 

 

Marc.

[Winnie]

The MC nose, I have no idea if correct or not. I'm awaiting my upgrade set with corrected nose, paid for them just before Covid hit the fan, but haven't seen not heard jack since... Oh well, hope to get it soon. I got this version because of the weapons included...

 

 

I hope this helps. Unfortunately I want SIOP camo and EVS etc, so I need the other nose...

 

Cheers

Harald

[MarcV]

Thanks Harald,

 

I hope the new nose turns out allright.

[Winnie]

The new nose is the one with modern radar and EVS. Looks ok enough to me. I wish I had the guts to pull of the HPH though... Been considering getting the cockpit in 32nd...

[MarcV]

10 hours ago, Winnie said:

The new nose is the one with modern radar and EVS. Looks ok enough to me. I wish I had the guts to pull of the HPH though... Been considering getting the cockpit in 32nd...

Yeah, I'm pretty intimidated by the HPH kit myself. The detail though is incredible. I'll be appoaching it as several mini projects - gear, cockpit, etc.

 

The reason I'm asking all the nosey questions is because I want to back date to the white / NMF SAC scheme, so pre-EVS, which seems to have a different nose profile. Views vary however if this is the case or not.

 

Marc.