Percival Proctor Mk. III - Dora Wings 1/72

[Beard]

I'll tag along, if that's okay, I've had my eye on the Dora Wings Proctor for a while.

[The Spadgent]

Strangeness and charm. 🙌 I’ll pull up a cushion and a mug of tea.  Nice start Mr B.

 

Johnny

[CedB]

3 hours ago, bbudde said:

Ah, not as big as he Catalina.

True ben, thankfully!  

 

3 hours ago, John Aero said:

This is the RAF Museums hidden Proctor in store. The interior was originally all Interior Green but I understand that the horrid Blue upholstery was a remnant of it's later civil life. Remember most Proctors served as Radio trainers and non of these survive in their original fit when they reached civilian hands post-war.

 

John

 

 

 

Thanks John - a very timely photo too as I start to pull the i/p together  

Here's one of the photos Steve posted of their Proctor:

 

 

Similar, with one straight and one 'looped' control stick (I wonder why?) 

Yours shows the position of the compass nicely, another doubt elsewhere.

Note though that Steve's has the red splodge on the left of the shelf (no idea) if you can see it under the accursed 'Proudly hosted' nonsense.

There's some variation in the instruments too - the kit PE looks like Steve's with the missing panel on the right like your photo.

All black though - good news!

 

 

Thanks Giorgio, Dennis, galgos, John (1/32 build one day), Simon and Johnny  

 

 

 

I can always tell if I'm enjoying a kit if I 'get an itch' in the evening.

Tonight's was scratched a bit with more on the i/p.

It's an unusual setup with the cowling as a separate bit, shown top here:

 

 

Then the panel with transfer applied, PE dash, PE shelf (with red splodge fitted) and throttle lever support.

On the PE sheet you can see (ahem) the levers, parts 11, 12 and 13.

More tiny stuff. Rats.

 

The PE is very nice. The 'gates' are very thin so cutting with a blade is easy and leaves no nubs!

 

 

One day all PE will be this way…

 

I have learned from experience that trying to glue tiny levers onto flat plastic is impossible.

Well, actually, keeping them there is impossible.

My answer is to cut some slots in the plastic to represent the real slots:

 

 

Sadly, hard to cut and harder to photograph!

 

I'll leave things like this for tonight:

 

 

Wine will be had…

[CedB]

In a minute - still itching…

I thought "if I stick the levers on they'll be dry in the morning". Oh ha ha ha…

 

The first one was bent (yes, the mount is two-part):

 

 

I think this PE is scaled from the 1/48 kit. The levers are tiny - sorry tiny.

The other two are smaller so I cut one off and dipped it in Gator’s Thin. 

Of course I dropped it.

Can you see it?

 

 

Those squares with the thick lines are about 25mm.

Now?

 

 

There it is!

 

 

Oh, for goodness sake, I'm pointing right at it!

 

Needless to say when I picked it up with the tweezers it pinged off.

Oh good grief…

 

Fine wire was located and levers scratched:

 

 

For scale:

 

 

Any comments like "Oh no, he's left the mixture rich" or similar will be dealt with, severely.

I am likely to have an empty bottle to hand…

 

[Marklo]

You haven’t considered the proctuka by any chance  

 

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/bob/misc.htm

 

[keefr22]

30 minutes ago, CedB said:

"Oh no, he's left the mixture rich"

 

I thought you had it in cut off....

 

ducking, weaving, running (not very quickly....)

 

K

[keefr22]

10 minutes ago, Marklo said:

You haven’t considered the proctuka by any chance  

 

That's a new one on me - and I always thought the real Ju-87 was ugly...!!

 

K

[Marklo]

9 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

That's a new one on me - and I always thought the real Ju-87 was ugly

I think the prototype and the A model was actually pretty good looking ( I’ve now built two) but then again I like the Blackburn dart.

[giemme]

10 hours ago, CedB said:

Fine wire was located and levers scratched:

Well, that's some smart modelling, KUDOS  

 

Ciao

[woody37]

Them tiny bits would be filling my swear box up rather fast! Happy to this out and watch as you are in control of matters...well apart from tracking those small bits on your cutting pad! Quite fancy doing one in 48 scale though

[Marklo]

I wouldn’t have the patience for the tiny bits, even in 1/48 I try to avoid them.

[CedB]

10 hours ago, Marklo said:

You haven’t considered the proctuka by any chance  

 

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/bob/misc.htm

 

Thanks Mark  Oooer! The things they do for films eh?

 

10 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

I thought you had it in cut off....

 

ducking, weaving, running (not very quickly....)

 

K

 Thanks Keith

\

10 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

That's a new one on me - and I always thought the real Ju-87 was ugly...!!

 

K

22 minutes ago, Marklo said:

I think the prototype and the A model was actually pretty good looking ( I’ve now built two) but then again I like the Blackburn dart.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - get it out with Optrex  

 

22 minutes ago, giemme said:

Well, that's some smart modelling, KUDOS  

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio - means a lot coming from you, you super-detailer!  

 

5 minutes ago, woody37 said:

Them tiny bits would be filling my swear box up rather fast! Happy to this out and watch as you are in control of matters...well apart from tracking those small bits on your cutting pad! Quite fancy doing one in 48 scale though

Thanks Neil - I'm up to £65.05 at the moment. I can't quote the old joke about "Who gave you the 5p?" but those who know it can join me in a chuckle…

Judging by the build so far the 1/48 would be a joy; you could see those levers!  

 

Just now, Marklo said:

I wouldn’t have the patience for the tiny bits, even in 1/48 I try to avoid them.

Wise man Mark, wise man… who's going to see them on the ceiling?  

 

 

 

More madness this morning. Knobs added to levers with Kristal Klear:

 

 

I bet they fall off when I try to paint them  

 

The i/p, shelf and coaming have been assembled and are drying out of the way, resting on a Humbrol acrylic pot:

 

 

Next step - wings.

The gates for the parts are a bit unusual - they are sort of under the part. I found that chopping them off like this:

 

 

…was much better and only left a small vestige to remove:

 

 

There was a tiny amount of flash on one wing; inside the aileron slot and also closing off these pin holes:

 

 

The locating pins (one shown here, the other in the inboard corner of the aileron slot) also hold the parts apart a bit:

 

 

…but nothing that can't be cured with generous application of TET and a good squeeze.

 

That said the wings are gorgeous:

 

 

Nice thin trailing edges and no seams that I can see.

I need to cut out the landing light next.

[Brandy]

Less than a day late and you're already nearing Page 3! Still, I made it - better late than never!

I'm guessing that the "red blob", since it is red, is probably a fuel selector valve. It's not trim as that can be seen on the centre of the floor (similar, but silver).

 

Ian

[John Aero]

The reason for the 'unusual' gates (post 37) is that if you take a gate straight onto a thin edged part the plastic flow is restricted by the narrow weak  gate and the gate cools quickly leading to short shots. By feeding with an under cut you get a better flow through what is a greater surface area. You are correct in your cutting technique, this way the part doesn't tear a chunk out of the tip.

 

The Red splodge is a fuel selector (Proctor IV) and the thin RH stick is a conversion to dual control The dark green upholstery is correct.

 

John

[CedB]

1 hour ago, limeypilot said:

Less than a day late and you're already nearing Page 3! Still, I made it - better late than never!

I'm guessing that the "red blob", since it is red, is probably a fuel selector valve. It's not trim as that can be seen on the centre of the floor (similar, but silver).

 

Ian

Welcome Ian and thanks  

 

26 minutes ago, John Aero said:

The reason for the 'unusual' gates (post 37) is that if you take a gate straight onto a thin edged part the plastic flow is restricted by the narrow weak  gate and the gate cools quickly leading to short shots. By feeding with an under cut you get a better flow through what is a greater surface area. You are correct in your cutting technique, this way the part doesn't tear a chunk out of the tip.

 

The Red splodge is a fuel selector and the thin RH stick is a conversion to dual control The dark green upholstery is correct.

 

John

Thanks John  Really good to have you along to add to our knowledge - much appreciated.

 

 

Landing light sawn, chopped (the S-M fine chisel fits just right) and micro-filed:

 

 

You know how I like to show off my tools!

 

Now, the ailerons. I may have got them mixed up but this doesn't fit:

 

 

The hinges are nicely represented and fit in the 'half slots in the ailerons, but they're not quite square in the moulding:

 

 

Cutting them carefully using the aileron as a guide helped and they're on now, with the really nice PE filler caps:

 

 

Over the page and onto the interior.

 

[John Aero]

Pleasure Ced,

 

This is a shot of one page of the eight pages of my drawings for the Proctor 1 to III and Vega Gull  which were the basis of this kit, and I believe are the only accurate drawings to date of the early Proctors.

There are three types of tailwheel used on the Vega/Proctor family. all the former's/ bulkheads were drawn from Percival construction drawings and all dimensions and radi were converted from Imperial Fractional to Metric. The small scale reproduction hides much of the fine detail and there may be parallax in this copied and reduced drawing.

 

I was told that most of the Percival archive drawings were destroyed by Percival in a dispute with Huntings. A full set of Proctor production drawings were later found on micro fiche in Australia and these were the ones made available to me as well as the poor copies of the Exhibition shop drawings which came from the late Mike Eacock (Skybirds 86) who started his career at Percivals.

 

John

 

[Hamden]

 

Nice start Ced, looks to be nicely detailed OOB.

 

   Stay safe                 Roger

 

 

[perdu]

Everybody...

 

John that help for Ced and we who follow in his giant footsteps is superb, thanks.

 

I remember poking around in a very sad looking Proctor behind one of the hangars at Staverton forty years ago or more and thinking what a nice aeroplane it was inside, I hope that little lost soul found its way to preservation.

 

Leaving it unloved and not even locked seemed sacrilegious to me.

[John Aero]

I'm just taking a tea break from my Tilly saga on Chat in the garage for a short while.

 

I have collected info and colour notes on Light civil colour schemes for many years and I'm sure many others do too. There's a lot of written reference on military stuff but because it's so individual and diverse there is usually only the odd note appended to a photo or in the text in books such as A. J. Jacksons three volume Putnam's work,  British Civil Aircraft.  In fact back when most photos were monochrome, I have a correspondence from the great A.J in which he says,"we didn't take too much notice of colour in those days". People like E. J. Riding, a contemporary of A.J did, because he was a modeller. 

 

The Author John Buchan wrote "Memory hold the Door". Well the door is closing fast on the monochrome era, so if you have memories of old light civil stuff you have seen in the past and can remember the details I for one will be very interested to hear about it. If you have a photo and a recollection even better.

 

John

[CedB]

3 hours ago, John Aero said:

Pleasure Ced,

 

This is a shot of one page of the eight pages of my drawings for the Proctor 1 to III and Vega Gull  which were the basis of this kit, and I believe are the only accurate drawings to date of the early Proctors.

There are three types of tailwheel used on the Vega/Proctor family. all the former's were drawn from Percival construction drawings and al dimensions and radi were converted from Imperial Fractional to Metric. The small scale reproduction hides much of the fine detail and there may be parallax in this copied and reduced drawing.

 

I was told that most of the Percival archive drawings were destroyed by Percival in a dispute with Huntings. A full set of Proctor production drawings were later found on micro fiche in Australia and these were the ones made available to me as well as the poor copies of the Exhibition shop drawings which came from the late Mike Eacock (Skybirds 86) who started his career at Percivals.

 

John

 

[snip pic]

Excellent, thanks John  

It is a sad fact that we've lost so much information that would be a treasure trove to current modellers and it's great to see at least some of it surviving.

I guess some of it is due to the old records taking up valuable physical space and being 'culled' during 'efficiency drives'.

Other material, like the wonderful Bristol Aircraft Company records I was able to paw over in the Bristol Aerospace archive are bizarrely 'restricted' by product liability concerns.

 

2 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

Nice start Ced, looks to be nicely detailed OOB.

 

   Stay safe                 Roger

 

Thanks Roger, you too  

 

2 hours ago, perdu said:

Everybody...

 

John that help for Ced and we who follow in his giant footsteps is superb, thanks.

 

I remember poking around in a very sad looking Proctor behind one of the hangars at Staverton forty years ago or more and thinking what a nice aeroplane it was inside, I hope that little lost soul found its way to preservation.

 

Leaving it unloved and not even locked seemed sacrilegious to me.

Thanks Bill  

There is something about the Proctor isn't there? It just 'looks right'.

 

4 minutes ago, John Aero said:

I'm just taking a tea break from my Tilly saga in the garage for a short while.

 

I have collected info and colour notes on Light civil colour schemes for many years and I'm sure many others do too. There's a lot of written reference on military stuff but because it's so individual and diverse there is usually only the odd note appended to a photo or in the text in books such as A. J. Jacksons three volume Putnam's work,  British Civil Aircraft.  In fact back when most photos were monochrome, I have a correspondence from the great AJ in which he says,"we didn't take too much notice of colour in those days". People like E. J. Riding, a contemporary of AJ did, because he was a modeller. 

 

The Author John Buchan Wrote 'Memory hold the Door'. Well the door is closing fast on the monochrome era, so if you have memories of old light civil stuff you have seen in the past and can remember the details I for one will be very interested to here about it. If you have a photo and a recollection even better.

 

John

Nice idea John.

 

 

 

I've been fiddling with the internals prior to deciding what I need to paint before (sub) assembly.

Holes have been drilled in the bottom of the fuselage and floor as directed:

 

 

There's a problem though with the locating pins on the floor - they don't line up with the holes:

 

 

Future builders note. Unless you want to spend a few minutes moving the floor around and wondering what you're doing wrong, like I did  

 

The radios have been assembled:

 

 

…and their shelf prepared in the bulkhead:

 

 

All very nice so far.

[Whofan]

1 hour ago, CedB said:

 

There's a problem though with the locating pins on the floor - they don't line up with the holes:

 

There certainly is, Ced; you’ve got one of your clipper guides (looks like a number 2) in with the model parts.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I’m late to this party, but particularly interested, since this is a type that appears in my Dad’s log book...

...it’s not entirely clear whether Dad was himself going on sick leave & hitching a lift with a passing Squabbling Bleeder Davies (& doing the nav, so maybe not that sick...?), or whether they were ferrying someone else (but if the latter, why wait 15 days to “Return” in a Barracuda, even allowing for Xmas?).

 

Anyhow.  Nice Percivals.

[Martian]

22 hours ago, CedB said:

I am likely to have an empty bottle to hand…

 

I don't think anyone seriously thought that you were likely to have a full one to hand for any length of time.

 

On a more serious note, given the amount of lovely detail you are putting into this; it would be a shame to hide it from view by hanging the model from your ceiling.

 

Martian 👽

[Mattlow]

4 hours ago, Martian said:

it would be a shame to hide it from view by hanging the model from your ceiling.

 

I agree with Martian, this'll be the sort of subject to put in a small display case.

 

If the interior goes well, you could leave a door open to make it more easily seen. That's what I intend doing with one of my 1/48 ones..

 

Matt

[Murdo]

That is looking really nice so far!