StevieD Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 This must have been covered before but I was wondering about the red diagonal fuselage band on at least two of 303s Hurricanes in 1940. RF-J (V6665) and RF-A (P3120) Theory 1 – this was a squadron/section leader marking carried over from Poland. Theory 2 – This was an experimental ID marking requested by the British. (Think someone has documentation to back this up) If a non -specific order was given to put a red band around the fuselage I suppose the ground crew would have carried it out in the same style as they had done in Poland. But bearing in mind the high-viz Luftwaffe yellow ID why choose red? Doesn’t stand out too well I’d have thought. And did this experiment lead to the sky band of December 1940? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Interesting question, but I suspect that at this stage the ground crew will have been predominantly RAF so such a marking will have been specified that way by higher authority. The principle of "as we did it before" still holds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 It was most probably to designate a flight leader's aircraft, hence why Kent's and Henneberg's mounts carried this marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieD Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 Ground crew on Polish squadrons were Polish as they all come across at the same time. Took then a while to adapt to English technical manuals etc but as far as I know 303s would have been Polish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I forgot to mention that I've also seen it postulated that RF-A possibly had the band in blue whilst RF-J had it in red to further differentiate between A and B flights. The photo of Urbanowicz standing in front of A at Northolt does seem to suggest blue far more than red when compared to the tonality of the red and blue in the fin flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Aereo Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 According to "Polish Fighter Colours 1939-1947 Vol.1" it was an instruction from No. 11 Group Signal S.230 of 16th September 1940 and it was trialled on the two aircraft to test how it would stand out as a marking for formation leaders. The results were reportedly positive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Aereo Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Smithy said: I forgot to mention that I've also seen it postulated that RF-A possibly had the band in blue whilst RF-J had it in red to further differentiate between A and B flights. The photo of Urbanowicz standing in front of A at Northolt does seem to suggest blue far more than red when compared to the tonality of the red and blue in the fin flash. Anything s possible, but the order I mentioned above specified a red colour for the band, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 hours ago, StevieD said: But bearing in mind the high-viz Luftwaffe yellow ID why choose red? Doesn’t stand out too well I’d have thought. And did this experiment lead to the sky band of December 1940? Because the Germans did not use red very much. One section (three aircraft) were painted with red diagonal stripes as part of trials to develop quick recognition markings. This is revealed in squadron correspondence. Ref 303s/5/6/Air. Date 18th September 1940. From Officer Commanding, No 303 (Polish) Squadron R.A.F. Station, NORTHOLT. To Officer Commanding R.A.F. Station, NORTHOLT. With reference to your NS/9/9/Air dated 16th September, 1940, enclosing copy of Headquarters No. 11 Group Signal S.230 dated 16th September 1940, giving instructions to paint a red band round the fuselage of our aircraft, this has now been done on one section, and stands out well. 2. The following points are made in respect of this policy:- (1) The enemy aircraft are painted many colours on top notably yellow, orange, black and white. (2) The enemy fighters have a better performance at above 20,0000 ft. there policy is to camouflage underneath, but when seen from above they are easy to recognise. (3) It would appear that our policy must be to remain camouflaged when seen from above, and be easy to recognise from below. P3120 flown by: 15/09/40 P/O Henneberg, F/O Januszewicz 17/09/40 F/O Januszewicz 18/09/40 F/O Urbanowicz 26/09/40 F/O Grzeszczak 30/09/40 Sgt Szaposznikow 01/10/40 Sgt Szaposznikow, V6665 flown by: 09/09/40 F/Lt Kent 11/09/40 Sgt Brzezowski 15/09/40 F/Lr Kent 17/09/40 F/Lr Kent 26/09/40 Sgt Andruszkow 27/09/40 Sgt Andruszkow The identity of the 3rd aircraft is not known. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Hi great thread 👍 Something i knew nothing about That is what i like about this site, i am forever learning 😀 cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 hours ago, 303sqn said: One section (three aircraft) were painted with red diagonal stripes as part of trials to develop quick recognition markings What's interesting if you look at the photo of P3120 with Urbanowicz I mention above, the band is noticeably a different colour than the red of the fin flash. I wonder if P3120 was one of those Gloster Hurricanes that were supposedly painted with their national insignia in the brighter pre-war colours. Thanks for the information of the signal regarding this order from 11 Group, great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrzeM Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 9:25 PM, Smithy said: I wonder if P3120 was one of those Gloster Hurricanes that were supposedly painted with their national insignia in the brighter pre-war colours. Yes, it was one of the Gloster produced first block. Very possible that the roundels were in pre-war shades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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