Record Breaking Hunter

[melvyn hiscock]

John, it is actually less scary than I thought. The update on the intakes may not be today as the chemo is not fun. Much better than it used to be by put I feel a tad strange

 

I could murder a G&T

Edited June 8, 2020 by melvyn hiscock

[JohnT]

Keep on in there Sir.  I have two friends who made a good recovery after chemo though its a real pain - literally.  The updates can wait.  Sorry I can’t send a G&T by post

[rob Lyttle]

On 07/06/2020 at 08:28, melvyn hiscock said:

blunt end of that Ventura looks good. Are you foiling that? I am also impressed with the sharpening of the pencil in the background so that you can write around corners!

Yes, sticky back self adhesive foil that builders use. I like using the process. 

The pencil is indeed a highly specialised bespoke tool, Melvyn! . 

Hand carved and chiselled for left-handers to follow panel lines through the Ali foil and re-establish surface detailing. 

Evolved over many sharpenings to the current state of high precision you see 😎

[melvyn hiscock]

8 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Yes, sticky back self adhesive foil that builders use. I like using the process. 

The pencil is indeed a highly specialised bespoke tool, Melvyn! . 

Hand carved and chiselled for left-handers to follow panel lines through the Ali foil and re-establish surface detailing. 

Evolved over many sharpenings to the current state of high precision you see 😎

LEFT HANDED PENCILS? THEY’Ll BE TAKING THE CREAM 0FF OF THE MILK NEXT.
 

if I can open up the pdf, I’ll sling you my description of pencils from the new guitar book

[melvyn hiscock]

15 hours ago, JohnT said:

Keep on in there Sir.  I have two friends who made a good recovery after chemo though its a real pain - literally.  The updates can wait.  Sorry I can’t send a G&T by post

Thanks John, it is what it is, I get no choice in this I just have to get on with. Unless something miraculous happens there is no recovery, only extension, but it is not impossible, not at the Rate research is being done on gene therapy.

 

the actual chemo is not too bad, I am on the morning after steroid wake up now and the tiredness will get me later. I did 36 hours straight sleep last time, and I had to fit that in between sleeping!

[melvyn hiscock]

51 minutes ago, melvyn hiscock said:

if I can open up the pdf, I’ll sling you my description of pencils from the new guitar book

I managed it, here is the description of a pencil from the new, and as yet not quite published version of ‘Make Your Own Electric Guitar’ coming soon to a Hawker Hunter- building scummer (not that I do that footbally stuff)

 

‘The nut slots can be lubricated, although they may not need it if cut correctly, but not with oil as this can work its way along the string windings and deaden the tone. One substance that is suitable and easily found is graphite dust. This is sold in convenient solid lengths which are encased in a small piece of wood, often with the letters HB on one end and the other end sharpened to a point. The graphite can be rubbed into the nut slots and will further help to prevent the strings sticking, especially for tremolos. An extra use for the graphite is that, in emergencies, it can be used for writing shopping lists and notes to that wonderful person who caught your eye in the front row of the gig.’

 

And the caption for the photo (yes, there really is a photo of a pencil, I believe the same make as yours, in a guitar making book just in case they are a new idea to some people)

 

‘One of a number of specialist graphite applicators I have. These are encased in wood to make them more durable and can be sharpened. They are excellent for keeping nuts lubricated.‘

 

[woody37]

Melvyn,

 

I just stopped by and was gripped by your wealth of stories and we’re only on page 2. Than you for sharing them and loving your attitude through this difficult time you’re having. Enjoying the modelling progress too!
 

cheers

neil

[gingerbob]

On 6/3/2020 at 6:47 AM, melvyn hiscock said:

anyhow, the size of the box for the Hunter made me wonder how people cope with the packaging on the HK Lancaster! Hey! , a free house with every model....

 

"HK box?"

"Arr."

"You were lucky!  There was five of us living in a Revell box- one of those end-opening ones, mind- on t'side o' the road."

 

I'm a little late to the party, but glad to stumble across this 'ere thread.  I'll have to go see what I've missed thus far.  You know, you probably can turn off "auto complete/(in)correct".  I really dislike all that "Here, let US do all the thinking for you" technology.  Well, almost all of it...

[melvyn hiscock]

On 6/7/2020 at 9:40 AM, DonH said:

Melvyn, a most interesting read again. You certainly have a talent for writing in an engaging way, have you thought about writing books?

 

i have two Revell Hunters in the stash, awaiting my careful attention/butchery and it is great to see some gotchas to avoid. The curve on the aileron is a good spot!

 

looking forward to the next episode.

21 hours ago, JohnT said:

Melvyn

 

several weeks ago I spotted a "spare" 1/32 Hunter in the stash and thought about doing this but took cold feet as when I looked at what was likely to be required I thought it was beyond my information resources, my modelling capabilities and generally I'd just mess up.  So its gone back in the stash.

Chaps
 

I have a bit more time to answer this properly now. It is NOT a conversion to be scared of I thought it would be, so, the story so far and the gotchas.

 

wings: the leading edge extensions actually do the job well when you cut them down, I had trouble hold them straight due to the state of my fingers and finding a drawing of the tip. The tip didn’t change until after the Mark 4 so you can shape the tip piece (which is one part, top and bottom and useful for lining up the cut down extensions. You can do it with much less filler and swearing than I did but the computer to print out a nice low, LOW, resolution drawing for me was downstairs and the stairs can be hard work, so I ‘winged’ (no pun intended)

Do NOT forget ‘John’s curve’ on the aileron 
 

Overall wing difficulty level, about as hard as low backing a high back spit in 1/72

Fuselage, some of this is still to come but the ‘difficult’ bit of the under intake was easy, I could have done it better Had I spent more time but it just seemed to race along and I think I had finished it before I realise that I wasn’t scared of it anymore!

 

comparison  level, opening up a spit wing and doing a cannon, not even a resin and etch one, just a hole with some stuff in it
 

the tail pipe simplified, without the waffle which I, at least, find amusing,

 

tail pipe with inside moulded fan. After you have possibly cut if to length, see below, thin the edge of this to more of an angle all the way round. So the inside remains straight and the outer is chamfered to thin it on the outside. Take a piece of tube, the thinner walled the better but will give you a small gap on the inside between the tubes, which will slip over this. I used a slice from one of the big drop tanks but still has to widen the diameter a little with some 20thou plastic card ( a bit either side might have been better. This slides over the jet pipe, it was a Just a bit thicker walled than I wanted, but there was a little space between them, and it butts against the rib that Is meant to support the pipe nearest the exit on the internal bracket that holds the jet pipe, but you are about to lose the internal bracket So that doesn’t matter. Don’t cut the jet pipe or the outer to length yet.
 

Gle the end of the fuselage and then Mark it to be cut to length, i was worried About getting a v-shape at the bottom so I started cutting the angle from the bottom leaving  enough spare to sand the rest on my sanding beam. Cleaning up the insides removes the bracket yo don’t want, and you now install the jet pipe assembly a la Melv, from the outside

 

When you look at the side elevation you can see the pipe extends a little from the angle of the fuselage. This represents the adjustable bit the is something to do with the afterburner and is made in two bits and can be seen in the ‘Thunder and a Lightning’ and mine. So the concentric tubes were cut so they were about right, and the outer then being bevelled like the inner Jeep pipe mentioned In the above bit, with the bevel leaving full thickness on the outside, giving you, apparently more space between. Into this goes a short bit of curved 10 thou to represent the bits that move and which are the outer part of the bit you see in the side elevation. Between the ‘rather mote than I intended wordage here, and whatever I wrote when I did it, is STILL easier than it sounds and takes less time than reading the bolleaux!
 

I then knocked up a smaller ring and five bits of rod to hold it and Caroline, the esteem Mrs Hiscock thinks the new jet pipe I’d the best bit if the model 

 

Difficulty  factor: Not very. One awkward angle cut needed, start at the bottom as above, the jet pipe stuff is one bit of pipe but to length, two bits shortened and bevelled as needed and two small rectangles of ten thou measured, curved and glued in the gap and then all that glued onto the remaining bracket on the rear fuselage. You just to take care to keep that straight.

 

cockpit. 
 

easy, chop the spine at the Travel join to make it easy handle. Chop the bit of this that joins it to the bulkhead and cut this to the seat rider at the front, and not the back. Remember I was designing this as I went. A better way would have  been to use the canopy, which of course slopes at the rear end, to show the new height of the inside, drill a mini hole in the top of the seat back and glue in a short piece of rod to show you how much extra height you’ll need under the canopy at this point. The width will be obvious, then fill the gap the best way you know how and shape to taste.

 

nose cone

Much  MUCH pointier than you think, you could fill the nose cone with epoxy, as I did, be I’d not recommend using lead shot (unavailable because of closedown for but you might have some) as you WILL file through the plastic and most of the nose cone with disappear. You could then find yourself filing an epoxy/lead mix which is not nice, especially if you sand it. There are plenty of other cubby holes for lead, I jaws just stuck using a relatively lightweight and V expensive alloy.

 

difficulty level. Not much

 

so I hope that spurs you on, even just doing the wing work for an earlier version.

 

there is one more gotcha, and that’ll go up later today or tomorrow. 
 

and has anyone notice Tamiya gloss read is bluer than the Matt?

 

regrads to all and thanks to those saying nice things about my health 
 

melvyn

 

 

[DonH]

4 hours ago, melvyn hiscock said:

‘One of a number of specialist graphite applicators I have. These are encased in wood to make them more durable and can be sharpened. They are excellent for keeping nuts lubricated.‘

 

I totally agree. I have been using graphite to lubricate my nuts for years and can testify to its non-chafing properties.

[Biggles87]

Also late to the party.

It looks fantastic, ,I’m going back to the beginning to read it properly.

 

John

[AdrianMF]

Thanks for a really informative thread on the record Hunter and the back (and sides and front) stories around it.

 

Hope your treatment goes well.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[stevehnz]

I can forget this is a big scale build which I normally don't bother too much with but with your professionally inflicted affliction (funble fingers) you're excused.  I'm also a sucker for things Hunterish & odd jobs like this all the more so. Some old fashioned Hunter lore never goes astray. I'm liking the yarns too. Your Dad being a marine on Hawkins, he wouldn't have been engaged in hand loading those 7.5"s would he? They have always seemed like such an anachronism to me.

Steve.

[Markh-75]

Some cracking details on this build! I too am interested in real people and events; when i read i'm not into fiction at all, i'd rather read a bout real people and events, I have a book by Neville Duke in the loft (must get it down and read it - again), i also have a book called John Derry, about, John Derry, very good book, Managed to find it on 'the bay' at a very low price and i'd read it before when it was in my local library; Neville Duke was the next display to fly right after John and his copilot were killed at Farnborough. I have a die cast all black Hunter F6 on display in my room too, lovely aircraft.

Keep up the good work, and please take care. Mark.

[melvyn hiscock]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:59 AM, gingerbob said:

 

"HK box?"

"Arr."

"You were lucky!  There was five of us living in a Revell box- one of those end-opening ones, mind- on t'side o' the road."

Nuthun’

 

I lived in Airfix series one plastic bag WITHOUT THE HEADER!

[melvyn hiscock]

2 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Your Dad being a marine on Hawkins, he wouldn't have been engaged in hand loading those 7.5"s would he? They have always seemed like such an anachronism to me.

Steve.

Dad was keyboard sentry for the first period but being a marksman (badge on the arm and a shilling or so a day extra)  And if the US had had to withdraw, which got very close, he’d had been sent ashore as a sniper to cover the withdrawal, so I doubt he’d have survived. They were also one of the ships that went in close against orders, to bombard the onshore batteries. The came back to Portsmouth After 7 days (from memory) And restocked with a minimal crew as a depot ship off Arromanches For 17 weeks. He also remembered the tannoy announcement that if the navy didn’t stop shooting down so many allied aircraft then air cover would be withdrawn. That’s one you don’t see in the histories!

Edited June 10, 2020 by melvyn hiscock

[jaw]

Melvyn,,

 

I have just come across your wonderful post about that modelling that lovely red Hunter at Tangmere - you are making a superb job of that and I look forward to the day when you can bring it along to Tangmere (when we are open again) so that we can admire it and it can sit beside the real thing.  It was a real pleasure to meet you and the beautiful Mrs H at the museum and talk to you about Hunters. I had to smile at your reference to John's curves ( I won't live that one down if my colleagues at Tangmere ever find out!). Unfortunately the new Airfix Hunter has does not have John's curves but it is an easy mistake to remedy. The kit has other errors as well but happily Ali at Aerocraft Models has done a series of modifications for it and the Hunter F5.

 

Take care.

 

John

[melvyn hiscock]

Melvyn,,

 

I have just come across your wonderful post about that modelling that lovely red Hunter at Tangmere - you are making a superb job of that and I look forward to the day when you can bring it along to Tangmere (when we are open again) so that we can admire it and it can sit beside the real thing. 
 

That will be a real pleasure 

 

It was a real pleasure to meet you and the beautiful Mrs H at the museum and talk to you about Hunters.
 

Her Facebook profile pic is sitting in the F4 cockpit

 

I had to smile at your reference to John's curves ( I won't live that one down if my colleagues at Tangmere ever find out!).

 

oh, they will........

2 hours ago, jaw said:

 

Take care.

 

John

And as for Airfix, they will be told.....

[melvyn hiscock]

So here we go in the big gotcha. I sincerely hope Herr Revell doesn’t mind

me including his instructions in here but I am not the first to come across this gotcha and they may help.

 

the fist bit is easy 

 

 

I’d advise painting the fan, if you believe anyone will see it, first and then the parts 30 and 31 as tiger are easier to get to.
 

this is where it gets fiddly. Not, there are no locating lugs on 28 and 29. The knobbly bits  in the end are spacers to hold them off the fuselage sides, I think. I never found locating holes. So, it is all butt joins and don’t we all love a butt join. Note, the bits 28 and 29 go outside the lugs on 25. 
 

at this stage really stupid people glue on part 26. Do not. Do not even think of it. Do not even have glue up in the same room. Place it all together, tape it up and walk away for an early cider and let it all set in place. Then have another cider until you could you glue it if you tried.

 

 

once it has set take off the remarkably unglued piece 26 and paint the insides of it,  Parts 25, 28 and and since you carefully noted where you will be gluing in that cider haze, everything will be perfect.

 

yeah, of course it will. This up is where you need a third arm and hand. 

 

 

now for a post chemo (cider) sleep (I has another Two hours fighting Nat West Bank today so need a kip), so back in about and hour .

[melvyn hiscock]

Ok, so it was a bit more than an hour but six hours on the phone and the net over two days, four years in to trying to get the same or problem fixed is enough to try anyone’s powers of cider avoidance. Plus 50 hours of chemo is a bit wearing...

 

anyway back now, sore back, can’t sleep, might as well bore you lot.

now, if you look closely at the diagram at the end of the pre-cider break above it says ‘gotcha’ all over it.

 

do NOT glue it all together. Glue only around the fan. Tape the rest but tape it just inside the edge.

 

The general idea here is to fiddle this in place.

 

so, grab hold of the nose with one hand, open up the now untaped ends of the intakes with one of your other hands (I did warn you that you’d need three) and wiggle and slide them into place. They will magically stay in position whilst you reach across to get the rear fuselage and the wings, and enjoy this parts as, if you get it right you will win the lottery as well.

 

 

in one swift move, whilst the intakes magically stay in their slots, you slide the rear fuselage onto its alignment lumps, hold this in place, and then deftly open up the intake in the wing, leading edge, slide that over the inner intakes without bumping them out of their slot, carefully aligning the back of the intake into its slot whilst not moving the rear fuselage that is only gently held on its alignment points in the front fuselage, and so the same on the other wing, making sure the intake lips all line up and there are go gaps as using one of those hands you’ve magically grown whilst all this goes in. Check the alignment  fuselage and front fuselage and marvel at how they had looked so well engineered when you first dry fitted them without the wings now need so much filler and how all the little leading edge bits of intake have all popped out of the holes.

 

swear

 

go and sacrifice a goat and try again.

 

still no good?

 

mmm, not was mine. 
 

and, yes, it tried tape, and clamps and just about everything I have ever learned.

 

for the guitarists among you you are looking at a (boasting) bloke that has completely rewired a Gibson 335 in 25 minutes, old stuff out, new stuff in.
 

so, the Hunter. There is a cheat. Start by gluing the wings into the fuselage.

 

 

 

In this terribly bad photo taken through the haze of burning goat smoke, you can just see the red where up I have painted the insides of the intakes. Yep, they there glued in there, tightly so the leading edge of the internal (infernal), bit is right up against the inside of the lip on the wing where it should be. 
 

this will not now fit on the fuselage as the recesses in the side of the front fuselage need yo to be able to spring these into the hole and you have just unspringinessed it. 
 

no matter, it probably already looks better than it would have done if you’d tried it properly and who needs a lottery win? Or, to be honest, a goat.

 

So Hiscock’s cunning plan.

this is all I had to cut from the fuselage to get enough wiggle room to fit it all in place and remember me telling you about that bit with two lugs that sits against the fuselage, and is basically some form of splitter (remember I don’t normally do jets), well it is an easy job to get some filler i there and make it good.
 

 

Strangling the little git for being so difficult, Er....... I mean holding everything in place to make sure the fuselage join actually joined.

 

and finding that the lovely Mrs Hiscock Has borrowed my 3/4 in masking tape and having to use her 2 in stuff

 

 

 

you can see there was a little filler used around the front to fuselage join, but to honest that was probably tiredness. The scruffiness emerging from the intake is masking ready for....... primer!
 

Meanwhile, the nose gear panel was on and sanded in and the nose cone glued on.

 

I may have used this pic before but I did get a bit more Alnico 5 into the nose 

 

 

 

And holding the nose up to the light showed how little plastic was left.

Now, here is where I nearly got got by another gotcha. I presume that structural differences btweeen the prototype in its original form, and for the record breaking would be minimal. The rear view option for the seat was found by moving in piece back to an existing fuselage frame and all I did was the opposite. At the back, the shorter tailpipe position of the prototype can be seen as a panel line on the F5

 

 

 

mmmm. Funny, doesn’t quite look right in the photos but measured out fine. 
 

this also gives a chance to show a picture  of  ‘John the curve’ the man whose simple, and correct, observation of a small piece of aileron should change  all Hunter kits!

 

meanwhile, down at the sharp end 

 

 

I assumed, how foolish, that the change on nose contour would come from the frame behind the nose, to leave the engineering of the nose bay untouched. This is the base at the nose gear but the frame right in front if the cockpit and the one half way down, by the nose wheel pivot have to have been amended too, as without, the top contour does not work. I *should* have taken a contour from this photo but I assumed and the ‘DFA’ rule applies, that is ‘don’t flip pin’ assume’.

 

I attacked with the file again, and think I just about made it, but it was a good warning and the plastic On the nose of mine is very thin place. I have thought about injecting in some resin to back it up but you never know where that stuff will go.

 

so, enough for this morning. Upper fuselage intakes and possibly some plastic moulding!

[melvyn hiscock]

The thing these ‘unters is that the have all sorts of ‘oles and indentations in them. There are even replacement bit’s already for the Airfix one and that ain’t ‘anging abaht in getting it aht to the old ‘illman ‘unters, izzit?

 

a translation for people that have never seen ‘Eastenders’, lived in Sarf East Lahndahn, or who not not be from a England.

 

Hawker Hunters have a variety of differering holes and indentations in them descending on their Mark and type of engine. There are even replacement correctional bits for the new Airfix Mark 4 (Excluding the missing John’s curves) and they have managed to release those to the ‘Hillman Hunters‘ = Punters = Customers, basically before the ink on the boxes is dry.
 

the mk3 was, obviously, designed to be a bit quick, and so was very smooth with the minimum of lumps and bumps so some external louvred and stuff got left off. However there are still two very obvious bits on the rear fuselage that I felt I couldn’t ignore. 
 

 

from this photo snaffled  from the museum,we get a good view of the extended forward canopy, which I am still thinking about, and the indentations on the rear which quite obvious, mine may not (May not? Ha!) be truly to scale but will be representative. That’s a good cop out isn’t it?

 

the above *may* show previous attempts!

 

 

I decided one was a hole, and the other one of those NACA intakes. To begin with I drilled a couple of holes, one each side, that wandered just enough to really annoy me so more filler came out. I then tried again. 0.03 pilot hole followed with a Brad pointed bit until i thought I was nearly through the plastic and I was left with a Holes clearly drilled by a brad point bit, complete with big hole In the centre which, for some strange reason I decided to fill with cocktail stick (wooden). This was awkward trim by I thought enough filler primer would work to cover it up.

 

 

 

First the Brad pointed holes, complete with big  hole in the centre.
 

and then filled up with cocktail stick. Putty would have been much easier
 

 

 

the intakes were stencils in plasticard to give me a fixed distance from the spine and held in place with double-sided tape. They were then grunged out with whatever tools that were at hand or mat work, craft knife blades, sharp blunt and broken, files and file ends, anything where I could get it to the point where filler primer might hide my sins.

so, not too far to go. I have the fiddly bits to paint and fit and have to decide how I am going to make the extended windshield which may be a bit of plunge moulding, I then have to decide which red it will be and paint it ready for decals, but i have to wait for those as no one is doing white numerals in 24in and 8in in white for 1/32 or for 36in and 12in for 1/48. The nice people at Fantasy Printshop are working on it but as I pointed out to him, I am a publisher and just have to design a page whereas he has to design the font at the same time.

 

There mat be some paintage over the weekend and the nice people at Portsmouth Model Shop are sensible distancing from us, and it depends if decide to put my gold top Les Paul back together. 
 

and I have work on the guitar book to do.

[melvyn hiscock]

Ah well, I just duped that bit. No no bother, I had a fun day trying to edit a little docu I put together from a friend via this iPad. What a waste of money this thing is. I spent close on ten hours trying to just chop a simple (but long) docu into three parts. By thE end of the first day I was ready to make Vilanelle into a sweet girl next door figure, then I tried some more. Not even an elephant can leave a pile as big as this iPad.
 

I did try some paint on the Hunter. I also discovered that X7, red is too blue, and XF7 is not as bad. It could do with being a ‘tad’ darker, but a few coats of Pledge should sort that out. 
 

the wonderful Caroline is just off to the local model shop....

Edited June 15, 2020 by melvyn hiscock
Duplication due to stupidity

[melvyn hiscock]

Current score:

 

Hawker Hunter F3 plunge moulded canopy.................................  3

Melvyn Charles Hiscock ............................................................... 0

Ciders/Gin and Tonics/ half decent red wine ................................3,924

 

just to cheer myself up, and really for the lovely lady, called Clare, who has been sending me videos of walks through Winchester as she is a tour guide and thought I might like it (is she kidding? they are REALLY good), I thought I’d pay her back a little with some semi-local history about a lady I got lucky enough to interview, about some other ladies in the same job as it was also for a Clare’s daughter Helen who, at 23, is the same age as some of these ladies, and who would appreciate the lurch in feminism, so excuse for me as there is no script, no fact checking (I know the Typhoon was not first to 400 mph), and there are some private jokes and mistakes in burbling but I thought you might like what keeps me amused when I’m all chemoed up.

 

damn, after all that I can’t link it. PM me if you want a look and we’ll try that way.

 

So, i decided to plunge mould the front bit of the canopy. Failed dismally at fist trying 40 thou card, a little bit better on second and third goes but there will need to be a new mould made. 
 

Other than that, XF7 is definitely not as mauve asX7 but is a little more like The Stearman Vemillion on the Rearwin I did (I’ll spare you another picture), so could use being a bit darker but I’m not going near a blue. I might just pledge it and rely on the pledge darkening it just enough.
 

now I may play my ‘54 clone gold top. Another guitar link but a truly great guitar 

 

 

 

[Biggles87]

I was at the Hunter meet at Greenham Common in 1976 and as I was about to take a photo of the WB188 replica I saw a movement out of the corner of my eye and looked to see Neville Duke who had stopped to wait for me to take the photo. With him was Bill Bedford and I persuaded them to stand either side of the aircraft for me to photograph. I used slide film in those days and they are all in boxes in the loft somewhere,  I must try to find them some day.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

John

 

 

 

 

[melvyn hiscock]

Thanks John, sadly I never met Bill Bedford,

 

Iv’e just been upstairs and I think I may have made a canopy that works and a bit of pledge onto raw XF7 is pretty close. More progress.

 

I’ll still have to wait for the white serials from Fantasy Printshop but with all the different sizes in lots of different scales not to mention the colours it may be a bit of a wait. He’s doing well though and it is a much-needed resource and huge thanks to him for taking them on.
 

at least I’ll get the roundels on soon.