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Terrible Heller 1/72 Bloch 174 moulding


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8 minutes ago, Clifton said:

@gingerbob Sorry if I came across a bit strong there.  I can see if you’ve found a good kit of theirs that you’d want to build it.  Or if it’s an unusual subject that no one else produces.  But the photos accompanying this post are exactly why I personally avoid their kits.  Some people probably enjoy the challenge of making them better, but I’m not very good at that sort of thing.  

Clifton,

 

On my experience, the majority of Heller kits are nothing like this. Furthermore, this is exactly the sort of thing I have seen in other kit manufacturers items of a similar vintage (Airfix, Revell, Monogram for instance).

 

To tar them all with the same brush seems a bit short sighted to me.

 

I do agree that the OP had a particularly poor example but it's in no way indicative of a manufacturer's entire product range.

 

I do also admit to being a fan of the classic period of Heller's output but this kit precedes what I consider to be that period.

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On 31/05/2020 at 10:02, Graham Boak said:

Mine dates back to 1973, and is in black plastic with much the same dips and dents, which I filled with Green Stuff in a session and then it stopped in mid-build awaiting a Falcon canopy which was never produced.  But Impossible to build?  Totally unacceptable?  What a load of, well, nonsense, to be polite.   One part session with the filler, another to smooth it, then carry on.  No, it was never going to be a 21st century kit with hundreds to tiny parts or superlative detail - but then it doesn't have deep trenches either. I did add a Darne machine gun from Aeroclub which is probably unobtainable now, and have Modelart transfers to replace the originals, which were never usable.  As for Heller kits being regularly distorted or covered in flash - well, the Cadet series maybe, but not the original Musee series which this belongs to nor their black box series from the 70s which were the finest 1/72 WW2 kits around.

 

It does have some problems in shape, which are probably not worth correcting for the effort involved except for specialists.   I agree that you would probably be better off with a newer Special Hobby kit if, and it is a moderately-sized if, SH get the shape right.  But it will probably be closer anyway.  However if it was announced some time ago and it hasn't appeared, then it probably won't.

RS Models have a range of Marcel Blochs available :- MB-151, MB-152 and MB-155.

Wulfman

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5 hours ago, Wez said:

Clifton,

 

On my experience, the majority of Heller kits are nothing like this. Furthermore, this is exactly the sort of thing I have seen in other kit manufacturers items of a similar vintage (Airfix, Revell, Monogram for instance).

 

To tar them all with the same brush seems a bit short sighted to me.

 

I do agree that the OP had a particularly poor example but it's in no way indicative of a manufacturer's entire product range.

 

I do also admit to being a fan of the classic period of Heller's output but this kit precedes what I consider to be that period.

I hear what you’re saying, @Wez. To me, the Heller kits I’ve seen all have problems similar to those shown by the OP, to the point where I’m honestly surprised they’re still in business.  I suspect that they might have sent lower-quality kits to the States, and sent better kits to Europe in general.  
 

I’m afraid I will have to disagree with you on the quality of Monogram kits produced during the 70s.  They had a fantastic run of kits, especially their 1/48 aircraft.  For the era, they were accurate, had decent detail, and best of all, were affordable to kids like me who saved up model money by throwing a paper route after school.

 

I'm glad you’ve found Heller products that you enjoy building.

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1 hour ago, Clifton said:

I’m afraid I will have to disagree with you on the quality of Monogram kits produced during the 70s.  They had a fantastic run of kits, especially their 1/48 aircraft.  For the era, they were accurate, had decent detail, and best of all, were affordable to kids like me who saved up model money by throwing a paper route after school.

I wasn't comparing this 1960's vintage Heller kit to a 1970's Monogram kit (of which I have several in the stash, love 'em), I'm comparing it to kits of a similar vintage by other manufacturers including Airfix, Revell and yes Monogram (amongst others).

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1 minute ago, Clifton said:

Gotcha!  I guess we’re spoiled with the way a lot of new kits are engineered these days, especially if they have photo-etch and resin parts!

You're right there, our Group Build maestro Enzo Matrix repeatedly says we're living in  golden age, I think he has a point.

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I have just inspected my early issue Bloch 174 and found it in near perfect condition , no lumps, bumps or pot holes !

I think that is true for all Heller kits of similar vintage , especially models of French aircraft. Obviously standards have slipped since then, including some duff kits :- Spitfire V, Stuka and P.40 come to mind.
As for Monogram, back in the day their kits were state of the art !

 

Wulfman

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Good, but my Bloch was also fairly early issue, and the Spitfire V, Stuka and P-40 (not to mention the Bf109F,G and initial K) were of much the same vintage.  Yet very soon afterwards came the Gladiator and He.112 and Arado 196.  It is fair to add that I have other Heller Musee series aircraft that don't show the same shrinkage - which is very easily fixed anyway.

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I took all the panel detail and rivets off partly because I couldnt have sanded round each detail and partly because each rivet was the scale size of a dinner plate. In 1/72 scale rivets would be minute less than a tenth of a millimeter.

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23 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

That's looking good! Well done for sticking with it. Deleting the rivets is no bad thing in 1/72.

There shouldn't really be any big rivets and panel gaps in 1/72. A gap of 5mm scales down to 0.069mm. A human hair averages 0.075mm in width.

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Rivets/  Panel gaps.  There weren't any on mine.  The panels were represented by fine raised lines.   Perhaps they were added to "improve" the kit at sometime.  Like the sunken "fabric effect" on Airfix's retool of the Hart to a Demon.

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3 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

  Like the sunken "fabric effect" on Airfix's retool of the Hart to a Demon.

Having spent far too much of my life grinding all that off and replacing it laboriously with more appropriate surface detailing, I occasionally issue forth a muffled curse of whoever inflicted it upon us

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Hang on.  Two days of filling and sanding?  You haven't even got sink marks where I did, on the wingtips and one aileron.  I reckon slapping on some filler in each hole, and fitting some plasticard to fill the control gaps - which again you don't seem to have done, would have cost at the very most an hour the first night, with the rubbing down and maybe a bit of refilling and polishing perhaps an hour and a half the second.   if there were some shrinkage of the putty then add 10 minutes for more putty and perhaps 20 mins after leaving it to harden.   So three hours total work at the outside.  I fail to understand why this rather nice (for the period) and well-fitting model is being demonised, for a small amount of work that was less than I put in on the recent Airfix Hurricane (or any of the previous three I made) or the as-yet unfinished Blenheim.  Not that the original Blenheim, of much the same period as the Bloch, took less time over its flaws, because it didn't.  Although that did include correcting shape errors which neither of us have done on the Bloch.

 

It is not 21st Century Tamiya.  It is not even 1970s Tamiya.  But it is nowhere near as bad as is being made out.

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Dun

13 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

It would take only a fairly light sanding to remove these, and as a representation for the time (or ever since!) they were a lot better than the deep gouges we've been plagued with for far too long.

What, the Airfix Demon wings? I've corrected them and it took a LOT of effort. A lot. 

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Well I didn't expect the picture I posted of my build (not even a quarter of the way through) to cause such a strong reply.

 

I did have to fill lots of holes, gaps and wobbly bits the fact you can't see them is because I used Gorilla superglue gel and set it with super glue accelerator. 

 

If my build causes you so much anguish get on with your builds and don't look at mine. Jeez I haven't even got the wings finished and attached yet.

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5 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

Dun

What, the Airfix Demon wings? I've corrected them and it took a LOT of effort. A lot. 

I have no idea of the problem you mention but I am sure you did a very good job to the best of your abilities.

 

I couldn't care if you stuck the kit together with sticky tape and wallpaper glue as long as you had a good time building it.

 

Snobbery and criticism doesn't belong here it should be kept for the cesspool of Facebook

 

 

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Work in progress:  My reference to the Demon's wings was part of a comment on efforts by manufacturers to "improve" a kit which actually made it worse.  (I've tried using Surfacer to bulk them out but unconvincingly.  I was wondering whether similar regrettable changes had been made to this kit but it seems not.

 

AltcarBob:  I don't see where snobbery comes in.  As for criticism having no part here - look at your title!  I'm pointing out that the kit and manufacturer do not deserve being given a bad name because of one person's exaggerated language.  If that's "snobbery and criticism", long may it reign on this site and elsewhere.

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You took it on yourself to sneer at how long it took me to correct some of the flaws on this kit. Oh you think it should have only taken a few minutes to correct a fault and three hours to complete the build.

 

That's the talk of a snob who thinks he's better than everyone else. I know I am not a very good modeller but I have improved my modelling in the seven months I have been doing it after a 35 year break. 

 

Stick a photo of your superb award winning model of this kit online and I will give you credit. Till then please keep your snooty opinions to yourself.

 

Ok boomer.

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