Terrible Heller 1/72 Bloch 174 moulding

[AltcarBoB]

I have become very keen on French WWII aircraft and recently ordered a Heller Bloch MB 174 light bomber kit in 1/72 scale. It arrived promptly but when I opened the sealed kit box I was shocked at the quality of the moulding. Virtually every part on the two sprues has sinkholes the surfaces are bumpier than a ploughed field. I always remember Heller kits as being a bit ropey for flash and bent parts but this is unbuildable I would end up with no surface detail and a model comprising 50% filler.

 

I know its a fairly old tooling but the transparencies are perfectly moulded so it looks like either Bertrand the machine minder was skiving off having a quick Vin Blanc and a Gauloise or the tooling is goosed. I dont know wether to send it back for a refund or a replacement with the chance that the whole batch is the same.

 

IMG_20200530_212431556 by Stuart, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200530_212608483 by Stuart, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200530_212526458 by Stuart, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200530_212503485 by Stuart, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200530_212455028 by Stuart, on Flickr

Edited May 30, 2020 by AltcarBoB
bad smelling

[sinnerboy]

oil canning 🙂

[Wez]

I think the original mould dates back to 1966 so it's in the prime of life!

 

Personally, I would send it back.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Wez

[AltcarBoB]

4 minutes ago, sinnerboy said:

oil canning 🙂

Only if the oil can had fallen off a lorry doing 70mph

[Doggy]

That's not fit for purpose.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, AltcarBoB said:

I know its a fairly old tooling but the transparencies are perfectly moulded so it looks like either Bertrand the machine minder was skiving off having a quick Vin Blanc and a Gauloise or the tooling is goosed. I dont know wether to send it back for a refund or a replacement with the chance that the whole batch is the same.

that's shrinkage.  Mould being run too fast,  or too hot plastic, shrinking when cooling, not how the dents are where the plastic is thickest,  but the actual tooling look OK.

IIRC @The Spadgent amd @hendie  have worked with injection moulding who maybe able to add more.

 

the other option is just buy an older issue, but keep the new decals sheet as the old ones were awful 

1 hour ago, AltcarBoB said:

I always remember Heller kits as being a bit ropey for flash and bent parts

I remember them as being decent, but I never had that many

[AltcarBoB]

6 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I remember them as being decent, but I never had that many

To be fair I didnt have that many either and I think the two major culprits were a helicopter kit in 1/48 (Gazelle I think) that was a sheet of flash like the two halves of the mould didnt meet and a 1/72 US fighter that had fuselage halves shaped like a banana, I cant remember what the aircraft was but I do remember cutting the fuselage in half doing some heavy duty filing and gluing it back together to try and make it straight.

[hendie]

It's nothing to do with the tooling. It looks like they have run without any pack pressure, or not packing for long enough. .(Packing accounts for shrinkage within the mold as the part cools and shrinks - packing forces more material into the cavity as the plastic shrinks back.  Just bad molding and even worse quality control

The styrene parts are a different mold, and quite probably a different molding machine.

 

I'd send those back in a heartbeat.  There's not really much you can do  with them in that state.

[dogsbody]

I just checked my Heller kit, which I've had for at least 20 years and it only marginally better than yours. Divots and dimples in the same spots.

 

 

 

Chris

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, AltcarBoB said:

I dont know wether to send it back for a refund or a replacement with the chance that the whole batch is the same.

I remembered I had two of this kit, so I pulled them from the shelf- one is an original release, molded in green styrene, and the other is a later release, molded in grey styrene. The newer one appears to have all of the same molding flaws as the one in the photos you posted. The one in green plastic is much better- it does have some of the same sink marks, but they are much, much more shallow and smaller. I agree with what the others have said- take yours back and see if you can find one in the original boxing, if you absolutely want to build one now; better yet, IIRC, Special Hobby announced a new-tool 174 in 1/72 scale quite a while back, and I would wait for that one, as it's almost a certainty that it will be so much better than any of the Heller boxings.

Mike

[The Spadgent]

If you’re of a mind to fix up old kits then filling and sanding here and there will do the trick. It’s not great having marks like that but I’ve seen a lot worse and older kits can have flaws. If you don’t want to do any of that then see if you can get a refund. Perfect Plastic Putty can be your friend for horrible  sink marks if you fancy a challenge. 🙌

 

Johnny.

[Graham Boak]

Mine dates back to 1973, and is in black plastic with much the same dips and dents, which I filled with Green Stuff in a session and then it stopped in mid-build awaiting a Falcon canopy which was never produced.  But Impossible to build?  Totally unacceptable?  What a load of, well, nonsense, to be polite.   One part session with the filler, another to smooth it, then carry on.  No, it was never going to be a 21st century kit with hundreds to tiny parts or superlative detail - but then it doesn't have deep trenches either. I did add a Darne machine gun from Aeroclub which is probably unobtainable now, and have Modelart transfers to replace the originals, which were never usable.  As for Heller kits being regularly distorted or covered in flash - well, the Cadet series maybe, but not the original Musee series which this belongs to nor their black box series from the 70s which were the finest 1/72 WW2 kits around.

 

It does have some problems in shape, which are probably not worth correcting for the effort involved except for specialists.   I agree that you would probably be better off with a newer Special Hobby kit if, and it is a moderately-sized if, SH get the shape right.  But it will probably be closer anyway.  However if it was announced some time ago and it hasn't appeared, then it probably won't.

[Wez]

6 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

As for Heller kits being regularly distorted or covered in flash - well, the Cadet series maybe, but not the original Musee series which this belongs to nor their black box series from the 70s which were the finest 1/72 WW2 kits around.

I have to agree with Graham on this point, from my experience, Heller kits were always well produced, seldom with any flash or distorted parts, I guess we'll see in the forthcoming Classic Heller Group Build later in the year, if the problems are as prevalent as you suggest I'm sure they'll surface there.

[AltcarBoB]

I sent an eBay message to the seller at 9.43pm last night and got a reply at 6.41am promising a replacement kit. They will check the kit for distortion before despatch.

 

Not bad for customer service 😃. Don't know if I am allowed to mention the seller but he has a large emporium

[3DStewart]

Sink has nothing to do with tool age.  It's sometimes created by poor tool design, but usually by poor machine setup and process control during the production run.  Injection temperature plays a part, but as hendie says it's usually because the packing part of the cycle is too short or not done at sufficient pressure.

 

When I was in the industry a moulding technician would have been in trouble for setting up a machine like that, or the operator for not spotting that the machine had drifted during the production run.

[Graham Boak]

I suspect it is largely caused here (and on other kits of this vintage) because the parts are simply too thick.  It certainly appears that as the problem exists over decades of this kit's existence, it would be very surprising to blame it on wrong setting by individual employees.

[Shark444]

The panel lines are reminiscent of trenches on the Western Front as well.  What a shame since I suspect this is the only Bloch 174 on the market.  Get a new tube of Tamiya putty... 😢 

[Seahawk]

6 hours ago, AltcarBoB said:

Not bad for customer service 😃. Don't know if I am allowed to mention the seller but he has a large emporium

From my limited experience of Dave, you can rely on him to do the decent thing, and with good humour too.  Credit to him.

[Graham Boak]

1 hour ago, Shark444 said:

The panel lines are reminiscent of trenches on the Western Front as well.  What a shame since I suspect this is the only Bloch 174 on the market.  Get a new tube of Tamiya putty... 😢 

The panel lines on mine are rather nice fine raised lines.  I think this kit is before the days of ploughed panel lines.  But OK, the gaps for the control surfaces on the wing are distinctly overdone.  It might be worth adding a few pieces of microstrip to narrow them a but.  perhaps a fair bit.  But don't fill them with putty!

 

Unless they actually did retool it?

[TISO]

Nothing a new tube of putty and some puttying and sanding skills can't solve.

Been there done that sort of a thing.

Bigger problems as as already mentioned in the shape of mostly tail and cowlings.

Replacement cowlings and spinners are produced in resin by Renaissance models:

https://www.renaissance-models.com/ter/index.php/avions-toutes-echelles/echelle-1-72/produits/2982-bloch-174-capots

[AltcarBoB]

Just received the replacement kit and it's a lot better, still got the sink holes and wobbles but they are fixable with some filler. The first kit will be raided for parts and I should be able to build a good model.

 

Superb customer service from Davecoleys emporium. I only reported the problem Saturday night. They did check the kit before sending it out and admitted it wasn't great but a lot better.

[Clifton]

This is why Heller has such a bad reputation here in the States.  I’ve never built one of their kits, and I never will.

[gingerbob]

Well, that's a rather black and white statement.  I (in the states) have had a fair number of Heller kits.  It is worth remembering that they are now 40+ year old tooling.  Some were decidedly "rough", but quite a few were very nice looking.  I still have a very fond regard for their Tempest V, for example.

[Clifton]

@gingerbob Sorry if I came across a bit strong there.  I can see if you’ve found a good kit of theirs that you’d want to build it.  Or if it’s an unusual subject that no one else produces.  But the photos accompanying this post are exactly why I personally avoid their kits.  Some people probably enjoy the challenge of making them better, but I’m not very good at that sort of thing.  

[Work In Progress]

1 hour ago, gingerbob said:

Well, that's a rather black and white statement.  I (in the states) have had a fair number of Heller kits.  It is worth remembering that they are now 40+ year old tooling.  Some were decidedly "rough", but quite a few were very nice looking.  I still have a very fond regard for their Tempest V, for example.

I agree. Few if any kit manufacturers should be judged today on what they tooled more than half a century ago. 

 

I've never had one of these ancient Blochs so can't comment on that kit from personal experience, but like Graham I suspect it is inherently susceptible to sinkage due to the wall thickness of some components, reflecting their relative lack of experience when they tooled it in 1966. But I have had many Heller kits and currently have several in stock. The Tempest V is excellent, my preferred Tempest in 1/72.  The same goes for their absolutely excellent Me262 (single and two-seater), their very nice Gladiator, T-33, T-6G, and Fouga Magister, all of which I have in multiples and none of which suffers any production problems at all. Most Heller kits tooled from the mid '70s onwards are really very nice.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Work In Progress