perdu Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Hi I wonder if anyone could help me with the colours I need for my S-61N. This will be finished as G-ATFM in British Airways colours. I think the scheme is called Negus but am very uncertain about this, civil aviation is a mystery to me. Colour scheme names even more so I have been helped by @Timmas to discover the necessary fonts to print my own transfers which is no real problem my actual problem is in deciding which red and which blue should be used on the fuselage and floats Would any of you be able to point me in the right direction, both for the colour names and if possible help me get the right colour into the airbrush This bit has become easy, the rest of it less so I would appreciate your help thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I might have the original colour references somewhere. Leave it with me for a bit while I trawl through my stuff? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, perdu said: Hi I wonder if anyone could help me with the colours I need for my S-61N. This will be finished as G-ATFM in British Airways colours. I think the scheme is called Negus but am very uncertain about this, civil aviation is a mystery to me. Colour scheme names even more so I have been helped by @Timmas to discover the necessary fonts to print my own transfers which is no real problem my actual problem is in deciding which red and which blue should be used on the fuselage and floats Would any of you be able to point me in the right direction, both for the colour names and if possible help me get the right colour into the airbrush Page 21 of this has the official colour standards, Bill: https://www.logodesignlove.com/images/guidelines/british-airways-brand-guidelines.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, andyf117 said: Page 21 of this has the official colour standards, Bill: https://www.logodesignlove.com/images/guidelines/british-airways-brand-guidelines.pdf I think those are the brand guidelines for the later livery designed by Landor. The red might be correct but I'm pretty sure the Negus blue was darker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Thank you for that Andy I cannot see a reference to old colour schemes in that though, should I assume that using Midnight Blue will be OK for the Negus scheme? I keep seeing blues with obvious green contents and the like when I see old photos. Also, as it's you, do you know if the S-61Ns used the same tail pylon hinges as the other Sea King versions The Walkaround photos don't help a lot with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Thanks Timmas, I have the same concerns about the blue. The document has been saved for future reference though Andy ta There is no immediate hurry thanks Timmas as there is a world of surface snagging going on at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I think I might have found something. I can't locate the Pantone colour (nor a RAL equivalent) , but I'll stick my neck out and call the CMYK values at: Blue: C 100 / M 86 / Y 38 / K 33 Red: M 96 / Y 38 If you print these out it might help you to match the paint colour. Fingers crossed!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 There are Pantone reference in the Whirlybird kit instructions but it doesn't say where they came from, and further Pantone is pretty unhelpful as they don't make referencing to something useable easy. Rather - they go out of their way to make it extremely difficult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Thanks, I will get on that after dinner tonight. I don't suppose Colourcoats has anything suitable Jamie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Repeat post - sorry Edited May 30, 2020 by Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I need to come up with a solution for my own 61 Bill so am interested in this thread. I rendered the CMYK values in easyrgb.com and it gives a colour L13.76 a28.35 b-49.12 which has a Light Reflectance Value of 1.6% which is darker than black paint in practise, whilst having a huge blue saturation. If this was a real paint and not an ink colour for corporate branding (brochures, letter headed paper etc) then it would have needed to be something like almost pure Ultramarine. For the purposes of you and I, I could make some using gloss varnish as a binder and actual Ultramarine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf117 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) DrawDecals quote Humbrol 15 Midnight Blue: TwoSix decals simply say 'Gloss Midnight Blue' (no ref)... Re tail pylon hinges, I really wouldn't know, Bill, but I wouldn't see why not... Edited May 30, 2020 by andyf117 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 I think I will be giving Humbrol's colour a look Andy thanks mate Jamie I have noticed (when making my decals for the Wasp and H-19B) the comparison with colours identified by CMYK in print rarely actually match colours on the kit's decal sheet Whatever I find I will pop it across to you Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmas Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: There are Pantone reference in the Whirlybird kit instructions but it doesn't say where they came from, and further Pantone is pretty unhelpful as they don't make referencing to something useable easy. Rather - they go out of their way to make it extremely difficult. These are good points. One of the problems that existed when creating liveries or corporate identities back in the day was, while it was straightforward enough to choose a Pantone colour (and Pantone was the colour reference system) finding a close CMYK match was often difficult, so you'd choose something close. But it was often slightly different. Finding a corresponding RAL or BS colour was often more difficult still and so there could be another 'close' match. Things aren't really much better nowadays either; Pantone has largely lost its relevance because printing has mostly become digital which uses cmyk mixes, and the web uses rgb and hex. Then there's the issue of how colours look on different screens. "British Airways dark blue" might look ok on your's or mine but awful on someone else's. Anyway, just out of interest, I extracted the cmyk values from the image Andyf117 posted above and placed them alongside the ones I came up with. Andy's are on the right and the values I'm measuring are C 100 / M 83 / Y 38 / K 20. The true colour might be somewhere in between. Who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 I reckon the printed version has succumbed to the weakening I have noticed before and to be fair the colour on the left of the image is far more like what I expect to see I have saved it to have a play with in Paint Shop Pro, Inkscape and Word to see where that takes me Thanks again Timmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 3 hours ago, WhirlybirdModels said: The Pantone references came from the BA Archive, so we are pretty sure they are accurate! Thank you for helping with this, I appreciate it cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 It was a long time ago, but I reckon the shade of blue on the left in your sample looks close Timmas. Spent quite a few hours in BA's machines, all those years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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