Sikorsky S-61N Colour help needed, desperately

[perdu]

Hi I wonder if anyone could help me with the colours I need for my S-61N.

This will be finished as G-ATFM in British Airways colours.

 

I think the scheme is called Negus but am very uncertain about this, civil aviation is a mystery to me.

 

Colour scheme names even more so 

 

I have been helped by @Timmas to discover the necessary fonts to print my own transfers which is no real problem my actual problem is in deciding which red and which blue should be used on the fuselage and floats

 

Would any of you be able to point me in the right direction, both for the colour names and if possible help me get the right colour into the airbrush

 

This bit has become easy, the rest of it less so

 

 

I would appreciate your help thanks

[Timmas]

I might have the original colour references somewhere. Leave it with me for a bit while I trawl through my stuff?

[andyf117]

1 hour ago, perdu said:

Hi I wonder if anyone could help me with the colours I need for my S-61N.

This will be finished as G-ATFM in British Airways colours.

 

I think the scheme is called Negus but am very uncertain about this, civil aviation is a mystery to me.

 

Colour scheme names even more so 

 

I have been helped by @Timmas to discover the necessary fonts to print my own transfers which is no real problem my actual problem is in deciding which red and which blue should be used on the fuselage and floats

 

Would any of you be able to point me in the right direction, both for the colour names and if possible help me get the right colour into the airbrush

 

Page 21 of this has the official colour standards, Bill: https://www.logodesignlove.com/images/guidelines/british-airways-brand-guidelines.pdf

[Timmas]

3 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

Page 21 of this has the official colour standards, Bill: https://www.logodesignlove.com/images/guidelines/british-airways-brand-guidelines.pdf

I think those are the brand guidelines for the later livery designed by Landor. The red might be correct but I'm pretty sure the Negus blue was darker.

[perdu]

Thank you for that Andy

 

I cannot see a reference to old colour schemes in that though, should I assume that using Midnight Blue will be OK for the Negus scheme?

 

I keep seeing blues with obvious green contents and the like when I see old photos.

 

Also, as it's you, do you know if the S-61Ns used  the same tail pylon hinges as the other Sea King versions

 

The Walkaround photos don't help a lot with this

[perdu]

Thanks Timmas, I have the same concerns about the blue.

 

The document has been saved for future reference though Andy ta

There is no immediate hurry thanks Timmas as there is a world of surface snagging going on at the moment

[Timmas]

I think I might have found something. I can't locate the Pantone colour (nor a RAL equivalent) , but I'll stick my neck out and call the CMYK values at:

 

Blue: C 100 / M 86 / Y 38 / K 33

Red: M 96 / Y 38

 

If you print these out it might help you to match the paint colour. Fingers crossed!!

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

There are Pantone reference in the Whirlybird kit instructions but it doesn't say where they came from, and further Pantone is pretty unhelpful as they don't make referencing to something useable easy. Rather - they go out of their way to make it extremely difficult.

[perdu]

Thanks, I will get on that after dinner tonight.

 

I don't suppose Colourcoats has anything suitable Jamie?

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Repeat post - sorry

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I need to come up with a solution for my own 61 Bill so am interested in this thread.

 

I rendered the CMYK values in easyrgb.com and it gives a colour L13.76 a28.35 b-49.12 which has a Light Reflectance Value of 1.6% which is darker than black paint in practise, whilst having a huge blue saturation.

 

If this was a real paint and not an ink colour for corporate branding (brochures, letter headed paper etc) then it would have needed to be something like almost pure Ultramarine.

 

For the purposes of you and I, I could make some using gloss varnish as a binder and actual Ultramarine.

[andyf117]

DrawDecals quote Humbrol 15 Midnight Blue:

 

TwoSix decals simply say 'Gloss Midnight Blue' (no ref)...

 

Re tail pylon hinges, I really wouldn't know, Bill, but I wouldn't see why not...

Edited May 30, 2020 by andyf117

[perdu]

I think I will be giving Humbrol's colour a look Andy thanks mate

 

Jamie I have noticed (when making my decals for the Wasp and H-19B) the comparison with colours identified by CMYK in print rarely actually match colours on the kit's decal sheet

Whatever I find I will pop it across to you

 

Thanks guys

[Timmas]

30 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

There are Pantone reference in the Whirlybird kit instructions but it doesn't say where they came from, and further Pantone is pretty unhelpful as they don't make referencing to something useable easy. Rather - they go out of their way to make it extremely difficult.

These are good points. One of the problems that existed when creating liveries or corporate identities back in the day was, while it was straightforward enough to choose a Pantone colour (and Pantone was the colour reference system) finding a close CMYK match was often difficult, so you'd choose something close. But it was often slightly different. Finding a corresponding RAL or BS colour was often more difficult still and so there could be another 'close' match. Things aren't really much better nowadays either; Pantone has largely lost its relevance because printing has mostly become digital which uses cmyk mixes, and the web uses rgb and hex.

 

Then there's the issue of how colours look on different screens. "British Airways dark blue" might look ok on your's or mine but awful on someone else's.

 

Anyway, just out of interest, I extracted the cmyk values from the image Andyf117 posted above and placed them alongside the ones I came up with. Andy's are on the right and the values I'm measuring are C 100 / M 83 / Y 38 / K 20. The true colour might be somewhere in between. Who knows?

 

[perdu]

I reckon the printed version has succumbed to the weakening I have noticed before and to be fair the colour on the left of the image is far more like what I expect to see

 

I have saved it to have a play with in Paint Shop Pro, Inkscape and Word to see where that takes me

 

Thanks again Timmas

[perdu]

3 hours ago, WhirlybirdModels said:

The Pantone references came from the BA Archive, so we are pretty sure they are accurate!

Thank you for helping with this, I appreciate it cheers

[John B (Sc)]

It was a long time ago, but I reckon the shade of blue on the left in your sample looks close Timmas.  Spent quite a few hours in BA's machines, all those years ago.