Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Not an expert on the Sherman and need some help,I have a set of Star decals that I ordered for my Firefly and it also comes with decals for a British Sherman too.

This set 

spacer.png 

What kit can I purchase for the British Sherman?

Thanks

Edited by Karlj72
Link to post
Share on other sites

Dragon do a Sherman III (6313) that would be suitable. Not too sure of its availability but i recently got one from ebay for a decent price. The turret stowage box in the lit is the wrong type for NW Europe though but it shouldn't be a problem as the marking option on your decal sheet show this as not fitted. They also do the VC Firefly (6182) which should be fairly easy to source. Asuka also do both versions but they can be expensive and Ryefield models have also recently released a VC Firefly.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dragon also do a mid production Sicily (6231) which may be more appropriate as there are drivers hood differences.

I will look at my stash to compare.

Regards,

Neil

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with the Dragon kits are they have the wrong type road wheels or tracks,the road wheels should be the welded type.

The only kit that comes close is  Tasca 35016 but that has a different transmission cover and the kit is well out of production and hard to find.

 

Thanks for your replies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

'British Shermans' are something of a complex story because we used several of the Sherman variants.

 

However, in the case of the decals you have, 27th Armoured Brigade used the Sherman III (M4A2) primarily and their Fireflys were all Sherman Vc (M4A4).

 

The 'senior' battalion (13/18 Hussars) had red turret numbers.

The 'second senior' battalion (Staffordshire Yeomanry) didn't use turret numbers at all - instead they had large names along the hull sides in yellow outline letters.

The 'junior' battalion (East Riding Yeomany) used turret numbers and the assumption is that they were blue (because that was the normal colour used for tactical markings by a junior battalion in a brigade).

 

This is 'Spitfire' being reversed onto an LCT  a couple of days before D-Day -

FIREFLY_SPITFIRE_ERY.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, John Tapsell said:

'British Shermans' are something of a complex story because we used several of the Sherman variants.

 

However, in the case of the decals you have, 27th Armoured Brigade used the Sherman III (M4A2) primarily and their Fireflys were all Sherman Vc (M4A4).

 

The 'senior' battalion (13/18 Hussars) had red turret numbers.

The 'second senior' battalion (Staffordshire Yeomanry) didn't use turret numbers at all - instead they had large names along the hull sides in yellow outline letters.

The 'junior' battalion (East Riding Yeomany) used turret numbers and the assumption is that they were blue (because that was the normal colour used for tactical markings by a junior battalion in a brigade).

 

This is 'Spitfire' being reversed onto an LCT  a couple of days before D-Day -

FIREFLY_SPITFIRE_ERY.jpg

See I have the RFM Firefly and it took me a while trying to find a decal alternative as I think everyone else will do the Joe Ekins vehicle,so I love the look of Spitfire and I also have a couple of sets of British tank crew figures and wanted to do a diorama of both vehicles park along  side each other.

I shall keep on looking.

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think this kit is suitable as the kit comes with many parts such as 2 types of transmission covers and 2 types of road wheels?

spacer.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Karlj72 said:

Do you think this kit is suitable as the kit comes with many parts such as 2 types of transmission covers and 2 types of road wheels?

...........and the wrong engine deck. M4A2/Sherman llls were diesel engined. The M4 had a radial engine. Plus the tracks might not be the right type.

 

John.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just be wary - the Star Decals set claims that Cassius (no.52) was an A Sqn vehicle but that isn't so. It's a C Sqn vehicle (and Star provide the correct circular tac marking for C Sqn).

 

ERY numbered their tanks starting with No.1 Troop, A Sqn , then B and C Sqns in sequence and finally the HQ Sqn (highest numbers) - thus Spitfire is the second tank in No.1 Troop. In ERY, the Firefly was the second tank in each Troop - so the A Sqn Fireflies were numbered 2, 6, 10 and 14.

 

13/18 Hussars numbered their tanks starting with the HQ Sqn and with '10' as the first number ('Balaclava', Lt Col. Harrup's command tank) and then A, B and C Sqns in sequence. In 13/18 Hussars, the Firefly was the fourth tank in each Troop so in C Sqn on D-Day, their Fireflies were 63, 67, 71 and 75.

 

There were small gaps in the numbering sequences betwen the last tank in each Sqn and the first tank in the next Sqn

 

The Tamiya Sherman is a poor choice for a number of reasons - the front end is characteristic of an M4A4, the engine deck is incorrect for an A2 and the back end plate of the upper hull should be almost vertical on an A2. The Dragon or Asuka/Tasca kits are a better option for those reasons. Because you are portraying a specific vehicle, you need to check what the specific manufacturing features were (27th Armd Brigade may have used the Sherman III but their vehicles were a right mix of early, mid and late production examples). A quick study of the image below (from a previous Michael Kenny thread on ML) suggests that Cassius is probably a later production vehicle with either welded or cast hoods (can't quite tell myself) and a welded aerial base (very simple straight walls rather than the 'mushroom' casting on the Tamiya kit).  Note the mix of spoked and solid roadwheels plus the ealier 'fancy' sprocket style - all-metal tracks too.

Finally - note that Cassius is fitted with a turret stowage bin at the rear.

Regards,

John

 

Qw8FgU.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn yes never thought of the engine deck being different,might be harder than I thought.

Thanks chaps much appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the Dragon Tarawa 6062 may be better as has the pressed wheels but tracks would need changing.

 

PM sent.

Neil

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tamiya M4 Early also has an M4A4 glacis which is essentially impossible to correct without more than doubling the cost with resin parts. That kit is fit only for the bin.

 

There are a couple of etched brass turret stowage bins. ET and Voyager spring to mind.  I believe ET do it separately and Voyager include it in their Sherman III etch set.  Verlinden did them in resin but now very hard to find.

 

"Wrong wheels" and "wrong tracks" are difficult statements to substantiate as both varied over time and from one manufacturer to another.  The UK received M4A2s from all manufacturers of that type (question mark over Federal) and these were frequently shipped as mixed batches by Ordnance Tank Depots. US Ordnance regarded each sub-type of Sherman as a singular type regardless of manufacturer variations and shipped whatever they had on hand.  Older build standards might get held up for urgent modifications often required to be incorporated by depots before shipping.   So units were not necessarily all equipped initially with the same "brand" or configuration and replacements would have been ad-hoc.  Tracks and wheels were also replaced in the field.

 

There is nothing wrong with the T54 tracks and pressed spoke wheels on the Tarawa M4A2 for a British tank as that was a build configuration at Fisher for a time.  But that kit is least suitable as it has none of the "British" parts.

 

The Asuka kits are reputedly very nice.  I have the early DV M4A2 and that is certainly nice.  Their M4A2 Romilly kit works but would need new tracks plus stowage bins etc.  The UK did not like rubber chevron tracks whereas the US did, so T48 tracks on British tanks are rarer than all-steel types.  Their Sherman III #35-018 is ideal, at a price.  Again there is nothing wrong with the T49 track and pressed spoke wheels.  We had Shermans with T49 tracks. M4A2s were fitted with them and Fisher used pressed-spoke wheels.

 

In Dragon-land, their Sherman III Sicily #6231 and Sherman III #6313 are both perfectly usable.  They just represent different "brands".  6231 is Fisher-built and 6313 is ALCO or Pullman Standard, or possibly Federal.  However, the tracks supplied with the "Sicily" tank would only be appropriate for Italy and even then are unusual there.  But it is probably the most appropriate Sherman III kit to use as Fisher built 3 or 4 times more small-hatch M4A2s than all the other manufacturers combined, so they are by far the most common.

 

For the Firefly VC, I've just built both Asuka and RFM and there are pros and cons both ways.  Asuka bogies are easier to build but I don't like vinyl tracks, whereas RFM comes with indy links at a cost of complex bogies and daft sprocket construction.  Asuka has applique armour, RFM doesn't. etc etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...