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RB-57B Canberra camera windows


ReccePhreak

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I have decided I want to do my Classic Airframes 1/48 B-57B Canberra as an RB-57B assigned to the 154th TRS - Arkansas ANG, using Superscale decals MS481229.

I want to add the camera windows (and maybe cameras), and possibly any photoflash gear, if the aircraft was used for night reconnaissance. The aircraft was reportedly painted overall gloss black.

I looked all over the Canberra SIG website, but could only find recce info for all the other PR Canberras, but NOT the RB-57B. 

@canberra kid can you help me? Or anybody else?

Larry

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I didn't have much success finding reference material on the RB-57B, which was evidently a conversion of the B-57B bomber airframe. According to Martin Aircraft 1909-1960 by John R Breihan/Stan Piet/Roger S Mason, many B-57B's were converted to RB-57B's, but no serials or number of conversions were listed.  There was no mention or photos of RB-57B's in either the Squadron In Action on the B-57 or B-57 Canberra at War, by Robert Mikesh. Maybe John @canberra kid might be able to help you. The two links below purport to be RB-57B's, with the second one coming from the IPMS Canberra SIG. Wish I could be more helpful.

Mike

 

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-martin-rb-57b-canberra-55294082.html

 

https://ipmscanberrasig.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=167038182

 

 

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Thanks for the reply. After I posted my topic, I started doing some research. I also looked in B-57 Canberra at War by Robert Mikesh, and didn't find anything of help. When I looked through Martin B-57 Canberra - The Complete Record by Robert Mikesh, I saw that the tail  number on my decal sheet "21536" was a B-57B 52-1536. There are no RB-57B versions listed, even though the book mentions some were modified by the 154th TRS - Arkansas ANG with one reconnaissance camera. They were replaced by the RB-57A, which was more suited for the reconnaissance role. Of course, it doesn't mention where the camera was mounted in the modified B-57Bs.

Larry

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Hi  @ReccePhreak Larry and @72modeler Mike I started to go through the B.57 at war book adding the RB.57B canvertions to the list. He and many more authors appear to be unaware or ignorant of the existence or or modifications to the B.57B. I'm at work at the moment, but when I get home I'll dig the info out for you. 

John

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Hi @ReccePhreak Larry 

You have two choices for the camera configuration, the first and most numerous was the simplest type with just one camera in the nose there is a photo of it in Mikesh's book on page 87 top left, though he miss Identifies the camera window as 'sighting widow' as n the drawing below. A good quick identifier for the RB.57B is the repositioned pitot from  under the nose to the tip of the nose cap, check the tail number though as this is the standard position on the B.57C,  and obviously, if you can see it the camera window.    

  37Xggc.png

The other type is much more interesting, but less were converted. 52-1567, 53-3831, 53-3841, 55-4239, 55-4248. I've taken photos from the illustrated parts catalog T.O. 

  37XlhA.jpg

 37XuP1.jpg

37XcGz.jpg

37X5YG.jpg

37Xq4W.jpg

John

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@canberra kid John,

 

1st off- thanks for taking the time to dig up the outstanding references on the RB-57B. 2nd off- is the second camera fit you posted references to the same as the fit in the first photo I posted? Looks like the same configuration to me, but I'm no Canberra savant like somebody else I know! Pilots just kick the tires and light the fires- they're not interested in the minutiae like we crazy modelers are! Your expertise and willingness to share are always appreciated by us lesser modeling mortals. :like: BTW, if they ever relax the security at Lackland AB and there are any detail photos of their RB-57A you would like, please let me know, OK? (I still owe you for the BMk2 parts!)

Mike

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4 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

@canberra kid John,

 

1st off- thanks for taking the time to dig up the outstanding references on the RB-57B. 2nd off- is the second camera fit you posted references to the same as the fit in the first photo I posted? Looks like the same configuration to me, but I'm no Canberra savant like somebody else I know! You would think Mikesh would know better, especially since he flew them for much of his career. Pilots just kick the tires and light the fires- they're not interested in the minutiae like we crazy modelers are! Your expertise and willingness to share are always appreciated by us lesser modeling mortals. :like: BTW, if they ever relax the security at Lackland AB and there are any detail photos of their RB-57A you would like, please let me know, OK? (I still owe you for the BMk2 parts!)

Mike

Hi Mike

Thank you for your kind words! It is the safe and same set up as in the first link yes. I will definatly take you up on your kind offer of the photos too. 

John

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Mike, Sorry but you do Mikesh a disservice, even if the comment is in jest, which I am sure that it was.  He was in the IPMS, I believe and we all stand on his shoulders. Not everything can be known nor revealed, as anyone who has served may know.🙂

You are right about pilots.

Sorry, not meant to offend, but I really respect Mikesh as a historian. Never met him.

 

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@canberra kid John, thanks for the info from the Tech Orders. I only have Flight Manuals for the RB-57A & RB-57F, as well as the Aircrew Non-Nuclear Weapons Delivery Manual - B-57B, C & E.

None of them have any useful (Modelling-wise) information on the camera installations. Looking at your scans, I think I will stick with just the K-22 vertical camera in the nose. I definitely won't be doing the side oblique installation with 2 Maurer P-2 Aerial Strike Cameras. I find it hard to believe that the aircrew would would need optical sights in the cockpit, so they can line up those wide angle lens equipped cameras. In the RF-4C we only used optical sights for big cameras with very long focal-length lenses, so we didn't miss the targets. I guess in the RB-57B & C, the backseater needed all the help he could get in order to hit his targets. :hmmm:

Larry

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3 hours ago, Gmat said:

Mike, Sorry but you do Mikesh a disservice, even if the comment is in jest, which I am sure that it was.  He was in the IPMS, I believe and we all stand on his shoulders. Not everything can be known nor revealed, as anyone who has served may know.🙂

You are right about pilots.

Sorry, not meant to offend, but I really respect Mikesh as a historian. Never met him.

 

Meant no disrespect- I have all of his books and his work with IPMS is well-known and respected. I meant, in jest, that most pilots don't concern themselves with all of the variants, production numbers and serials, trivial details, colors and markings, etc. that we modelers do- they just get in them and fly 'em! My good friend, who flew F-101B's, has told me I seem to know a lot more about the airplane than he does, but I always remind him that he got to fly them- I can only read about them and build them. Your point is well taken. I will edit my original post.

Mike

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19 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

@canberra kid John, thanks for the info from the Tech Orders. I only have Flight Manuals for the RB-57A & RB-57F, as well as the Aircrew Non-Nuclear Weapons Delivery Manual - B-57B, C & E.

None of them have any useful (Modelling-wise) information on the camera installations. Looking at your scans, I think I will stick with just the K-22 vertical camera in the nose. I definitely won't be doing the side oblique installation with 2 Maurer P-2 Aerial Strike Cameras. I find it hard to believe that the aircrew would would need optical sights in the cockpit, so they can line up those wide angle lens equipped cameras. In the RF-4C we only used optical sights for big cameras with very long focal-length lenses, so we didn't miss the targets. I guess in the RB-57B & C, the backseater needed all the help he could get in order to hit his targets. :hmmm:

Larry

Hi Larry

 

That would be a much more straightforward build, KY ANG appear to have got the lion's share of that version, I'm not sure if the single camera model had the photo flash dispenser in the rear fuselage there should be something in the IPC T.O. but I've not found it as yet. I'll keep looking though, it's two very BIG books!  Given the lack of dedicated recon equipment I think the little visual reference sight would have been a bit of a boon, the RAF had pencil lines drawn on the canopy, the RB.57A with the same camera mod's had them too. 

 

John     

 

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16 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Meant no disrespect- I have all of his books and his work with IPMS is well-known and respected. I meant, in jest, that most pilots don't concern themselves with all of the variants, production numbers and serials, trivial details, colors and markings, etc. that we modelers do- they just get in them and fly 'em! My good friend, who flew F-101B's, has told me I seem to know a lot more about the airplane than he does, but I always remind him that he got to fly them- I can only read about them and build them. Your point is well taken. I will edit my original post.

Mike

 

20 hours ago, Gmat said:

Mike, Sorry but you do Mikesh a disservice, even if the comment is in jest, which I am sure that it was.  He was in the IPMS, I believe and we all stand on his shoulders. Not everything can be known nor revealed, as anyone who has served may know.🙂

You are right about pilots.

Sorry, not meant to offend, but I really respect Mikesh as a historian. Never met him.

 

Mike and Gmat, I wasn't being disrespectful to Mr. Mikesh either but he has made some errors in the book, which I've only pointed out so these are not passed it lore,so many things in modeling. I'm well aware of the pitfalls of writing a book on the Canberra and B.57! It's definitely true Mike, pilot's afe quite often not the best people to ask about the details of the thing they fly! 

 

John 

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7 hours ago, canberra kid said:

Hi Larry

 

That would be a much more straightforward build, KY ANG appear to have got the lion's share of that version, I'm not sure if the single camera model had the photo flash dispenser in the rear fuselage there should be something in the IPC T.O. but I've not found it as yet. I'll keep looking though, it's two very BIG books!  Given the lack of dedicated recon equipment I think the little visual reference sight would have been a bit of a boon, the RAF had pencil lines drawn on the canopy, the RB.57A with the same camera mod's had them too. 

 

John     

 

Hi John,

I think since the RB-57B Canberra was an interim version until the units got the dedicated RB-57A, that they probably did not use the single K-22 nose-mounted vertical camera for night missions, thus not needing photoflash equipment. I could be wrong, but "That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!" :hmmm:

If you do find any info (drawings, etc) of the photoflash equipment, I still would like to see it.

I just sold my Airfix 1/48 B-57B/RB-57E/B-57G Canberra kit, so now the only 1/48 Canberras I have are the Classic Airframes B-57B and my pride & joy, the Airfix 1/48 Canberra PR.9 (With LOTS of aftermarket!). Of course, I still have 2 Italeri 1/72 B-57B kits and one Italeri 1/72 B-57G. One of my Italeri B-57B kits is started, making it into a nuclear equipped bird based in France (NATO). I am scratch-building the nuke for the bomb bay. It's a kit I started probably 20 years ago (It's the 1985 initial issue).

Larry

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@canberra kid John,

One more question on the Classic Airframes B-57B kit, does it really need replacement tip tanks? The ones in my kit measure out to the size posted on your website, but there may be some other errors in the kit tanks. The only ones on Hannants is the Loon Models tip tanks, are they okay? Scalemates lists tanks by Belcher Bits and Lone Star Models, but I don't know which is more accurate, and even which ones are readily available.

Larry

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4 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

@canberra kid John,

One more question on the Classic Airframes B-57B kit, does it really need replacement tip tanks? The ones in my kit measure out to the size posted on your website, but there may be some other errors in the kit tanks. The only ones on Hannants is the Loon Models tip tanks, are they okay? Scalemates lists tanks by Belcher Bits and Lone Star Models, but I don't know which is more accurate, and even which ones are readily available.

Larry

Hi Larry, first off, I tend to agree with your theory regarding the sigal camera not being used for anything other than day photography. As for the photo flash crates I'll dig out what I have in the T.O's. The tip tanks are a mix of problems and fixes, in the original issues of the kit the tanks were undersize, this was fixed in later kits, that's the fix, the remaining problem is the shape around the back end I'll have to check but I think it's too 'fluted'?but you can check them against the photos here in Tip Tank album, the photos are of a chaff tank from a T.17 but it's a converted tip tank. 

 

John     

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Mike, I saw your retraction and will say 'thank you' and also say you are a better man than me. I never do things like this, for what really is a small thing and regretted it, after thinking about it. I apologize for any hurt, even if small, that must have come. 

Canberra Kid, providing corrections add to our knowledge and benefits the hobby. 

To both of you, Mike and John, thank you for all that you have done. And that is a lot. 

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2 hours ago, canberra kid said:

Hi Larry, first off, I tend to agree with your theory regarding the sigal camera not being used for anything other than day photography. As for the photo flash crates I'll dig out what I have in the T.O's. The tip tanks are a mix of problems and fixes, in the original issues of the kit the tanks were undersize, this was fixed in later kits, that's the fix, the remaining problem is the shape around the back end I'll have to check but I think it's too 'fluted'?but you can check them against the photos here in Tip Tank album, the photos are of a chaff tank from a T.17 but it's a converted tip tank. 

 

John     

Hi John,

I compared my kit tanks with your scale drawing, and the dimensions are spot on. If I have to modify the rear shape, I think it'll be easier to do that with a plastic tank, instead of a resin replacement. Plus, the plastic tank will stay more securely fastened to the kit's wings than a resin one would, IMHO.

Larry

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14 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

Hi John,

I compared my kit tanks with your scale drawing, and the dimensions are spot on. If I have to modify the rear shape, I think it'll be easier to do that with a plastic tank, instead of a resin replacement. Plus, the plastic tank will stay more securely fastened to the kit's wings than a resin one would, IMHO.

Larry

That should work fine Larry.

John

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A  belated incursion into the tip tank discussion. When I got into this a number of years ago, it was because the Classic Airframes Canberra tanks were too small in diameter. Airfix Canberra tanks were a funny shape. The Classic Airframes B-57 tanks were just the right size.  So I brought out a resin replacement set, with a bit of added detail to the nose. However, if you have the Classic Airframes  B-57 kit, you're golden :)

Mike Belcher

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