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Henschel H S 126 sight lines?


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Posted (edited)

The angled lines on the fuselage of the H S 126 has always been puzzling me........
I know it had something to do with the dive angle, but how did it benefit the pilot because he could not see them from his position.

 

Any experts  please.............

 

 

 

 

Edited by Etiennedup
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Hello

Not an expert, but I do not think those lines were intended to help Hs 126 pilots to asses dive angles. Probably they had been used by observers who could, given the known height over terrain, determine approximate distances to objects at which the lines pointed and perhaps to assist them when taking photos with hand-held cameras. Cheers

Jure

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I think I remember reading somewhere that the lines had something to do with determining attack heights by the observer. I will try to find the reference.

Mike

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Posted (edited)

spacer.pngLines for observer, but I cannot remember..

Searched a photo, with numbers 50, 100, 500, 1000 (I asuume not 7000, cause it cannot be so high....)

 

 

There truly have few Hs126 with bomb racks...only in Spain?

Edited by fernandocouto
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4 minutes ago, Hornet133 said:

I'm aghast at the thought of the Hs-126 attempting to emulate a dive bombing attack 😃

Apparently the proposed tactic to be used was a version of the kamikaze method, except that at a certain point when the pilot pulled up, the fuselage detached from the wing. Obviously this was a feature that did not survive the first pre-flight briefing of the test pilot. 😄

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1 hour ago, MilneBay said:

except that at a certain point when the pilot pulled up, the fuselage detached from the wing

Was that the inspiration for the Mistel composite?

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10 hours ago, Etiennedup said:

The angled lines on the fuselage of the H S 126 has always been puzzling me........

 

On this the observer has to lean out over the side to take his photos. His aerial camera has no viewfinder as you know it, just a wire 'sports frame', a more basic form but like the cross-hairs and ball early gun sights

The lines are to help him to line up his camera on the subject he has to photograph

 

a bit like this viewfinder

s-l400.jpg

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Thanks for the great input chaps.........especially fernandocouto for the very nice photo as well as Black Night. Your  info makes perfect sense.

Now my soul can rest............

 

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)

In addition to providing an aiming aid for the observer, I wonder if the lines are used as:

1. a reference to record the obliquity of photographs and mitigate the effects of angular distortion. If the crew only use a specific series of angles for oblique photography (particularly if an area target is taken from a series of different angles) it makes the image analysis a lot simpler - that way, the image analyst is not trying to guess size and spatial positioning from what would otherwise a random set of angles and distances.

2. a reference to perform calculations for artillery spotting and correction.

 

Also, I was fooled into thinking the larger figure was 7000, but now I see it's just a different style for 1000:

https://www.alamyimages.fr/photo-image-evenements-seconde-guerre-mondiale-seconde-guerre-mondiale-guerre-aerienne-personnes-equipage-d-un-avion-allemand-de-reconnaissance-etroite-henschel-hs-126-avant-le-decollage-vers-1940-28086531.html

and

https://www.alamyimages.fr/photo-image-un-observateur-et-le-pilote-d-un-hs-126-au-cours-d-un-exercice-en-1939-122549715.html

 

Edited by Blimpyboy
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, fernandocouto said:

spacer.pngLines for observer, but I cannot remember..

Searched a photo, with numbers 50, 100, 500, 1000 (I asuume not 7000, cause it cannot be so high....)

 

 

There truly have few Hs126 with bomb racks...only in Spain?

It is a guide to dropping *something*, possibly a bomb but possibly something else in the army co-op role. And from the level, not from a dive. Not intended for the pilot's benefit as the rear-seater drops the whatever-it-is. Numbers are height above target level in metres. When the target is at the appropriate angle denoted by the line for the relevant height AGL, that's when the arc of the bomb / package  will reach the target.

Edited by Work In Progress
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10 hours ago, Hornet133 said:

I'm aghast at the thought of the Hs-126 attempting to emulate a dive bombing attack 

I think maybe the observer threw large empty bottles of Hofbrau over the side in an attempt to hit enemy troops; bottles made a nice whistling sound reminiscent of a Stuka, thus striking panic into the foe; bottles were most likely emptied first by the observer in an attempt to work up enough courage to go through with the low-level attack! :like:

Mike

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4 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

It is a guide to dropping *something*, possibly a bomb but possibly something else in the army co-op role. And from the level, not from a dive. Not intended for the pilot's benefit as the rear-seater drops the whatever-it-is. Numbers are height above target level in metres. When the target is at the appropriate angle denoted by the line for the relevant height AGL, that's when the arc of the bomb / package  will reach the target.

Message bag.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

t is a guide to dropping *something*, possibly a bomb but possibly something else in the army co-op role. And from the level, not from a dive. Not intended for the pilot's benefit as the rear-seater drops the whatever-it-is. Numbers are height above target level in metres. When the target is at the appropriate angle denoted by the line for the relevant height AGL, that's when the arc of the bomb / package  will reach the target.

If it's a guide to dropping something, wouldn't the altitude figures need to be reversed?

If we assume a constant velocity, the lowest drop altitude requires a lesser offset (or lead angle, call it what you will) - therefore, the numbers on the Hs 126 fuselage lines would need to run in the opposite direction.

 

Unless, of course, each line is calibrated against a different airspeed...

Edited by Blimpyboy
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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2020 at 9:53 AM, Blimpyboy said:

If it's a guide to dropping something, wouldn't the altitude figures need to be reversed?

If we assume a constant velocity, the lowest drop altitude requires a lesser offset (or lead angle, call it what you will) - therefore, the numbers on the Hs 126 fuselage lines would need to run in the opposite direction.

 

Sigh...

Belay all of my previous statement, it's just plain wrong!

Kids, let this be a clear example of senility at work (apologies to Work In Progress)...

 

WjRDn37.gif

 

:facepalm:

Time to start doing more crosswords and Sudoku, methinks...

Sigh.

 

I think I'm leaning toward the lines being used to drop messages, as per Jochen Barett's post, in addition to being an aid for oblique photography (post #10). To my mind, that seems more in keeping with the Hs 126's original design role.

I don't want to think about blast damage from a bomb dropped at 50 metres...

Edited by Blimpyboy
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They are reference sighting lines for the observer in use with the hand held camera. Means for orienting fixed or moving beam in predetermined relationship to aircraft to allow for various parameters such as altitude, speed, trajectories, etc. colours vary from:

 

yellow red black white

yellow black white white

white red white white

 

 

Some colour:

 

49950678197_eea57ca1e9_o.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

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Can anyone enhance this image and make out what the observer is holding close to the aft-most line ?

It looks like an aerial camera to me, with the type of view finder I mentioned, on its top 

Hs-126-photo-recce-training-E-Prussia.jp

 

To show the hand held camera and frame view finder

an-observer-and-the-pilot-of-an-hs-126-d

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7 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Can anyone enhance this image and make out what the observer is holding close to the aft-most line ?

It looks like an aerial camera to me, with the type of view finder I mentioned, on its top 

 

 

To show the hand held camera and frame view finder

 

Relying on this source http://www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/bordgerate/kamera.htm

it is a "Handkammer HK 13x18cm". "Hand" like "hand", "Kammer" like "chamber" or the Italian "camera". 13x18cm being the size of the negative.

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Regarding those lines on the Hs 126 :-

 

 The Hs126 handbook of 1939, L.Dv. 575/2, identifies these markings as sight lines for dropping bombs and goes on to say that the pilot is to attempt to ensure that the aircraft has a ground speed of 255 kph. For dropping from a higher altitude there are lines for 1,000 and 500m at 42 and 52 degrees while for lower altitude there are lines for 100 and 50m set at 71 and 77 degrees. They were in line with the observer's cockpit because the observer was responsible for dropping the bombs. These markings were all for level bombing. The Hs 126 could carry 10 x 10kg bombs of various types for a normal bomb load of 100kg.

 

HTH

Dave

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The Hs 126 could carry a single large bomb.

 

49959908153_a5614d0b9b_o.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris

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Posted (edited)

Apparently, several small bombs could also be carried in the empty camera bay.

The last photo on this page: https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/henschel-hs126.42944/page-6 shows ordnance being loaded into said bay.

This page has a photo of bombs being dropped: http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pictures_hs_126_bombing.html

 

Seems like a dud way to accurately aim bombs!

 

 

P.S. Just 'cause, here's a photo I found of a Greek Hs 126, with bombs on the side bay and the bottom of the fuselage: https://postlmg.cc/PpwtW1CF

Edited by Blimpyboy
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