Noorduyn Norseman Forest Service -modified Revell 1/72 kit

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

The new engine and prop are given a base color coat:

[72modeler]

@Moa and @dogsbody,

 

Claudio and Chris,

 

Found this just now and thought some of the details might be useful to you.

Mike

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Noorduyn-UC-64A-Norseman-VI-C-64A/6016227/L?qsp=eJwljDEOwkAMBP%2BydRqEoLgOeAAUfMDyWUmkgE%2B2C6Iof8cc3WhGmg2s75BPPNcmKHAh4wkDGhm9HGVDmzT0RiGj2opyGuBqcU1ETXthlhZS8fd3q2K/JM59M%2Bb2kCD26IzjOX2dvS3UHxI0L9j3Lw8FLnw%3D

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

4 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

@Moa and @dogsbody,

 

Claudio and Chris,

 

Found this just now and thought some of the details might be useful to you.

Mike

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Noorduyn-UC-64A-Norseman-VI-C-64A/6016227/L?qsp=eJwljDEOwkAMBP%2BydRqEoLgOeAAUfMDyWUmkgE%2B2C6Iof8cc3WhGmg2s75BPPNcmKHAh4wkDGhm9HGVDmzT0RiGj2opyGuBqcU1ETXthlhZS8fd3q2K/JM59M%2Bb2kCD26IzjOX2dvS3UHxI0L9j3Lw8FLnw%3D

Unfortunately those long braces are only present in certain models, not on the ones I am centering.

As you can see the side windows correspond to later modifications too.

We are looking on our side at photos that have the door either open or close, but show no means of support (apparently, of course) or hinges, unless there is something at the very tip of the corner, which would be strange, since it would have to support a great weight at maximum lever effort.

But thanks for looking nevertheless.

 

 

 

[72modeler]

5 minutes ago, Moa said:

But thanks for looking nevertheless.

 

No problem! I figured the aircraft in the photo had a different door and window arrangement than the ones you both are modeling, but now that I know what to look for, if I come across any photos that I think you might not have seen already, (Fat chance, as thoroughly as you do research!) I will post them.

Mike

[72modeler]

Hopefully, you haven't already discovered these sites; if so, sorry for the duplication- if not, I hope they have some useful photos.

Mike

 

https://www.bushplane.com/bushplanes/bushplanes-norseman/

 

https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-noorduyn-norseman-ontario-2

 

http://www.norsemancapital.com/norseman/

 

[dogsbody]

So I've marked where the hinges are on the first picture Mike posted, But nowhere do I see anything that would keep the door open.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

But nowhere do I see anything that would keep the door open.

Chris,

 

Do think maybe the door opens 180 degrees against the fuselage and so does not need a holdback device of some sort? Just making a wild guess.

Mike

[dogsbody]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Chris,

 

Do think maybe the door opens 180 degrees against the fuselage and so does not need a holdback device of some sort? Just making a wild guess.

Mike

 

Maybe not on one with floats, but on wheels, I would think you'd need something to counteract gravity and the occasional stiff breeze.

 

 

 

Chris

[StephenCJ]

3 hours ago, dogsbody said:

But nowhere do I see anything that would keep the door open.

Broom handle.

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

7 minutes ago, StephenCJ said:

Broom handle.

Yoda could.

 

[72modeler]

38 minutes ago, Moa said:

Yoda could.

Hmmmm- hold the door open, I will!

Mike

[foresterab]

I checked my photos of the same Norseman dogsbody had already posted pictures of.   While the hinges are visible I do not see anything to prevent the door from slamming back if you were in any kind of air stream.   It appears the same basic set was also on the front door.   I'm guessing this was part of the briefing of "don't open the door unless you want to pay for repairs" talk many pilots still give today.    While I work up in Canada its the same work as the USFS and in some cases the same aircraft work across the border. 

 

In regards to the rails on the back a couple of options come to mind but the initial one is cargo securement - easier to mount a rail for lashing odd ball shaped equipment down than to try to use eyelets in the floor.   There were a lot of Norsemen used on the Alaska highway construction for example where you would flying in men, hack out a bigger strip, fly in small equipment in pieces so it could be reassembled and clear a bigger strip....and eventually get a rough track going for the main crews to follow.   I'm not immediately familiar with the Norseman being used as a parachute aircraft but I know the DeHavilland Beaver was used to drop bags of water before the float system initially pioneered on the Norseman was perfected and is still used today on Twin Otters.   That being said the immediate time period post war had a lot of odd and unusual work going on from parachuting beavers (yes...in Idaho) to aerial seeding to early water bombing trials.     Small plane strips were the method of choice for many operations until they started to get replaced by helicopters.

 

One comment on the interior...the floor in back, if carrying men in western states, most likely had a replaceable plywood floor.  This was due to the caulk boots men would wear in the mountains but they are unfortunately an engineers nightmare for chewing up aircraft floors.    Plastic trays are put on helicopters now and may have sacrificial boot steps to get into a machine...or take the damn boots off.     I did check the other aircraft photos I have for similar transport type machines and unfortunately do not take many pictures of the interior floor or was unable to enter the aircraft.    

 

I'll check into the archives if time allows tomorrow to see if there are any more pictures I can find to help but off memory they are either pre-WW2 RCAF or post war helicopter dominated by far.  

 

foresterab

 

P.S.  Had to laugh the fictional cargo - mail coming in - yes, pay coming in - yes, steak coming in - yes, music - yes.  The seafood order was a bit much as even steak is only a weekly treat :).     But I want to be at that camp when the cook gets to work.

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

1 hour ago, foresterab said:

I checked my photos of the same Norseman dogsbody had already posted pictures of.   While the hinges are visible I do not see anything to prevent the door from slamming back if you were in any kind of air stream.   It appears the same basic set was also on the front door.   I'm guessing this was part of the briefing of "don't open the door unless you want to pay for repairs" talk many pilots still give today.    While I work up in Canada its the same work as the USFS and in some cases the same aircraft work across the border. 

 

In regards to the rails on the back a couple of options come to mind but the initial one is cargo securement - easier to mount a rail for lashing odd ball shaped equipment down than to try to use eyelets in the floor.   There were a lot of Norsemen used on the Alaska highway construction for example where you would flying in men, hack out a bigger strip, fly in small equipment in pieces so it could be reassembled and clear a bigger strip....and eventually get a rough track going for the main crews to follow.   I'm not immediately familiar with the Norseman being used as a parachute aircraft but I know the DeHavilland Beaver was used to drop bags of water before the float system initially pioneered on the Norseman was perfected and is still used today on Twin Otters.   That being said the immediate time period post war had a lot of odd and unusual work going on from parachuting beavers (yes...in Idaho) to aerial seeding to early water bombing trials.     Small plane strips were the method of choice for many operations until they started to get replaced by helicopters.

 

One comment on the interior...the floor in back, if carrying men in western states, most likely had a replaceable plywood floor.  This was due to the caulk boots men would wear in the mountains but they are unfortunately an engineers nightmare for chewing up aircraft floors.    Plastic trays are put on helicopters now and may have sacrificial boot steps to get into a machine...or take the damn boots off.     I did check the other aircraft photos I have for similar transport type machines and unfortunately do not take many pictures of the interior floor or was unable to enter the aircraft.    

 

I'll check into the archives if time allows tomorrow to see if there are any more pictures I can find to help but off memory they are either pre-WW2 RCAF or post war helicopter dominated by far.  

 

foresterab

 

P.S.  Had to laugh the fictional cargo - mail coming in - yes, pay coming in - yes, steak coming in - yes, music - yes.  The seafood order was a bit much as even steak is only a weekly treat :).     But I want to be at that camp when the cook gets to work.

Thanks foresterab for all that info.

Not sure I can put together all those pieces of information in an organized way, but I am not about to obsess with accuracy anyway.

My plan from the beginning for the cabin was a wood floor and sides half way, with a neutral color above that. Those two seats as seen propped in the model photos, and some bulk cargo tied with straps, and that's that.

They did indeed operate dropping jumpers.

Here you will see two photos and a story about US Forest Service Norseman N58691 midway on this PDF:

https://dc.ewu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=smokejumper_mag

 

This somehow became more fun, since I did a small number of jumps when I was 18. Just jumps, though, not smokejumps. But one of them at night, which was particularly interesting.

Cheers

 

[busnproplinerfan]

I just remembered a bit of history on the Norseman's side door. Some aircraft were modifeid for hauling 4x8 plywood sheets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWV4CX94grQ&t=270s

This is a video of Joe McBryan's Norseman  starting at 7:00.

 

[StephenCJ]

Chuck Yeager used a broom handle...  I was about to write Chuck Norris used a broom handle, then I remembered wrong Chuck.

 

In Australian chuck means vomit, spew, ralph, etc.  Why would you name your child in such a way .

Edited June 2, 2020 by StephenCJ

[John Aero]

Does this help?  It appears to me that the access handle would have had a clip to take the outer door handle as it springs back level on the IV.

 

John

[StephenCJ]

There is a hint on the type of cargo this aircraft would carry, snow shoes and boxes.

[John Aero]

Fuel drums as well.

 

John

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

4 hours ago, John Aero said:

Fuel drums as well.

 

John

Always safe to carry on a plane 😁.

But hey, the plane also carries it's own fuel somewhere too.

 

The greatest loss of this build is that there is no restroom.

I will be forced to include a bucket. Speaking of safe cargo.

 

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

6 hours ago, John Aero said:

Does this help?  It appears to me that the access handle would have had a clip to take the outer door handle as it springs back level on the IV.

 

John

 

Thanks, John!

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Related to the effects of gravity on doors (and furniture), here is what happened:

I keep a few models for display in our office space at home, the rest goes into boxes and they are stored.

I committed the obvious mistake of opening the two filing cabinet drawers, full of heavy files, at the same time.

Their combined weight of course tilted the whole thing and those model cases and books collapsed onto the floor.

I just put back all in the cases, together with the pieces that I could find, and left it at that for few days while gathering courage to really look at the damage.

Thanks probably to the cushioned carpet (and a lot of luck), it wasn't that bad. The smaller models suffer no damage, whatsoever (less mass), and the big ones took a small beating.

A tribute to sound building (shamelessly congratulating myself here a bit).

The yellow Bellanca K still needs some rigging and stuttery -that had to be removed due to damage- replaced, but it is now structurally sound again. Another day.

 

Landing gear collapsed:

 

The horizontal tail unglued, dragging the rigging and struts:

 

Repairs:

 

Parts reattached and aligned:

 

Poor Santos Dumont lost his nose (it's not a tail, this is a canard -inaccurately called tail first- design), and Sir George Cayley suffered minor damage and was a bit shaken, but otherwise fine:

 

All repaired back in place:

[RJP]

There are some good close shots of a Norseman in the Warner Bros. 1942 Captains of the Clouds, including operation of the doors front and back.  The machine in question is the prototype CF-AYO. re-registered as CF-HGO for the movie.  Note the early cowling, not the one fitted for the later engine.  The film is technicolor and the Norseman figures largely in the first half or so.

 

It was made mostly in Ontario, North Bay for the bush plane sequences.  The action shifts to BCATP bases in Southern Ontario so there are many Harvards, Yales, Finches and Ansons.  It ends with Hudsons (filmed at Burbank, I think) and a Hurricane from Debert (?)  Something for everybody.

 

The film has been available on DVD and is shown sometimes on the movie channels.

Edited June 2, 2020 by RJP

[dogsbody]

Jumping from a Norseman. We Canadians did it too!

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

6 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

Jumping from a Norseman. We Canadians did it too!

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

No, no with a bed sheet! you have to use a parachute!!!

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Styrene strips are glued inside the door...

 

... Then sanded flat:

 

The liner is glued:

 

To give the impression of the same thickness on the fuselage walls, ribs are shaped and glued...

 

...thus producing the required illusion:

 

In general, we have to thin the plastic for our openings in models, this is the opposite case!