rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, DMC said: but what do I need to know about the cowlings and nacelles? Still figuring it all out, Dennis. The big P&W Double Wasps are 2 banks of 9 cyl The more popular Lodestar seems to be fitted with Wright Cyclones which is a 9 cyl radial. Like a Hudson. Some have a P&W Twin Wasps installation..... These are 2 banks of 7 cyl. You can tell them by the cooling flaps around the cowlings. Both of these are smaller in diameter than the Double Wasps on the PV1. So the nacelles are bigger in diameter too. On top of the wing it shouldn't reach so far back. Under the wing should be smaller too, and uc doors deleted. I'll find some pictures of the 1.72 builds for comparison. Nacelle shape on top of the wing is a pain. I think it will have to be cut out, wing surface repaired and a new smaller nacelle top made. It's gonna get messy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 Ventura nacelle on top.... Lodestar nacelle on top.... .... and underneath, with no doors, As opposed to the Ventura with doors... I have hope that the nacelle shape on the big Revell kit underneath BEFORE the nacelle sides are added may be about the right shape and size to be made into the Lodestar type. But it's only a hunch Have you any more drawings, Dennis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 5 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: There's a proper term for the arrangement that escapes me for a moment..... servo-assisted? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 It's more like "dynamic... something" I think, Moa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, rob Lyttle said: Have you any more drawings, Dennis? Partial Lodestar profile(I think, no gearbdoors) and a pretty good Hudson 3-view. A few good Lodestar nacelle and engine pics. The difference in the nacelles is not that obvious. Not that much trouble to correct: shave them off and plunge new ones. Doesn’t seem to be much that can’t be fixed with a little work. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, DMC said: Doesn’t seem to be much that can’t be fixed with a little work. Dennis That's the spirit 👍😃‼️ I think I'm right in saying that the Hudson engine arrangements are much the same as the Lodestar. The MPM Special hobby Lodestar kit supplies the Hudson kit basically plus the new fuselage and a Tailplane with the separate elevators marked, and the trailing edge extension strips . Same engines (plus the other ones that I used) and cowlings (which I had to modify). So it's fair to say that the engines, cowlings and nacelles are the same. I think I read that something like 70% of Hudson components are on the Lodestar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrfan Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) Revell Ventura nacelle versus Classic Airframe Hudson Edited May 31, 2020 by dcrfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) Just sketching on the Ventura wing top where Id say the nacelle should join, Ticked line is existing line for the PV1 Ventura coming well past the main spar. Edited January 15, 2021 by rob Lyttle Correction 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrfan Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) I've already done a bit. The top wing is Revell Ventura with nacelle forward edge modified just by filling narrower and fitted with spare engine from CA Hudson. By filing I got the forward width the same although I did first reinforce the inner edge as theres not much left of the outer edge. I was not worried about the less the 2mm additional length on Ventura nacelle. I should explain I'm building the model for a large RNZAF Pacific airstrip diorama. not a competition model. I've still got work to do reshaping engine cowling from spare from CA Hudson. This photo shows modifications to underside of Ventura wing. A nacelle exterior detail removed and gap glued up between wing underside and nacelle interior detail. Mounts for undercarriage have not been touched. Edited May 31, 2020 by dcrfan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 Good one, @dcrfan! So that was a fair old chunk of plastic cut from each side of the moulding underneath. This next bit, you may or may not want to act on it..... Now that I've got a wing out for a look, there's a couple of things to sort. Ignore the lines, this one is not for nacelle mods! The flap guide rails on top of the trailing edge extension shouldn't be there. The extension strip was added on TOP of the rails. They're coming off. I didn't know this when I foiled one wing last year. So I removed the foil on the strip and did those too. I'd already done some work on the underside, You can see that the flap has the t.e extension as well. I'm off the opinion that this is wrong ‼️ Having looked at many photos of Lodestars and Venturas I'm convinced that the flap is NOT extended...... It's parallel front and back, just like the Hudson flap. The whole aerofoil cross-section wasn't extended. The modification is just a flat strip attached to the top of the rails. When MPM Special hobby released the Lodestar 1.72 with the Hudson wing and a pair of pe strips to glue on the rails, they got a lot of criticism for "taking a cheap shortcut". In fact, I'm saying that they got it precisely right! So my next step is to take a knife to the flaps and trim the extension off between the rail runners. Which is a bit of a pain because I've already built up the inside of the flap, I had to do the same thing on the Academy Ventura. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 Like this.... So if my rails and rail guides actually fitted into each other, then the flap would close right up. That's a step too far for my plastic bashing, but it'll look OK with the flaps deployed to some extent. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrfan Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Yes I see what you mean. I've missed that. Have read of discussion on this thread which gives the technical background of the need for the extension and how it was done. https://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/26899/1-48-lodestar-revell-ventura Note there were options on the real aircraft. You do have to be careful which pictures you use as at least two Lodestars now on display have been fitted with replacement Ventura wings and now don't have the wing extension. Like this set https://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/20758/lockheed-lodestar-zk-bve-detail Edited June 1, 2020 by dcrfan 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Spent a little time yesterday working on a quick and easy way to furnish a Lodestar’s interior with seats. I decided that something along the lines of the ones in the drawing would do and if I could set up a production line of sorts I could make short work of the whole business and move on to something else. Vacuum forming several seat backs and cushions so I made up several and attempted to vacuum form six in one go. I used .020 styrene which for some reason refused to behave the way it has done previously and all I got was six interconnected forms. I was able to salvage one, however, and made, a prototype?, that will do for a larger, it’s too small, version. I intend on keeping my interior simple. Just enough to show that there’s something in there. Vacuum forming forming can be very wasteful, however, and if it doesn’t work out I’all try something else. Re the nacelles and flaps: i think I’m setting it.....sort of. I’ll spend more time studying your recent lot of pictures. I’m sure it will sink in sooner or later. Apollogies for trespassing on your thread yet again. Back to the Camel Dennis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, DMC said: trespassing On the contrary, all contributions are very welcome ‼️😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just spent a happy hour or two assembling the other wing and foiling it. It's a fair size and area. Then I slotted it onto the wing brace, Big, isn't it..... ⁉️😎⚠️ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Big? 1/48th... the horror, the horror... 😱 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Bigger and better, only 13 more to go. Won’t fuss with them too much as only the headrest will be visible. Hmmm, what about the curtains? Thanks for dropping in (on Rob’s thread) Dennis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 12 hours ago, DMC said: Bigger and better, only 13 more to go I like it a lot, Dennis. Great seat...... But then, you will have seen the ones I made! And sure enough there's not that much to see, even with an astrodome skylight, passenger door and emergency exits open. I mean you can see them and they need to be there, just not much of the intricate details on show. That's without curtains. The Revell building sequence has the main legs going in, and then the nacelles and cowlings being built around them. I'd prefer to leave the legs to later, so I'm just checking that the leg assembly will fit through the nacelle opening. That's the legs assembled. And this is the opening, Pleased to report that it does indeed fit easily.... ..... So I'll leave the legs for later. I've noticed that the wheel well extends further back into the section of nacelle that is attached to the flap. That's not the case with the Lodestar, is it? Anyone come across anything about the Ventura having longer legs? Perhaps related to bigger props for the bigger engines?? Or it may be the kit makers being a bit slack on the details I suppose. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 10 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: I like it a lot, Dennis. Thanks, Rob. I won’t try and the rest in one session, just one or two every couple of days. Not sure about the colour. Back then they were probably a shade of grey. In #35 dcrfan removed material from the sides of the wheel bay. Was this to narrow down the nacelle? Re the prop: apparently a bigger prop was needed for the P&Ws but clearance was a problem so the Ventura had paddle bladed props rather than larger diameter ones. (Bet you knew that) So kit undercarriage legs are probably ok. The kit props are actually more suitable for a Lodestar. For which hooray 😃. Cheers Dennis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 9 hours ago, DMC said: In #35 dcrfan removed material from the sides of the wheel bay. Was this to narrow down the nacelle? I'd say Yes on that. Further to what I said about longer uc legs, I don't think this is the case. Got to remember that the Ventura nacelle fully encloses the retracted wheel and the doors close, but the Hudson and Lodestar nacelle still have half a wheel and tyre protruding when the gear is up. So with this in mind, plus the extra size of the big Double Wasps on the Ventura, it stands to reason that the nacelles are bigger and deeper. And it's starting to come across visually at this stage..... Other things to note here, The bomb aiming window is blended and foiled, but it's looking quite boxy under the nose. Because the window has to be flat for good aiming, Lockheed may have changed the profile of the area. Looks to me like some reshaping would be required to produce the Lodestar curvy shape here.. Also the 3 signal lights need to go and the big Reinforcement along the middle of the bay doors. The doors can be used OK to panel in the bay area, but there is a slight bulge moulded into them that needs sanding off. Presumably a little bit of extra room was required for a particular bomb load.? The Double Wasps are represented like this.... No doubt that some modellers find this sort of thing disappointing and would prefer many separate parts and construction. To be honest, I'm OK with it. By the time the cowling is on and you're peering in the front, it's good enough for me. Ignition wires and sparkplugs could be added if you like that kind of thing, oil pipes and breathers etc, but if you go down that road or installing exotic aftermarket bling, then you have to start opening service panels to show the hard work and expensive extras, or face the heartache of burying it all for ever in the plastic. Me....? I like 'em! I got a little bit of separation and flare on the cooling Gills, thinned the edges and as you can see I've foiled one ready to go But as DMC noted, the props for this one could do with being a bit more paddle shaped. 😎 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 Progress on the 2nd engine, nacelle and cowling foiled up and a bit of work on the cooling Gills. And assembled to the wing. With the wings slotted into position, it all starts to take the shape of a Lockheed Twin. The exhaust outlets received a little attention ...... in that I drilled the pipe opening and then what remained of the exit end of the part got painted black to just leave the rim of the oval pipe to highlight. Rather than peeling sections of foil to expose plastic, I used ca to glue them on, and a little patch of foil over the bulge should finish the job. I'm thinking about covering the cockpit roof at the front to get the real Lockheed look. The framing is still visible on the roof moulding and that's OK on this one as it's a madeover PV1. But it's another thing that will need attention for a Lodestar conversion Starting to get some nice reflections going on 😎 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Nice work! I think one day we will see you in the news as the guy that went berserk and started metal-foiling his mailbox, house, dog, plants, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 I am a big fan of the sculptor Christo, who has sadly just died.. Remember him wrapping up various things..... Buildings and bridges etc? Maybe that's my influence 🎁✨😇 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, rob Lyttle said: I am a big fan of the sculptor Christo, who has sadly just died.. Remember him wrapping up various things..... Buildings and bridges etc? Maybe that's my influence 🎁✨😇 I clearly remember the Reichstag wrapped. Are you trying to sneak in that you may be an artist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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