Pushing the Borders, a Messerschmitt Me 209 V-5 in 1/72

[109 fan]

In my quest for a complete 109 collection, I've wondered where should I begin (seems simple enough), but more importantly, where should it end? What is the ultimate 109?  Where's the right bookend? In wartime use it would be the K-4. But some historians have found that Messerchmitt produced some prototypes using a four blade prop. So perhaps the mythical Bf 109 K-14 would be the terminus. But how about wartime, or even pre-war derivatives should be included: the Bf 209 V-1 racer, also known deceptively as the Bf 109 R. How about the other 209s or 309s. Maybe the BV 155, which was an extrapolation of the Me 155 shipboard project. Then there are the post war Avias and Hispanos. The mind boggles! 

 

Anyway, it's time the bring this one out of the hanger. For years I've wanted a good Me 209 V-5 in the lineup. There have been attempts from various manufacturers; Huma (what were they thinking), Airmodel vacform, Kora, even a privately manufactured resin kit from the iron curtain days. I have all of these and have even started a few of them. But none seemed to capture the essence of the bird. This may be because only one photo of the plane exists.

 

9B648150-CF33-4459-A9DD-EBD2AB64DF23_4_5005_c by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

Important details are cleverly hidden by the wing in this photo. My references say this prototype was converted from a Bf 109 G-5 and was powered by a DB 603 engine. Hmmm, the DB 605 D engine had a DB 603 supercharger. This necessitated the characteristic refined bulges of the 109 G-5/AS through K-4 airframes.  I have also found some wartime drawings the seem to support the refined cowling shape. So why not start with a Fine Molds 109 G-10? Now we're getting somewhere. Here is the first mockup.

 

C9369B8C-C155-4FCE-9455-5002B2D71C23_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

 

I mentioned the privately made resin model. This is it at the point I abandoned its construction.

 

42FC33A8-0467-4FD2-96DD-3A8A755C7C47_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

Not bad, but it is crude in some aspects and some shapes don't look right. Particularly, the nose looks small. But how about vacuforming over it to give some increased diameter as well as making thin cowl flaps? Seems to work!

 

The prototype was apparently unarmed, so I superglued some Evergreen rod in the cowl gun troughs and sanded them flush.

 

1B02001B-1840-437C-9301-2314CED1878E_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

 

Since this plane was initially a G-5, I used the excellent Aires cockpit set. I won't bore you with the details, but it looks like this.

 

3F705CD7-C753-453E-A124-8827C4AC6E06_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

I tricked it out with some Eduard pre-painted PE, including the instrument panel, belts and oxygen regulator.

 

The fuselage appears to have some interesting ductwork on the lower cowl. Again, the single photo just gives the barest information as to its shape. Eventually, I decided to vacuform the bump over some shaped styrene. This would be faired in with epoxy putty The forward fuselage still looked a bit thin to me, so I angled the forward part of the lower separate cowl piece downward and added some sheet plastic cut at an angle to compensate at the exhaust cutouts. If you can avoid it, don't mess with geometry. Change one angle here, and you have to adjust many more there.

 

3C2DDF0B-8A22-4BD9-8525-7C022C647C46_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

 

D5F128FA-3A88-4AF7-9C97-2E35A70A1378_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

993C2C9D-755B-4F14-AE43-1386B26A6964_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

As shown in this photo the bump didn't extend far enough forward, so out cant the poxy putty, sandpaper, primer (you know the drill).

 

 

2F11B34B-0551-4E24-8C10-D5FCAE9FF994_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

Now on the the difficult areas. What to do about the extended wings, tailplanes and vertical stab? The horizontals were simply spliced FM parts, with the elevators separated. The fin could have been formed from laminated sheet plastic, but I decided to slice it from the Hume kit and do the necessary reshaping. I'm not sure this was easier.

 

The wings presented a greater problem. They were longer in span the the typical 109 and the landing gear retracted inwards. At first modifying the Fine Molds wing seemed possible, but eventually I caved and decided to use the Huma parts. These presented their own challenge since they are too thin for the FM wing roots and the wheel wells need reshaping. First I cut off the flaps and slats. When you're anticipating a challenging wing fit, it's best to reduct the mating area. Lowered flaps accomplish this. To widen the wing leading edge I inserted a wedge of .040" styrene until it had the proper shape. The resulting gap could be filled in a number of ways, but the idea struck me to use a piece of stretched sprue. It could be tapered to fit well and cut down on the amount of gap filling superglue needed to fill the hole. Several applications of superglue could have done the job, but you run the risk of bubbles. 

 

 

A7A13D43-AB5D-4537-9DD0-CD5DE1F2CECD_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

The wheel wells are just cutouts in the lower wing that had to be boxed in. I used .005" plastic card that was embossed using a Rosie The Reveter tool. If you press hard enough on the thin plastic, you'll get a nice raised rivet effect on the reverse side.

 

 

18C07CDC-E02E-4496-818D-D380BCEC685E_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

This was the most tedious part of the build so far; .005" styrene has all of the tendencies of a spring, particularly when you've tried to pre-curve it using a paint brush handle. With the least provocation it will leap into the 8th dimension using quantum mechanics. This is even more frustrating after you've sanded, riveted, curled and cut the part to the point that you think that THIS one might just fit. Sproinggg! Glad it's done.

 

 

CD9841BF-092F-449B-9570-9D543B4D2D9B by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

The model is further along tan this, but Tapatalk is telling me that I've reached the maximum amount of stuff for one posting. More in part 2. Thanks for following along.

Edited May 25, 2020 by 109 fan

[Graham Boak]

I'm not convinced about the K-14 story but there was a 4-blade prop developed for the L.

 

One key point is that the 209 wing was a fairly complete new design, despite its apparent similarity.  It has the appearance of a 109 wing but with a smidgen of sweepback and a slightly greater span.  It was basically the same wing used on the 309 and the carrier 155, possibly even the 109H.  So whether any of these should count as "109"s or not becomes a bit theological.  But then the 209 fighter bears no resemblance to the original 209 anyway.

[SafetyDad]

Very nice work so far. 

Following with interest. Have you got a good 4 view drawing to work from?

 

SD

[Marklo]

Lovely work I always thought the 209 had the same nose as the 190D which is why my attempts in the distant past might not have looked quite right.
 

I think the true book ends for the 109 would be the ha111s and the avia 99 and 199 although they are arguably G variants. But they flew in a number if airforces including the Israeli Air Force so they add a bit more variety to the type ( a possibly a certain irony as well)

 

Ypu could always build the other 209, the 309 or the BV155.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Marklo

[Graham Boak]

I do feel that the BV155 has moved too far from the 109 line, with no common parts at all.  But the Me155 was/would have been a G-5 fuselage with a 209 wing and tail, plus arrester hook.

 

The Me209V-6 became the 209HV-1 and then, from some accounts, the Bf109H that was actually tried in service.  So there's a couple of possibilities there.

[SafetyDad]

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

Lovely work I always thought the 209 had the same nose as the 190D which is why my attempts in the distant past might not have looked quite right.
 

The 209 V6 (as opposed to the V5 here) used a Jumo 213 as the DB engines were in short supply. Not saying the nose is the same, but it looks similar on the plans.

 

I remember many many years ago at a Tyneside Model Show where one exhibitor had modelled the V6 using a mix of (old) Revell 109G and Fw 190D parts. He chose to show the prototype abandoned with a covering of snow. 

 

Now, back to the matter in hand

 

SD

[Graham Boak]

A sensible playing the odds for Messerschmitt, but clearly not the history of the V6 that I've read.

[Herb]

Here's a nice looking drawing I've collected for the 209 V-5.

I say "nice looking" as I've no idea if it's accurate at all, or even where it's from... for what it's worth...

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Herb

[Marklo]

You have to admit though, even if it’s inaccurate it’s a good looking machine.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Marklo

[SafetyDad]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

A sensible playing the odds for Messerschmitt, but clearly not the history of the V6 that I've read.

If you're referring to my post about the V6, the source for this is Hitchcock's  1975 'Messerschmitt 109 Gallery' from Monogram Publications  . It's an elderly source I freely concede, but Hitchcock has detailed information and drawings about 109 genesis (and on into Me 155 and BV 155) that have generally stood the test of time. 

 

Add to which that these 209 prototypes evolved rapidly, with multiple changes of configuration (at least 3 different tail/rudder arrangements for the V5 for example).

That said, if the information I offered has been superceded, or you have further information to add, I'm keen to learn. 

 

SD

[SafetyDad]

1 hour ago, Herb said:

Here's a nice looking drawing I've collected for the 209 V-5.

I say "nice looking" as I've no idea if it's accurate at all, or even where it's from... for what it's worth...

 

 

It's from a Polish publication authored by Robert Michulec  'Messerschmitt Me 109 cz 3  Me 209-609 Projekty, Wersje Pochodne: Czeskie/Hispanskie' (2000) AJ Press Gdansk. I have a copy in front of me. I considered posting this plan earlier in the thread, but I'm wary of copyright problems (unlike pictures which can be argued to form part of a larger work, plans can be considered as copyrightable work in their own right here in the UK).

 

The AJ press publications are generally well thought of, so the plans may be as good as you get.

 

SD

Edited May 26, 2020 by SafetyDad

[Marklo]

I think a lot of the ‘history’ of German late war aircraft development got hideously messed up during the fifties and sixties and it’s very very hard to figure out the facts, I’ve read a number of books on the subject and they are all somewhat contradictory.

 

That said on a semi related topic I recently read one book on German secret weapons that claimed they had tested tactical level nuclear weapon, which while plausible, doesn’t seem factual, large pinch of salt required.

[Graham Boak]

Not sure I can point to a single source, but it stems from following threads on the 109H variant over the years, and the history is still not completely clear.  The Frenchman Jean-Claude Mermot has been perhaps the main researcher, starting with a view of what is now recognised as a prototype with a G-5 fuselage and the DB628 engine (forward supercharger around the nose), in a fairly old Fanatique de l"Aviation.  He is responsible for recognising and categorising the different types of late cowlings on 109 and this has been published both in French and in English by MMP.  It would help perhaps if one or more of the high-altitude prototypes hadn't been destroyed in a US bombing raid that also seems to have affected the records.  You may have noticed that some published plans - mainly the older ones - show 109 outer wings whereas others show 209.  I've never quite understood why so many representations show the H without the engine installation of a high-altitude variant of the engine.  It would not surprise me at all to learn that the 209V6 was indeed initially planned with the Jumo 213 (the engines wee intended to be readily interchangeable on designs), and then repurposed as it became clearer to all that there was no future for the standard fighter.   Not least because, as you say, there were not enough DB603s to go around, but also because Messerschmitt was seen as having more important fish to fry - namely the 262. 

 

I did get to read The 109 Gallery but not alas to own a copy.  Definitely one that got away.  However I did get copies of the Monogram booklets on the late 109s and the 155 programme, plus their book on the Ta152, the last also covering much of the Messerschmitt competition.  All of which I would strongly recommend, if you don't already have them.  Read together with the work of JCM they do produce a not-quite-consistent tale of the high-altitude developments, from which a patchwork history can be seen, if sometimes dimly.

 

PS  As for the drawings, they do generally look good but like all 109 drawings (that I've seen) there is just not enough width underneath for the V-12's widely spaced cylinder heads.  The 109 (and hence 209 too) has to be as wide on the bottom as the Spitfire, Mustang and Hurricane actually were on the top- as opposed to many model representations especially of the last.  If you think I am exaggerating look for photos with the bottom cowling swung open... it is wide and flat.  As to whether they are any more accurate than the cruder earlier drawings in Green or Hitchcock  I rather doubt.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Graham Boak

[SafetyDad]

That's very helpful Graham, thanks.

 

I'm aware of Jean-Claud Mermet's work on late war 109 cowl shapes - I have a copy of the Luftwaffe Verband No 12 (Jan 1998) with his drawings. Like you, I'm fascinated by the Bf 109H (I've also read accounts of it serving operationally, with at least one reconnaissance flight over Portsmouth).  I would agree with you about the engine for the H - I have the Alley Cat conversion in 1/32 and it seems totally inappropriate to base this on a G-6 model. I will use a Revell Erla G-10 as my base.

 

Yes the Monogram publications were the business back in the day. I ordered everything they published in the 1980s. I missed the initial issues when they came out, so it took me 20 years to amass a complete set of the 24 Monogram Close-Ups but I got there. It almost seemed like a loss to finally complete the set . My 109 Gallery came from the USA via eBay. 

 

I was careful in my appraisal of the drawings - I'm not saying that they are totally accurate, just that they may be the best we have. I take your point about the inverted V engine shape, and its impact on the fuselage width.  

 

Back on thread - it seems the 4 view published above is some help to Barry (with the caveats already highlighted, but hey, it's modelling so we do our best with sometimes limited information).

 

I'm following with great interest Barry - you're doing a good job! 

 

SD

Edited May 26, 2020 by SafetyDad
fat fingers!

[Graham Boak]

Dunno about flying over Portsmouth, but there is a good account of the H in service in https://falkeeins.blogspot.com/.  It may take a bit of digging out, sorry about that, but lots of good stuff here.  Easy to get distracted.

[109 fan]

Thanks for the comments and compliments, gents. Herb, those are the drawings I've been using. I also used drawings from the same Michulec book for my interpretation (mostly) of the Me 209 H V-1, which was posted on this site about a year go. This book:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Projects-Luftwaffe-Blohm-Close/dp/1911658328/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=BV+155&qid=1590534314&s=books&sr=1-1

 

also has some valuable information and drawings of the 209. I am not following the drawings religiously, but have also taken measurements from the photo. I have treasured Hitchcock's '09 Gallery since it was first published. It still provides enjoyment 45 years after its debut. Some points have been long superseded, such as confusing the Bf 109 G-14 with the G-10. But it was ground breaking at the time. Thomas was one of the first researchers to correctly identify the Bf 109 K features. I believe he first published them in a British magazine (Modelworld?). In any event, we're all speculating and using what talents we have to express these almost mythical birds in plastic.

[Graham Boak]

I first saw the "refined cowl" in an IPMS magazine, probably the USQuarterly.  The writer was George -and that is where memory fails - Copp?  Some years before Modelaid I feel, which was surely was later than The 109 Gallery?  Obviously we all have a first revelation, but I do believe that this one was the first anywhere, despite not being certain just where it was!  Possibly Random Thoughts from Canadian IPMS?   That side of the Pond, anyway.

[109 fan]

George Hopp was on this topic early in Random Thoughts. The First reference I recall of the refined cowl was in a German magazine, perhaps Model Fan, which IIRC predated all of the others.

[AaCee26]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:22 AM, 109 fan said:

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9B648150-CF33-4459-A9DD-EBD2AB64DF23_4_5005_c by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

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2F11B34B-0551-4E24-8C10-D5FCAE9FF994_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr<clip>

Hi Barry,

 

Interesting built and thoughts!

 

But comparing to the photo of the real plane to youe model it loooks that there is difference between the bulge under cowling. In real it looks like to end about 2/3 of the exhaust stacks? What do you think?

 

2 hours ago, 109 fan said:

George Hopp was on this topic early in Random Thoughts. The First reference I recall of the refined cowl was in a German magazine, perhaps Model Fan, which IIRC predated all of the others.

 

Looking from John R. Beaman's "Last of the Eagles" from 1976 he tells that Mr. Hopp's RT article was published in 1969.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

[109 fan]

Interesting observation, AaCee, but note that the entire panel, including the exhausts, is painted black. It carries back beyond the end of the exhausts. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[AdrianMF]

Never knew about this cowling variation - very interesting. 

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Troy Smith]

On 26/05/2020 at 19:44, SafetyDad said:

 

 

Yes the Monogram publications were the business back in the day. I ordered everything they published in the 1980s. I missed the initial issues when they came out, so it took me 20 years to amass a complete set of the 24 Monogram Close-Ups but I got there

I got the Bf109G part 2 and the Bf109K book back then, which along with Last of the Eagles I studied very carefully ...

the whole of the Monogram Close Up series are available here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Monogram-Close-up

useful for quoting relevant bits.

[AaCee26]

18 hours ago, 109 fan said:

Interesting observation, AaCee, but note that the entire panel, including the exhausts, is painted black. It carries back beyond the end of the exhausts. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Hi Barry,

 

Well, as I'm stubborn I try to re-formulate my wording: Compare the length of the bulge to the distance between the rear end of the round front ring and wing leading edge. Look also the drawing on message #8.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

[109 fan]

When you build your's. AaCee, you'll have to keep that in mind.

 

Work continues, but slowly. Here is the underside showing more riveting and priming.

3CAEA949-B0A7-48C8-A65D-380F8306BC05_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr


Then a few tries at. a wing jig. The first one left much to be desired. The wing dihedral couldn't be adjusted sufficiently.

EA93D31D-EBA7-4EAD-8C73-33229527A9DE_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

I then went to an elevated structure made from .040" plastic card. This allowed much better adjustment of each wing to insure alignment.


A5C7A98F-AF8C-439A-9521-266606D28152_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr


A7CD72CE-DE50-421C-8124-14CB1CF96F9B_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr


Next up will be filling in and reinforcing with five minute epoxy.

Edited May 31, 2020 by 109 fan

[109 fan]

A small update tonight. I've attached the wings and smoothed the joints with 5-minute epoxy. The excess was removed with a Q-tip dampened with denatured alcohol. Then the flaps were installed using the same process. The joints have been spot checked with Gunze Mr. Surfacer 1000. 

 

F1A9D6F0-E397-4453-8911-92F04800BF86_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

 

C4B0324B-16FE-4D8F-ACD8-31B3FB047FDF_1_201_a by Barry Numerick, on Flickr

 

 

Just a few more items to attach then it will be on to painting.