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Brush painting - What am I doing wrong


nheather

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Brush painting, not airbrush.

 

Typically, I do a lot of historical wargaming figures, which include all eras, so plenty of bright light colours.

 

I’m told that many light coats is better than fewer heavy coats so I try to follow that.

 

I watch videos and see the presenters lay down a couple of coats that cover really well.

 

But when I try it, even using the exact paint in the example, I find that I am laying coat after coat without appearing to get anywhere.  I’m not over thinning, this is even straight from the bottle.

 

Sometimes I feel like I am painting a raspberry flavoured tea hoping to end up with a vibrant red.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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Yes, I realise I am being a bit vague.

 

It comes from watching youtube videos, usually Warhammer, which I have a minor interest in, but it also applies to historic wargaming figures before the 20th century.

 

In such videos the painter will have a figure primed in black.

 

They will advise to thin paints rather than to paint straight from the bottle to get good flow and a smooth finish.

 

They will then say that colours like white, yellow and red are particularly difficult and it is best to use two or more thin coats than trying to cover in one coat.

 

All makes perfect sense so far.

 

They then brush on the first coat of yellow on top of black primer.

 

Sure it needs another coat but with a single swipe of the brush using thinned paint he has a pretty strong finish.  Sure it isn’t perfectly covered, but they add a second coat and it looks perfect to me.  They say that you might want to add a third coat but in this case two is good enough.
 

This is where I get confused.  I try the same thing, same paint expected similar results.  My first coat looks like black that has been faintly smudged with yellow.  The second coat not much better and so on.  I may have to apply between six and ten coats to get the opacity that they achieved with two.  And by then, because of the number of coats my finish is looking far from smooth.

 

My paint is fully mixed, I’ve not thinned it any more than they did.  I can’t see the difference.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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Have you tried a primer before you paint?

Some colours like white, Yellow, red can be hard to paint and fill properly; more coats may be required.

I'm sure you will know what brushes to use for different things, that can be important too.

I brush enamel paints, always have, and some of those can be hard to work with, some needing more than three coats which can end up losing markings and panel lines. I did try acrylics too but wasnt very happy with them. Its always better sticking to what you know and only experimenting with other things on less important 'test' pieces.

Matt and satin always cover well, and can be used to prime for a second coat using gloss. but even they may need a primer before settling into finish coats. I prefer enamel and have stuck to using them.

Sorry if this is like preaching to the converted.

Edited by Markh-75
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After 25 years of using black undercoat and having similar issues to you, which I lived with because the black created shadows and depth, I changed to a white undercoat. I give this a thin black wash before starting to paint the uniform colours. Now the brighter colours especially reds, pale blues and yellows are more vibrant but the wash still give the shadow effect simply and helps to delineate the extent of the colours.

 

I also use the Citadel contrast paints for the main uniform colours which seem to give a much stronger effect with much less effort, Whilst I am happy to put a lot of effort into individual figures my current army build is about 430 28mm figures, if I didn't go for effect rather than absolute they would never reach the table.

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6 hours ago, Markh-75 said:

Have you tried a primer before you paint?

Some colours like white, Yellow, red can be hard to paint and fill properly; more coats may be required.

I'm sure you will know what brushes to use for different things, that can be important too.

I brush enamel paints, always have, and some of those can be hard to work with, some needing more than three coats which can end up losing markings and panel lines. I did try acrylics too but wasnt very happy with them. Its always better sticking to what you know and only experimenting with other things on less important 'test' pieces.

Matt and satin always cover well, and can be used to prime for a second coat using gloss. but even they may need a primer before settling into finish coats. I prefer enamel and have stuck to using them.

Sorry if this is like preaching to the converted.

Yes, sort of.  I understand how it can be made easier.

 

It just that when I watch videos, they seem to get much better coverage than I do even if I use the same products as in the video.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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It can depend on the paint too; if i use humbrol it can be hit and miss, the paint can be thick and gloopy (needs thinning), or just thin, of late i have been ordering paints by Colourcoats (by Sovereign Hobbies, many here recommend them, including Moi), or Xtracolour by Hannants because i find these to be consistent but humbrol can be inconsistent in both fill and of colour and in fact they have discontinued a few of their colours; colours i needed for US Navy kits.

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13 minutes ago, Markh-75 said:

It can depend on the paint too; if i use humbrol it can be hit and miss, the paint can be thick and gloopy (needs thinning), or just thin, of late i have been ordering paints by Colourcoats (by Sovereign Hobbies, many here recommend them, including Moi), or Xtracolour by Hannants because i find these to be consistent but humbrol can be inconsistent in both fill and of colour and in fact they have discontinued a few of their colours; colours i needed for US Navy kits.

Mostly my issues are painting whites, yellows, reds, blues of uniforms.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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There's several things that are probably working together here.

 

I would guess you are using waterbased acrylics like citadel, vallejo (not model color!), army painter and the likes.

These need to be shaken like crazy. And I mean crazy crazy. I highly suggest dropping a small nut or bearing-ball into the bottles and then shake it, baby. If you really can't get anywhere try sticking the bottle to the blade of a reciprocating saw with generous amounts of tape and let it rattle for a few minutes.

If you have paint-pots you can try using a toothpick to take up some pigment from the bottom without stirring or shaking first. A friend of mine let his paints deliberately dry out quite a bit to a paste like thicknes... Drop a blob on your palette and start thinning from there. With dropper bottles you can try storing an offending one upside down, so the slugde settles in the dropper and comes out first ( never did that, but worth a try).

Now that you have access to the real pigments, the next step is thinning. First I'd try with pure paint. If you get brushstrokes or an obviously thick coverage thin it. But very, very slowly - add your thinning medium of choice one drop at a time or even a brushtip at a time. Try again, until you find your perfect consistency. There's several variables, again. If you use tap water from a cup, half a drop of dishwashing liquid into that cup helps to release surface tension, thus giving you a better flow of paint, helping against brushstrokes. If it runs into every nook and won't stay on the surface there's two possibilities: Paint overthinned and probably underground too smooth. I tend to thin to about the consistency I need with water and add a bit of matte medium and sometimes glaze medium.

Next call would be primer. Primer is not for covering the whole model evenly, it is to provide some theeth. Put on too much and you receive a glossy mess without any detail left. With sprayprimer only a dusting is needed and suggested. That probably won't be your problem. I tend to brush-prime black with Vallejo surface primer. I know that stuff isn't really loved by many, but for me it's perfect, as it combines priming and basecoting in one step. Plus it shrinks like crazy, so you can slop it on heavily without losing detail. The surface is smooth, but not too smooth - perfect for even layers. Sorastro has a great video on using this stuff on youtube. To get you started you can experiment with spray primer. Give the miniature a dust coat, so you get a really rough surface (don't mind the coverage - that's what your paint is for!). With these teeth the paint won't flow even when it's slightly too thin.

On to brushes. I cannot paint evenly with synthetic brushes, but that maybe just me. Price is not a sign of quality. The form, stiffness and volume of the brush matter. Winsor & Newton Series 7 (standard - not the short ones!) are perfect, but expensive. You can get decent cheap brushes in hobby stores.

You probably use a too small brush. What you want is a larger one with a nice belly to hold up some amount of paint. You don't need small brushes for nothing, what you really need is a sharp tip. So take care it stays sharp. Use brush soap after every painting session.

 

If you still have problems, treat yourself to a single pot of high end artist airbrush paint like Schmincke Aero Color. Make sure it's an opaque one. Practice with this color - it takes away the huge variable of thinning as it can be brushpainted straight from the pot.

 

Black undercoats and bright colours are a poor combination. If you think you NEED black, give your bright colours a basecoat with a color that covers evenly with a single layer. Usually a very bright grey with the slightest hint of blue will work very well - Vallejo Ghost grey and vallejo wolf grey come to mind.

 

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