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BF109 G-10 late war scheme?


Werdna
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Morning all..

 

Picked up a Revell 1/48 G-10 - fairly basic kit, but it cost peanuts, so I can spend some of what I saved on a decal set, maybe.  Can someone recommend a nice, interesting late-war scheme and decal set for the G-10?  The kit scheme is ok, but if there's anything else out there I'd be interested..

 

thanks :)

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If you like yellow on your 109s, there's "White 11 - Rosemarie" which I've always found to be a nice iconic late war Eastern front scheme (top one in this picture). Can't find it on a decal sheet though, maybe you'll have some luck now you know what to look for.

 

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I'm also a big fan of this "Black 12" as it's a fascinating patchwork of different colours on different sections, using two different shades of RLM 76 then RLM 75, 77 and 83, even a bit of RLM 81, and bare metal underwing panels and yellow markings to boot! You'd need to ignore the fact it's a recon variant though.

 

Decal set here, but sadly out of stock: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/OWLS7238?result-token=47mRT

 

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If you prefer Wester front "Reichsverteidigung" markings, then you can try to find one of the markings that Eduard includes in their Regensburg boxing, but you need to be aware these aircraft had small wing bulges so you wold need to ignore the large bulge parts in the Revell kit and scratch build the small ones.

 

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It's also not much of a stretch to build it as a G-6/AS or G-14/AS (both small bulges again), or even a K-4, which opens up a whole bunch of other nice marking options.

 

For example I really like this G-14/AS of JG53 that took part in Operation Bodenplatte, but decals for it are hard to find. I used this (go all the way to the bottom of the page): https://www.luftfahrtverlag-start.com/decals/

 

 

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For some reason a lot of these G-10s are hard to find as their own decals, but K-4s are plentiful.

 

Some more G-10s here:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/EXED72006?result-token=47mRT

 

This set has a bit of each version:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AIMS72D029?result-token=DKyjP

 

Some nice K-4s:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/EAG72062?result-token=DKyjP

 

 

 

Edited by Vlad
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Wow, thanks Vlad - that's a fantastic choice there, much appreciated :)  I love the 'black 12' colours, so may go for that as a first choice...

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Oops! I misread 1:48 as 1:72. 🤪

 

You're in luck, Owl set for Black 12 in 1/48 is in stock and very cheap (hopefully doesn't reflect on its quality). Ignore their painting instructions.

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/OWLS4838?result-token=Teh3T

 

There's also this set that includes both Rosemarie and Black 12, if you feel like stocking up for another:

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AVN4003?result-token=Teh3T

 

That Hungarian "Yellow 12" is nice too.

 

Unfortunately the Revell 1:48 kit has the bulges moulded into the upper wings, so it would not be easy to make a small bulge variant. But with the scheme you're leaning towards, that isn't relevant.

 

Here's some more reference material for you:

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2016/galleries/bf109g10r2tu_1.htm

 

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Edited by Vlad
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Top man Vlad - thanks!  Looks like the individual '5F+12' set was out of stock, but I bought the Avalon set, which also includes it.  That's exactly the kind of scheme I was looking for and the colour reference pic is just the icing on the cake :)

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1 minute ago, Werdna said:

Top man Vlad - thanks!  Looks like the individual '5F+12' set was out of stock, but I bought the Avalon set, which also includes it.  That's exactly the kind of scheme I was looking for and the colour reference pic is just the icing on the cake :)i

I'd not trust the profile posted.  There is a lot of speculation on late war colours, IIRC this is one of the Diana built planes, with 75/82 uppers over 76.  There are two more period color shots of this plane as well. I'll try to get to my JaPo book later, which is the best guide on the subject that I know of. Long out of print buts pdf are available if search. 

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Thanks Troy - I'd be interested to see what you can turn up on it.  I was hoping to give my bottle of the fabled 'RLM84' a run out.. ;)  (can of worms, I know)

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Although you have already opted for a version I would like to mention Montex Mask. They make very good masking sets for canopy and all insignia in their super mask or even KAM series (the latter includes metal gun and pitot tubes).

Lots of different a/c versions for the G-10 available. And you need the canopy masks anyway. You can also use only the crosses from Montex and decals for the rest. Sprayed on markings will always look better and they will not silver either.

 

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Hasegawa G-10 and K-4 in 1/48. Only walkways and stencils are decals.

 

Volker

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Thanks Volker :)  I completely agree about masks.  My last completed kit (109 F-4) had a paint finish that I was fairly happy with, but the decals still looked like......decals!  Masking could be the way to go, and if there is a set for the Revell kit, I will certainly try that too.  Looking forward to the experimentation ;)

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The masking set does not have to be made for the Revell kit. The Montex sets are mostly for the Hasegawa kits, they will be ok for you.

 

Volker

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3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

I'd not trust the profile posted.  There is a lot of speculation on late war colours, IIRC this is one of the Diana built planes, with 75/82 uppers over 76.  There are two more period color shots of this plane as well. I'll try to get to my JaPo book later, which is the best guide on the subject that I know of. Long out of print buts pdf are available if search. 

The profile/scheme is from the MMP book, granted if your reference is better I am happy to stand corrected but the scheme is nevertheless attractive and in my opinion supported by the colour photos of the aircraft (with the usual caveats about interpreting these).

 

In any case shouldn't the upper green be RLM 83? The MMP book is odd in my opinion since they have 82 as darker than 83 when basically everything else I've seen has them the other way around.

 

@Werdna do you use decal setting solution?

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Beware of the terminology for the 81/82/83 series, as this was misunderstood initially and many sources still quote the earlier.  I've just done a quick look at the Kiirchoff chips in Ken Merrick's work (still the latest and best IMO but I'm sure Ullmann's book agrees) and 82 is the lightest colour.  He has 81 as the brown, 82 as an olive green, and 83 as a dark green.  As you probably know, none of them were actually named.

 

PS Agree that the MMS book is very good.

Edited by Graham Boak
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34 minutes ago, Vlad said:

 

@Werdna do you use decal setting solution?

No, that's one thing I have yet to try, but I hear many different opinions of those who have tried various brands with different levels of success.  Masking - at least for the principal markings - sounds like a worthwhile exercise though..

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33 minutes ago, Werdna said:

No, that's one thing I have yet to try, but I hear many different opinions of those who have tried various brands with different levels of success.  Masking - at least for the principal markings - sounds like a worthwhile exercise though..

 It would be a worthwhile exercies. I've considered it, but as a brush painter I struggle to mask without getting a raised edge when I paint and remove the tape so it may not give me ideal results. But a bottle of Humbrol DecalFix is also quite cheap and could be a worthwhile exercise too. It's not perfect every time, depends on the thickness/quality of the decals, but it's good enough for me.

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I'm not sure how important this is in the vast scheme of Bf109's but years ago I built the 1/32 Hasegawa G-10 as yellow 2 above from the Eagle Cal sheet. Roll on the years and with new research it seems it's probably an Erla built G-10 which doesn't have the bulges under the nose and also I think the oil radiator was wider and not as deep as well. It wouldn't take much to sand off the nose lumps on a 1/48 kit if you wanted to do that scheme. I am still deciding whether to strip my G-10 and do another scheme or just leave it. None of the regular people around me would know the difference anyway.

TRF

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4 hours ago, fastterry said:

I'm not sure how important this is in the vast scheme of Bf109's but years ago I built the 1/32 Hasegawa G-10 as yellow 2 above from the Eagle Cal sheet. Roll on the years and with new research it seems it's probably an Erla built G-10 which doesn't have the bulges under the nose and also I think the oil radiator was wider and not as deep as well. It wouldn't take much to sand off the nose lumps on a 1/48 kit if you wanted to do that scheme. I am still deciding whether to strip my G-10 and do another scheme or just leave it. None of the regular people around me would know the difference anyway.

TRF

You're missing the most crucial difference, that Erla G-10s had a flat square panel fairing the widened cowling on the port side only, under the windscreen, not the sweeping curve. As for the bulges under the nose, simply sanding them off would also not be correct. The bigger engine still needed to fit, but Erla changed the shape of the entire lower cowling to accommodate it more seamlessly, hence no obvious bulges. You'd be better off surrounding the bulges in filler and trying to get a smooth shape in that area without decreasing the thickness.

 

Or you can just buy Revell's new 1/32 Erla G-10 if that's your scale. There are also resin conversion sets. In 1/48, Eduard provides an Erla G-10 out of the box. In 1/72 the new AZ kit comes closest but falls a bit short.

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I've always really liked the option of White 2 as seen on Eduard's decal sheet for their MTT Regensburg kit, seen here:

 

But I've read that this aircraft was actually a different variant than the G-10 version that Eduard provides here... does anyone know more?

 

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22 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 There are two more period color shots of this plane as well. I'll try to get to my JaPo book later, which is the best guide on the subject that I know of. Long out of print buts pdf are available if search. 

These might be the pictures that Troy is referring to

 

Bf109G10 5F+12 Furth Colour new port

 

 

Bf109G10 5F+12 Furth Colour new starboard

 

For once I can't recall where I obtained these - I know it was online and not a scan so they are already in the public domain. However I can entirely understand if any moderator would want to remove these

 

SD

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7 hours ago, fastterry said:

I'm not sure how important this is in the vast scheme of Bf109's but years ago I built the 1/32 Hasegawa G-10 as yellow 2 above from the Eagle Cal sheet. Roll on the years and with new research it seems it's probably an Erla built G-10 which doesn't have the bulges under the nose and also I think the oil radiator was wider and not as deep as well.

Terry, I would be very interested in where you obtained this information. I have this sheet too but in 1/32, and note that the reference source given on the sheet for the profile is 'Photo in Jerry Crandall's collection'. So I've never seen any photographic evidence for this scheme (not doubting Jerry here - and for the price the sheet is in 1/32 perhaps some reproduction of the photo really is merited :nod: - but pics are always better than profiles) and believe me, I've looked! I have the JaPo publication on the Bf109Gs of KG(J)6 and this has nothing on Yellow 2 (but great stuff on other airframes from the unit)

 

If it's now thought to be an Erla built G-10 that's great as I have 4 1/32 scale Revell 109-G10s in the stash. :like:

 

SD

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I may have stepped on a mine here. Going through some things I came upon an article of Jerry Crandall's review of the 'new' Hasegawa 1/32 Messerschmitt Bf109G-10. He illustrates the article with a model which he built of yellow 2, the colours of which are based on colour photos he has in his collection. The article was dated 2004 as is the decal sheet shown above. The Erla 109G-10's have been known about since at least the Prien & Rodeike book of 1993 where they illustrated the flat panel on the port side of the 'refined' cowl, however it seems only recently that photos and articles have been published making the distinction between other 109G-10 manufacturers and Erla. Case in point green 7, illustrated in the Squadron Signal Messerschmitt Bf109 in action pt2 published 1983, page 45, identified as a G-10 but not as an Erla G-10 which with new info it certainly is. No under nose bumps, wide under nose cowling, shallower wider oil cooler and typical late Erla dark camo over rear fuselage and earlier 74/75 top nose cowling. Large Scale planes has a number of builds of Erla G-10's including one by Nicolas Beboeck of yellow 2 as an Erla machine. Without seeing the colour photos and in the light of info confirming that Erla went to very dark camo towards the end of the war and that yellow 2 looks similar to green 7 my money is on an Erla built machine. Maybe we could ask nicely if Jerry Crandall still stands by yellow 2 as an 'ordinary' G-10 or one built by Erla.

TRF standing by for the flak.

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13 hours ago, fastterry said:

I may have stepped on a mine here. Going through some things I came upon an article of Jerry Crandall's review of the 'new' Hasegawa 1/32 Messerschmitt Bf109G-10. He illustrates the article with a model which he built of yellow 2, the colours of which are based on colour photos he has in his collection. The article was dated 2004 as is the decal sheet shown above. The Erla 109G-10's have been known about since at least the Prien & Rodeike book of 1993 where they illustrated the flat panel on the port side of the 'refined' cowl, however it seems only recently that photos and articles have been published making the distinction between other 109G-10 manufacturers and Erla. Case in point green 7, illustrated in the Squadron Signal Messerschmitt Bf109 in action pt2 published 1983, page 45, identified as a G-10 but not as an Erla G-10 which with new info it certainly is. No under nose bumps, wide under nose cowling, shallower wider oil cooler and typical late Erla dark camo over rear fuselage and earlier 74/75 top nose cowling. Large Scale planes has a number of builds of Erla G-10's including one by Nicolas Beboeck of yellow 2 as an Erla machine. Without seeing the colour photos and in the light of info confirming that Erla went to very dark camo towards the end of the war and that yellow 2 looks similar to green 7 my money is on an Erla built machine. Maybe we could ask nicely if Jerry Crandall still stands by yellow 2 as an 'ordinary' G-10 or one built by Erla.

TRF standing by for the flak.

Is it possible to be more specific about the 'flat panel' noted above ?  Perhaps a link to a photo or an easily accessible reference.

 

Thanks too for your comment on the G-10 on p 45 of '109 in Action Pt 2'.  I had been planning to finish my Revell G-10 in this scheme to avoid having to paint a spiral and also because there were no under-cowl bumps!  The kit has 2 glue-on bumps that would have looked just that!  Now you have pointed out this detail I suppose I could stick them on and fair them with putty, but the oil cooler....?

 

It seems hard to believe that now, 75 years after the end of hostilities, we seem to know more about the different variants of '109' than ever before!  William Green never really mastered the differences, and my one-time bible 'Last of the Eagles' is now no longer the definitive source.  What has best taken over from it?

 

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