Selwyn Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Did the French Air Force ever Carry Matra Magic I missiles on their Mirage IIIC aircraft? or was it just AIM9B? (Im not interested in IIIE missile carriage!) I can't find any photographs showing these missiles being carried by the IIIC, but that does not mean it didn't happen. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Selwyn I came across this on Wiki when looking for material on my Mirage 111c build (yet to happen). No photos but this text if it helps:- "Early Mirage IIIC production had three stores pylons, one under the fuselage and one under each wing; another outboard pylon was soon added to each wing, for a total of five, excluding a sleek supersonic tank which also had bomb-carrying capacity. The outboard pylon was intended to carry an AIM-9B Sidewinder air-to-air missile, later replaced by the Matra R550 Magic and also was armed with the radar guided Matra R530 Missile on the center line pylon." That is within the section describing the C and the B models. Usual caveat re Wiki applies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 AFAIK the only French 'C's rewired for Magic were the Djibouti-based EC1O ones, the last ones of the type in operational service. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 yes they did: https://aeromil-yf.pagesperso-orange.fr/IIIC 50 10 LD sable.jpg http://bdd.deltareflex.com/cns_affiche.php?image=5283 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Yes, those are the rewired Djibouti ones from EC10. Cheers, Andre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Hook said: Yes, those are the rewired Djibouti ones from EC10. Cheers, Andre The Mirage would not have to be rewired to carry Magic as they were initially designed to be compatible with existing sidewinder hardware. . Now it appears that the mirage IIC aircraft did carry Magic 1, Extending the question was the Magic 2 ever fitted? It appeared in service very near the end of the IIIC life. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) I would say no to Magic II... I think not even to any other Mirage III variant...not in France nor elsewhere... Edited May 27, 2020 by exdraken Clarification 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 On 5/25/2020 at 7:59 PM, exdraken said: I would say no... I think not even to any other Mirage III variant...not in France nor elsewhere... MMM, the Mirage IIIO in the RAAF was equipped with the Magic towards the end of it's career with the RAAF. My understanding was that the Magic was a drop in replacement for Sidewinder and required no rewiring as such. If your aircraft was adapted to the Sidewinder, it could carry the Magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, rickshaw said: MMM, the Mirage IIIO in the RAAF was equipped with the Magic towards the end of it's career with the RAAF. My understanding was that the Magic was a drop in replacement for Sidewinder and required no rewiring as such. If your aircraft was adapted to the Sidewinder, it could carry the Magic. Sorry, I was refering to the Magic II part above. Made it clear now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, exdraken said: Sorry, I was refering to the Magic II part above. Made it clear now! So was I. The RAAF used Magic II R550 missiles on their Mirage IIIOs later in their lives. It was usually just called the "Magic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, rickshaw said: So was I. The RAAF used Magic II R550 missiles on their Mirage IIIOs later in their lives. It was usually just called the "Magic". hmmm I am not so sure here... I just build one and found this story back then: https://www.3squadron.org.au/subpages/Mirage_Missile_Misfire.htm although the drawing is of the Magic II (notched fins, different seeker head, https://military.wikia.org/wiki/R.550_Magic) the story is all only about the Magic (I) missile... also my literature does not state anything about the Magic II... Mirage IIIO: Colours & Markings, by Paul Mason http://www.ipmsusa.org/reviews/Archive/Books/Aircraft/Mushroom_Mirage_IIIO/Mushroom_Mirage_IIIO.htm Edited May 27, 2020 by exdraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 3 hours ago, exdraken said: hmmm I am not so sure here... I just build one and found this story back then: https://www.3squadron.org.au/subpages/Mirage_Missile_Misfire.htm although the drawing is of the Magic II (notched fins, different seeker head, https://military.wikia.org/wiki/R.550_Magic) the story is all only about the Magic (I) missile... also my literature does not state anything about the Magic II... Mirage IIIO: Colours & Markings, by Paul Mason http://www.ipmsusa.org/reviews/Archive/Books/Aircraft/Mushroom_Mirage_IIIO/Mushroom_Mirage_IIIO.htm All my information says Magic II. All the pictures show Magic II. I therefore am forced to conclude it was the Magic II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, rickshaw said: All my information says Magic II. All the pictures show Magic II. I therefore am forced to conclude it was the Magic II. Fine! Would you care to show/ link one of these pictures? I'd really like to know! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 These help? Magic 2 mounted on RAAF Mirage IIIO. Note the opaque seeker dome: the Magic I had a tranparent dome. An upgraded seeker was fitted to the Magic 2. Note that this is a Mirage IIIO, not a Mirage IIIC as refered to in Selwyn's query. Peter M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Nice pics, but I can't discern the notches in the aft wings that characterise the Magic 2. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Magpie22 said: These help? Magic 2 mounted on RAAF Mirage IIIO. Note the opaque seeker dome: the Magic I had a tranparent dome. An upgraded seeker was fitted to the Magic 2. Note that this is a Mirage IIIO, not a Mirage IIIC as refered to in Selwyn's query. Peter M very interesting! without notched rear fins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazontipede Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 I was always under the impression that the RAAF only used Magic I as a replacement for AIM-9* on the Mirages. At least I recall reading many years ago that deliveries started in around 1978, which IIRC is too early for Magic 2. I would have thought that by the time Magic 2 entered production/service (mid 80's) the Mirages were very much on the way out and the RAAF was already sourcing AIM-9L for the incoming Hornets. *AIM-9B initially, although I could swear I have some photos from an airshow in the mid 70's somewhere of an RAAF Mirage on display with what looks like AIM-9E underwing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 2:53 AM, Hook said: Nice pics, but I can't discern the notches in the aft wings that characterise the Magic 2. Cheers, Andre I think you are basing that view on a poor description in Wikipedia. I've looked at numerous photos of the R.550 Magic II missile and none of them have what I can discern as "notches" in the aft wings. I think they (and by extension yourself) are referring to are what I would call the middle set of fins, which do have "notches" in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 16 hours ago, rickshaw said: I think you are basing that view on a poor description in Wikipedia. I've looked at numerous photos of the R.550 Magic II missile and none of them have what I can discern as "notches" in the aft wings. I think they (and by extension yourself) are referring to are what I would call the middle set of fins, which do have "notches" in them. Those are the notches we refere to. Not the kink on the second set of fins. Supposedly one of the specific characteristics of a Magic II missile, apart from the seeker head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 17 hours ago, exdraken said: Those are the notches we refere to. Not the kink on the second set of fins. Supposedly one of the specific characteristics of a Magic II missile, apart from the seeker head Ah, now I understand what the "notches" are... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, rickshaw said: Ah, now I understand what the "notches" are... Yes. This was a change on Magic 2 to enhance maneouvrabilty compared to the Magic (or Magic 1). Some more nice pics, including the several inert / dummy training variants: http://florent1973.free.fr/FrenchAirWings/francais/aviation/armement/air_air/magic2/magic2_fiche.htm This may be of interest as well: https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVA8633OSUM58ZN2OTSDNUSRONW3-FRANCE-MATRA-550-MAGIC-AIR-TO-AIR-MISSILE-SHOWS-OFF-CAPABILITIES/query/Magic Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 5/25/2020 at 10:21 AM, Selwyn said: The Mirage would not have to be rewired to carry Magic as they were initially designed to be compatible with existing sidewinder hardware Of course, the weapons control system is adapted for both types, but the pylon for Magic and Sidewinder are different. On 5/30/2020 at 10:20 PM, exdraken said: Those are the notches we refere to. Not the kink on the second set of fins. Supposedly one of the specific characteristics of a Magic II missile, apart from the seeker head But maybe on photo just late series Magic II? 😉 B.R. Serge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 The French developed their own launcher for their aircraft, but the original magic could be used on the original sidewinder launcher. They were both built to the same Mil standard. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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