Sun faded Shackleton

[Onepipwonder]

Evening gents,

 

I’m currently building an Avro Shackelton MR.2. It’s going to be painted in the markings of 37 sqn RAF, from their time in Aden. I’m planning for it to be one of the aircraft there in 1967 during the Battle of the Crater.

Having looked at the photos on the Radfan Hunters Page there appears to be some colour shift in the panels, most prominent here (if I've inserted the image correctly): 

 

What I’m wondering is if Dark Sea Grey is still the most appropriate colour to use? Or would I be better served using a different grey to represent the sun faded DSG?  

 

Also, if DSG is still correct to use, can anyone recommend a good paint to use through an airbrush? I’ve seen a number of times online that Humbrol acrylics don’t flow well through an airbrush, can anyone recommend a better alternative? I’d prefer it to be an acrylic if possible as I’ve never used enamels before.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Onepipwonder
Spelling

[alt-92]

What I would do is spray some disposable plastic spoons* with different greys (DSG, Ocean grey, Dark Gull Grey, you get it) and use those to match the photo for some base colours.

Easy spraying acrylics like Vallejo, Tamiya, Hataka red have most.

Tamiya XF82 Ocean grey  is a bit different in tone than Vallejo's Ocean grey for instance, so don't be afraid to use different brands.

A thinned upper layer to add fading would work, and/or adding oil-based dot filters to enhance.

 

*like this

[Onepipwonder]

3 hours ago, alt-92 said:

*like this

An excellent idea, thank you. It’s been a very long time since I last built a model, although I can’t help but feel I should have thought of that myself. 

[stever219]

@Onepipwonder you’ve picked the skankiest bit of the aeroplane to illustrate your question, but it shows one very pertinent point.

 

The rear half of the spinner on number 4 looks like it was very fresh Dark Sea Grey; compare it to the area of wing around the roundel out past all of the crud deposited by the engines.  The blue of the roundel itself also appears lightened or faded, it’s a shame that the red of the roundel’s been cropped as we could then see how that compares to the red on number 4 spinner which also appears very fresh.  Do you have any other images of your chosen subject that give a better representation of the overall finish?

 

There are so many shades of grey in your image: some look like a more intense version of Barley Grey/Camouflage Grey and some like very faded RLM Grauviolet with others like Ocean Grey.  With the very strong direct lighting, the age of your image, the type of film it was taken on, the way that film was processed, the paper that it was printed on and the way in which it was digitised none of the colours are now likely to represent 100% accurately how they looked on the aeroplane even half an hour later.

 

Whatever you do I look forward to seeing your completed model.  One of my stalled MR. 2s is intended to represent WR961 in the Middle East at about the same time but with white applied to the wings over the fuel tanks.

[Jazzie]

There was a very nice Beaufighter in RFI recently where Ocean Grey was used to represent faded DSG. I have this in mind for one of my future builds, but not sure what to use when lightening it, but would expect DSG would be used to darken it.

Stay Safe,

Geoff.

[Graham Boak]

DSG or EDSG?  I think the latter, and the blue tinge in the photo confirms it (for me).

[Onepipwonder]

7 hours ago, stever219 said:

@Onepipwonder you’ve picked the skankiest bit of the aeroplane to illustrate your question, but it shows one very pertinent point.

 

The rear half of the spinner on number 4 looks like it was very fresh Dark Sea Grey; compare it to the area of wing around the roundel out past all of the crud deposited by the engines.  The blue of the roundel itself also appears lightened or faded, it’s a shame that the red of the roundel’s been cropped as we could then see how that compares to the red on number 4 spinner which also appears very fresh.  Do you have any other images of your chosen subject that give a better representation of the overall finish?

 

There are so many shades of grey in your image: some look like a more intense version of Barley Grey/Camouflage Grey and some like very faded RLM Grauviolet with others like Ocean Grey.  With the very strong direct lighting, the age of your image, the type of film it was taken on, the way that film was processed, the paper that it was printed on and the way in which it was digitised none of the colours are now likely to represent 100% accurately how they looked on the aeroplane even half an hour later.

 

Whatever you do I look forward to seeing your completed model.  One of my stalled MR. 2s is intended to represent WR961 in the Middle East at about the same time but with white applied to the wings over the fuel tanks.

These are the other colour images I found:

 

 

 

 

The obvious issue is that for the reasons you describe there is no consistent representation of the colour. The project is on hold at the moment while I get together a number of companies’ shades of DSG, before deciding with which one to go with. 37 was my grandfather’s squadron, so I’ll happily take some time to make sure its right and I’m happy with it.

 

7 hours ago, Jazzie said:

There was a very nice Beaufighter in RFI recently where Ocean Grey was used to represent faded DSG. I have this in mind for one of my future builds, but not sure what to use when lightening it, but would expect DSG would be used to darken it.

Stay Safe,

Geoff.

Thanks, I’ll check it out.

 

6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

DSG or EDSG?  I think the latter, and the blue tinge in the photo confirms it (for me).

MR.2’s were painted in DSG not ESDG, although there has often been a little confusion on the correct colour.

 

Stay safe all.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On 5/23/2020 at 6:09 PM, Onepipwonder said:

 

 

 

It's often considered bad etiquette to quote including images but I'm going to do it here anyway.

 

I see a good 3 or 4 colours there and would approach that as a chipping exercise using either hairspray, salt or sponge techniques. There are small darker areas which appear stained but which I believe are closer to the original paint's tone. The cowlings appear to have taken a greenish caste whilst the fairings into the leading edges have adopted a reddish caste.

 

Were it mine, I'd start with an airbrushed base coat, probably on the medium blue side of Dark Sea Grey, then using my favoured chipping technique I'd filter a lighter greenish tinted over (heavily thinned) then a lighter reddish tinted version over the appropriate areas before giving the whole lot a final super-heavily thinned original go over with some untinted DSG.

 

IMO the key to faded surfaces like this is avoiding like the plague "high quality" man-made looking uniformity in the appearance. That doesn't mean pre-shading the panel lines black and fading the centres of the panels since, as you can clearly see, that's not what we see in this photograph. The discolouration is on a much smaller scale. Salt is great for this sort of work, but it's not the only way

[Edge]

Really interesting topic and some great suggestions on how to achieve the look. Most are beyond my skill set, but I look forward to seeing the results.

 

Edge

 

[Radfan Hunters]

I know it doesn't help answer your question, but just to say that the images you find on Radfan Hunters were sent to me by various people. Most of them had gone very dark or badly faded so I did what I could to restore them to a presentable standard. So suggest that you don't rely too much on the colours you find on my website, it was after all, intended for for record and anecdotal purposes.