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Humbrol Clear Varnish


Lewis95

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Hello all! 

 

Just a quick blast of questions. I'm mostly looking for any incompatibilities rather than asking specific questions.

 

I currently use Tamiya acrylics thinned with X20A. I don't want to faff about with thinning my varnishes and Humbrol Clear Gloss seems ideal for being a straight from the bottle varnish. My thought process is as follows;

 

  • Prime model with either Halfords/Citadel Rattlecans OR Mr.Surfacer thinned with X20A (I CANNOT USE SLT OR OTHER LACQUERS IN MY AIRBRUSH CURRENTLY)
  • Airbrush model with Tamiya Acrylics, also thinned with X20A
  • Airbrush Humbrol Clear Gloss, neat from the bottle
  • Decals applied with Microset and Microsol
  • Tamiya Panel Line Accents applied and cleaned with Mig Thinner for Washes (or similar)
  • Humbrol Clear Matt applied

 

The Humbrol Clear range would be the bottled version and NOT the rattlecan version. I know that a certain product from Tamiya reacts with Humbrol Decalfix but cannot remember if this was the varnish or not. 

Edited by Lewis95
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Just now, bentwaters81tfw said:

My experience of Humbrol clear varnish is it yellows over time. Fine if you like brown stains everywhere.

Got any recommendations for an airbrush ready varnish then? 

 

And are you sure it's not just sunlight damage? 

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I don't use an airbrush, and no, it isn't sunlight damage. Others have experienced the same thing. If you look back on the site, you will find much discussion the subject of clear varnishes.

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I would reccommend the Alclad Aqua gloss. I've tried the Humbrol varnishes and find they either yellow from the off (gloss) or go 'chalky' (matt).

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I think this is a case of needing to know the difference between Humbrol 49 Matt varnish & Humbrol Mattcote. The former is a conventional varnish & will yellow like crazy over time, the latter is a clear coat which needs a helluva lot of mixing before use but afaik, does not yellow being a product of a different technology. Humbrol sell it as a non yellowing finish, there is also gloss & satin cote. I've used it & been happy with it but since discovering Klear type floor polishes, I use them for a gloss & either Vallejo Matt varnish for a satin type finish or Liquitex matt varnish for a really matt finish. My other option is Klear with Tamiya X21 flat base in it, about 10% for a satin finish & 20% for a matt finish, brushed on, I don't know how this goes with airbrushes. 

Steve.

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12 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

My experience of Humbrol clear varnish is it yellows over time. Fine if you like brown stains everywhere.

The stuff in the tin certainly does, but I've never seen this with the bottled stuff (the Gloss/Matt/Satin cote in the 28ml bottles) - even on very old (30 year+) models. However, they were never in direct sunlight.

But these days I prefer using Future/Klear. I airbrush a 50/50 IPA mix with Tamiya flat base used if I want a matt of satin finish.

 

I find this provides a very nice finish which seems impervious to finger prints and general handling ... it also dries very quickly. The amount of flat coat you use gives an infinite range of possible sheens. You can also apply this by brush with no fear of brush marks,

 

Longevity? Ask me 30 years from now ... only been using Future as a final finish for a couple of years.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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56 minutes ago, Parabat said:

would reccommend the Alclad Aqua gloss.

Is the Alclad Aqua suitable for an airbrush from the offset? Also, is it suitable for dipping canopies? 

 

I have 0 intention of using flooring products on my models however. 

1 hour ago, ckw said:

but I've never seen this with the bottled stuff (the Gloss/Matt/Satin cote in the 28ml bottles)

I assume this is the same as the 125ml bottles? 

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1 minute ago, Parabat said:

A good run down of Alclad aqua gloss here

I've just seen they're a lacquer based varnish. Can't use them currently as I don't have a safe environment for lacquers. 

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2 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

I assume this is the same as the 125ml bottles? 

No, that's humbrol clear, which is water soluble. the 'cotes' are solvent based. I have no experience of Humbrol clear.

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3 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

I've just seen they're a lacquer based varnish. Can't use them currently as I don't have a safe environment for lacquers. 

Did you bother to read that at all?

"As the name suggests, Aqua Gloss is an acrylic gloss varnish (for the avoidance of doubt!), and clean up immediately after use is with water."

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If they had been, just how safe an environment do you need?  Bear in mind that you are not using them in industrial quantities and such things as facemasks and ventilation fans are available.  I'm not one to foam at the mouth at the mere mention of "health and Safety" but people have been using lacquer paints in domestic circumstances for many many years without all suffering agonies and dying from it.   Care and attention is good,   Panic at the mere mention is bad.  OK, they smell a bit.  Diddums.

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Don't forget, acrylics aren't exactly good for you!

Common sense prevails with all paint types.

 

Back on subject, I follow a very similar process to you yourself, with the following exceptions:

 

Klear/Future  for the gloss coats (No thinning required, it's already like gnats pee!), but have recently been using Tamiya X-22 Clear thinned with X-20A (both easily available). Sprays a treat and can be brush painted.

 

Winsor & Newton Galeria Matt Varnish thinned a little with their Flow Improver. Again, both readily available and can be brush painted..

 

I haven't personally had any incompatibilities with those combinations.

 

I have no experience of the Humbrol Clearcoats or any panel accents (I mix my own with tamiya acrylics or cheap oil paints. Those pre-made things seem expensive for what they are!), so can't pass comment.

HTH Chap.

Rick.

 

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1 hour ago, Parabat said:

Did you bother to read that at all?

"As the name suggests, Aqua Gloss is an acrylic gloss varnish (for the avoidance of doubt!), and clean up immediately after use is with water."

Yes I did. I actually replied on the thread to ask that question specifically. I was under the impression that the lacquer side of things referred to the thinning element rather than the paint makeup itself. 

 

Example being Vallejo Air thinned with water and Tamiya acrylic thinned with Mr Levelling Thinner are both acrylic.

 

Thanks for your understanding attitude to those who don't have decades of experience with paint :) 

 

And for clarity, the company I work for uses aqua to refer to anything that gives a wet look. The products in that range are all solvent based. Not water based. Hence why aqua doesn't mean water based to me but rather, wet look. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

If they had been, just how safe an environment do you need?  Bear in mind that you are not using them in industrial quantities and such things as facemasks and ventilation fans are available.  I'm not one to foam at the mouth at the mere mention of "health and Safety" but people have been using lacquer paints in domestic circumstances for many many years without all suffering agonies and dying from it.   Care and attention is good,   Panic at the mere mention is bad.  OK, they smell a bit.  Diddums.

I personally have no problem with the smell but don't have an area with a vent setup currently. I'll be installing a makeshift airbrush area in the garage when I can but for now I have to airbrush in the house with only a mask. And given that my Mrs had a lung infection that scarred her lungs, I don't want to be using chemicals that linger til I can afford to ventilate properly. 

 

44 minutes ago, Rick Brown said:

Tamiya X-22 Clear thinned with X-20A (both easily available).

I've got X-22 in the stashbox but whilst I found it relatively good to use, I like to use something that I can quickly spray in a spare 10 minutes without worrying about mixing it up and fiddling with ratios. 

 

44 minutes ago, Rick Brown said:

Those pre-made things seem expensive for what they are

I agree that they aren't cheap. I use citadel acrylic washes in mini painting and cockpits but it's a nightmare to clean up on panel lines. 

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17 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

I agree that they aren't cheap. I use citadel acrylic washes in mini painting and cockpits but it's a nightmare to clean up on panel lines. 

I use watercolours for panel lines and washes ... on a gloss finish after decalling. Easy to apply and control the opacity and really easy to clean up! I seal everything with the final (usually matt/semi matt) top coat. Of course some things (like oil leaks) shouldn't be matt, so if required I add this afterwards with thinned gloss enamel. I did try a jar of MiG panel line wash, but could see no advantage to it and its costly stuff - mind you a jar would last for ages.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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43 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

Yes I did. I actually replied on the thread to ask that question specifically. I was under the impression that the lacquer side of things referred to the thinning element rather than the paint makeup itself. 

 

Example being Vallejo Air thinned with water and Tamiya acrylic thinned with Mr Levelling Thinner are both acrylic.

 

Thanks for your understanding attitude to those who don't have decades of experience with paint :)  

Ok, having another read through this, it seems like you want confirmation that the Humbrol clear will be ok. Others have tried to steer you away from Humbrol as it tends to yellow. Klear/Future is acrylic, is a 'floor product' and can also yellow, which you don't want. 

I simply offered up a quite simple review of Alclad Aqua gloss which states it is water based. It's not 'decades of paint experience', it's about being objective. People are genuinely trying to offer you helpful solutions within the parameters you specified, but I feel you are letting assumptions get in the way and are waiting for confirmation that Humbrol is the answer.

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16 minutes ago, Parabat said:

simply offered up a quite simple review of Alclad Aqua gloss which states it is water based. It's not 'decades of paint experience', it's about being objective. People are genuinely trying to offer you helpful solutions within the parameters you specified, but I feel you are letting assumptions get in the way and are waiting for confirmation that Humbrol is the answer.

I may of read the Alclad Lacquer phrase a bit too literally on the packaging. My apologies for being shirty with you in my last reply. The did you bother reading it comment got my back up a tad. The review was actually incredibly helpful. 

 

 

In all honesty, I tend to try and avoid Humbrol products and I would much prefer to use Alclad if it'd be more suited to my purpose. I tend to see the word lacquer and avoid it like the plague after the reaction I had when asking for venting recommendations and getting hell on earth over not having a NASA level filtration system for this "almost nerve gas" type of product. 

 

So yes, basically I saw the word lacquer and assumed the worst. But you did make me look harder into the product and its now at the top of my list. The problem being with varnish questions is that all the threads end up talking about Kleer 😂

Edited by Lewis95
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13 hours ago, Lewis95 said:

Hello all! 

 

Just a quick blast of questions. I'm mostly looking for any incompatibilities rather than asking specific questions.

 

I currently use Tamiya acrylics thinned with X20A. I don't want to faff about with thinning my varnishes and Humbrol Clear Gloss seems ideal for being a straight from the bottle varnish. My thought process is as follows;

 

  • Prime model with either Halfords/Citadel Rattlecans OR Mr.Surfacer thinned with X20A (I CANNOT USE SLT OR OTHER LACQUERS IN MY AIRBRUSH CURRENTLY)
  • Airbrush model with Tamiya Acrylics, also thinned with X20A
  • Airbrush Humbrol Clear Gloss, neat from the bottle
  • Humbrol Clear Matt applied

Halfords rattle can primer stinks to high heaven. Mr Surfacer is lacquer (won't thin with Tamiya x-20a) also stinks. The Humbrol gloss from the bottle is still too thick to airbrush without thinning. It probably would spray, but the finish will be very poor without proper thinning. If you think thinning/mixing paint is a faff why airbrush? At some point you'll need to thin paint or clear to use it in an airbrush, learn to do that now and it will stand you in good stead for the future. Even Tamiya acrylics have a smell. Sure it's not as unpleasant as lacquer, but they still smell. I wouldn't breathe the vapour/fumes from Tamiya acrylics myself. I assume you're building cars? Most will tell you lacquers are great for cars, myself included. I would wait till you have the means to spray lacquers, paints and clear. I think they are just the easiest way to a nice finish, that's also tough, just my opinion..

 

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1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

Halfords rattle can primer stinks to high heaven

It does indeed. I can, however, use this outside without issue. 

1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

Mr Surfacer is lacquer (won't thin with Tamiya x-20a) also stinks

I didn't know that! Good to know for the future! :)

1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

If you think thinning/mixing paint is a faff why airbrush?

Paint? No. I don't mind thinning and mixing paint as I only need to do it once or twice per colour and usually can do it in one or two sittings. 

 

Varnish however, needs longer to cure than the paint. In between coats, I'll have to strip down and clean as well as get a similar mix again. I don't mind the cleaning and mixing but if I can simplify a step by not faffing with thinners then that's a victory that makes life easier. 

1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

At some point you'll need to thin paint or clear to use it in an airbrush, learn to do that now and it will stand you in good stead for the future.

I do thin my paints and I have previously thinned X22 without too much trouble. However, given how spread out varnishing will be (1 coat a night most likely), I'd prefer to simplify it. 

 

1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

Even Tamiya acrylics have a smell. Sure it's not as unpleasant as lacquer, but they still smell. I wouldn't breathe the vapour/fumes from Tamiya acrylics myself. I assume you're building cars? Most will tell you lacquers are great for cars, myself included. I would wait till you have the means to spray lacquers, paints and clear. I think they are just the easiest way to a nice finish, that's also tough, just my opinion

Yeah the Tamiya acrylics do smell. And whilst they still aren't fun to breathe, I can spray them indoors without the smell lingering as long as the room has airflow in it. I use a mask either way but I've found lacquer smells for a long time after the coat is done. 

 

I'm actually not doing cars but aircraft. I've still got to table the discussion with the Mrs about getting a decent booth (that's been decided on) and until then, I'll be using X20A as a thinner. I do agree that lacquer thinner is amazing for airbrushing and something I wish to use once I do get my bench vent. 

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I take all your points on board. Seems to me you need a quicker drying clear that you can finish spraying in one session without hours of drying in between coats. Humbrol is not the clear for what you need. Maybe the Aqua Gloss is the answer? 

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4 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

I take all your points on board. Seems to me you need a quicker drying clear that you can finish spraying in one session without hours of drying in between coats. Humbrol is not the clear for what you need. Maybe the Aqua Gloss is the answer? 

I think you're right on that one. Aqua Gloss is currently at the top of my list. It's airbrush ready and a reputable brand. It's fine for using enamel inks and thinners on top of from what I can tell. And it's not overpriced.

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17 hours ago, Lewis95 said:

 

I have 0 intention of using flooring products on my models however.

it's a self levelling acrylic varnish.  Just because it's sold for floors does not change what it is.   The self levelling bit is what works for modellers. 

Bear in mind many modelling products are just the same thing sold in smaller quantities for more money....

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