1/350th HMS Ekins Captain Class DE - Trumpeter

[Our Ned]

At least two other Captains class ships wore a similar scheme to that in the first post - photos of each appear in the IWM collection -  Curzon (Photo Ref A26373) and Fitzroy (FL13142) - although neither shows the lighter-coloured funnel and Curzon had light-coloured pendant numbers.

[dickrd]

4 hours ago, mick b said:

Hi Richard , thank you very much for your observations in an effort to determine this paint scheme. I would however dispute the claim that this was applied strictly for its new role as CFCF vessel as Ekins was not alone in this role and in fact 12 vessels operated in this role from April 44 to April 45, however Ekins was part of Nore Command up until this group of DEs also took on the CFCF role towards the end of 44 ( all of this according to Collingwood in his book) therefore the extremely worn appearance of Ekins in this photo indicates to me that this scheme was applied some time before the change in operations?

 

Unfortunately I cannot find photographs of the other vessels during this period, either before or after where this Ekins scheme is not present, perhaps she was a one off.

 

Mike

I don’t think we need to be disputatious! It is difficult to interpret tone in the written word but my “must” as in “This camouflage design must have been applied for that purpose” was a musing/pondering sort of must! On reflection “could” would perhaps have been a better choice of word. Anyhow that train of thought followed on from your suggestion further above that Ekins was painted in the so-called Channel scheme (“gay Channel camouflage”) during the summer of 1944 for her duties in support of D Day. If she was then a conscious decision must have been made afterwards when deployed back to  North Sea duties to repaint out of the Channel Scheme into the scheme photographed at Harwich in November for her later 1944 role(s). But maybe we should question whether she was ever in the Channel Scheme? Is there evidence for that? Best wishes, Richard

Edited May 24, 2020 by dickrd

[mick b]

Hi Richard

 

As per my previous post the view that Ekins was painted in the Channel camouflage was from Peter Elliott’s history of the vessel in his Allied Escort book. However in the same book he has captioned a photograph of Balfour as being in the Channel scheme as below: 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Balfour_(K464)

 

However we know this to be a different scheme due to the demarcation as well as the fact Channel camouflage is shown to be a fussy multi coloured pattern in some sources, so he was mistaken?

 

Our Ned has provided two references for similar painted vessels as Ekins;  Curzon was part of the Nore and CFCF commands while Fitzroy was briefly with Nore before joining 21st EG, and looking at those images suggests the panel is still of a lighter tone than previously suggested but it’s all conjecture really?

 

cheers 

 

Mike

Edited May 24, 2020 by mick b

[mick b]

2 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

That addition is superb! It all looks very convincing, and is the sort of detail that lifts such a model to a whole new level.

 

Really enjoying this thread, and at least one 1/350 Captain class will be added to my wish list.

 

Terry

Thank you for your kind words Terry, glad you’re enjoying it 👍

 

2 hours ago, Coors54 said:

Yup, dad mentioned that along with single messing and bunks rather than hammocks although something tells me that that the bunks were removed? He did say they were rather wet ships in rough weather but generally people thought they were better off than in British designed vessels.

Nice work on the brass wrangling Mike, and it's always a good idea to put your hand or something in to give scale, we forget how tiny 1/350th is with macro pictures, how anyone does 1/700 is beyond me!

 

Yours aye

Dave

Agreed that those who deal with 700th PE must have bionic eyes!

I read that initially they rolled quite a bit in rough weather due to the RN specification requiring the removal of equipment but this was alleviated some what by the fitting of the extra depth charge racks on the aft deck sides.

 

Mike

[mick b]

As I draw close to the painting stage of the Ekins I ordered the US colour coats for Measure 22 as suggested earlier ( thanks Jamie, excellent service) as this seems a plausible scheme.

 

However as this colour quandary continues I wonder what is thought of the following tonal comparisons? Our Ned kindly provided links to the IWM collection of other Captains serving in Harwich at the same time and showing a similar scheme (measure 22 demarcation) but now that I have the US paints in my hands I can’t believe that the lower panel is weathered 5-N navy blue?

 

 

HMS Ekins:

 

 

HMS Curzon with pale pennant

 

 

 

HMS Fitzroy with dark pennant

 

 

Any thoughts guys? I assume the deck colour would still be the original US colour.

 

Mike

[Stephen Allen]

Mike

 

Great progress on your Ekins, and a couple of thoughts. I have wondered if the camouflage on Ekins in the couple of photos I have seen, shows an incomplete repaint into or out of the two tone scheme, and whether the scheme was something associated with Nore Command, in which Ekins spent her service. There is another photo of Ekins in the same scheme on the IWM site, (IWM A 26398) dated 12 November 44 (I think taken on the same day as the photo you posted) which is well after her completion and commissioning in Nov 43,  after her refit at Pollocks dock (some weeks to do all the alterations required by the RN to Captains, from extended bilge keels, to upper deck depth storage rails, to the Director/shelter structure on the flying bridge, so repainting was clearly possible) and after earlier service with 3rd Escort Group. It seems to me improbable that she would still be in USN colours by Nov 44. I also wonder whether she has been caught in the act of repainting, as there are lighter colours cut in around the portholes on the forward superstructure, and lighter paint on the raft supports aft.  Interestingly Peter Elliott (who served on Captains in the channel during the war), describes the two tone paint as a ‘Channel Scheme’, probably serving the same range confusion purpose as Ms 22 in the USN given these ships were sailing in range of shore batteries.  I wouldn’t hazard a guess at the colours I am afraid.

 

I also think you may wish to revisit the director shelter - it looks a bit wide in comparison both to the drawings in the Almark book by Peter Elliott and also to photographs of Captains with the shelter. The second photo of Ekins shows the rear of the tower to be about the width of the rangefinder platform it surrounds. It would also be open at the top on both levels, with a Venturi wind deflector screen around the top edge of each level. It would be great if there were larger and better drawings of the shelter, and the gun shields fitted to some Captains, but I haven’t found any.

 

You may have guessed, I am building a Captain too, but HMS Conn in ‘45.
 

best wishes with your excellent build!

 

Steve

[Stephen Allen]

And as a quick postscript, if you check page 37 of your Almark DE book, you will see Ekins in Bermuda in her original US applied scheme. It was the pale blue (Thayer blue I would expect) and either pale grey or white disruptive scheme worn by most of the RN DEs on commissioning and work up and until taken in hand for alterations. You can clearly see the delineations on the side of the superstructure and weather screen.
 

cheers

 

Steve

[mick b]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:16 AM, Stephen Allen said:

Mike

 

Great progress on your Ekins, and a couple of thoughts. I have wondered if the camouflage on Ekins in the couple of photos I have seen, shows an incomplete repaint into or out of the two tone scheme, and whether the scheme was something associated with Nore Command, in which Ekins spent her service. There is another photo of Ekins in the same scheme on the IWM site, (IWM A 26398) dated 12 November 44 (I think taken on the same day as the photo you posted) which is well after her completion and commissioning in Nov 43,  after her refit at Pollocks dock (some weeks to do all the alterations required by the RN to Captains, from extended bilge keels, to upper deck depth storage rails, to the Director/shelter structure on the flying bridge, so repainting was clearly possible) and after earlier service with 3rd Escort Group. It seems to me improbable that she would still be in USN colours by Nov 44. I also wonder whether she has been caught in the act of repainting, as there are lighter colours cut in around the portholes on the forward superstructure, and lighter paint on the raft supports aft.  Interestingly Peter Elliott (who served on Captains in the channel during the war), describes the two tone paint as a ‘Channel Scheme’, probably serving the same range confusion purpose as Ms 22 in the USN given these ships were sailing in range of shore batteries.  I wouldn’t hazard a guess at the colours I am afraid.

 

I also think you may wish to revisit the director shelter - it looks a bit wide in comparison both to the drawings in the Almark book by Peter Elliott and also to photographs of Captains with the shelter. The second photo of Ekins shows the rear of the tower to be about the width of the rangefinder platform it surrounds. It would also be open at the top on both levels, with a Venturi wind deflector screen around the top edge of each level. It would be great if there were larger and better drawings of the shelter, and the gun shields fitted to some Captains, but I haven’t found any.

 

You may have guessed, I am building a Captain too, but HMS Conn in ‘45.
 

best wishes with your excellent build!

 

Steve

Hi Steve,

 

Thank you for your insight and kind words reference the build so far.

 

I agree with you that I think the scheme applied has been done sometime after it’s delivery and perhaps during its refit as you allude to and I mentioned in previous posts but unfortunately there is nothing  concrete so it’s all conjecture to an extent. But I am erring against M22 colours now.

 

With regards the director , yes I am not a 100% happy with it and used the drawing in Elliott’s DE book as a guide ( and the two photos of Ekins in Harwich) and I haven’t seen any clear photos of other Captains with it on, but as I said earlier I may still scrap it and start again. Do you have any references showing a better view ?

 

How is the Conn coming on? 👍

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Stephen Allen]

Hi Mike

 

I am actually at the stage where I am building the director Tower/Captain's shelter onto the bridge so I am looking at every photo I can find online and in my references.

 

From what I have seen the following Captains all had a director tower/shelter at some point in their career: Curzon, Cubitt, Essington, Conn, Ekins, Byron and possibly Halsted.  There are three photos of Curzon sporting the shelter on the IWM site. These are, I think, the most informative I have found.  There is one from the rear which shows both the overhang of the shelter structure beyond the aft bridge screen and what looks like an open rear end with a two rail enclosure.  The enclosed overhang of the shelter comes right down to the level of the upper mast support, which is at the level of the flying bridges's lowest deck.

 

There is also a shot of Curzon in broadside which is very helpful in estimating the overall length and height of the shelter and clearly shows the wind deflectors fitted to each level.  It also shows a gap in the side which is presumably access to the CO's shelter section of the structure, which makes this part look a little like an old-fashioned church pulpit - from the photo it would appear to have a cut out in both sides.  If you type HMS Curzon into the IWM search function you will find all three shots.  I also think that the director section of the shelter was accessed from a ladder on the starboard side of the after bridge., at least for Conn. There is a nice shot (also IWM) of the Conn's CO standing with his fiancee in the starboard aft corner of the bridge, and just beside him is a ladder which disappears up and over the rear bridge screen - it has to lead to the top level of the shelter so I am assuming that there is also a door or cut out or whatever on that side of the shelter as well.

 

One gap in my knowledge is precisely what director was installed, as none of the photos show more than a little blob. There also seems to be some variation in the shelters ship by ship - Ekins certainly looks like it has a fully enclosed rear section, although whether the enclosure is steel or painted canvas I couldn't tell.

 

My Conn is starting to come along nicely though I must confess it is not the Trumpeter Buckley.  It is a 1/72 scale RC semi-scratch build.  If I can work out how, I will post a photo of the bridge with the tower installed - probably another couple of days.  Mind you I have such confidence in my research to date I am going to make the tower removable, so I can scrap it and start again if or when a better photo or plan turns up!

 

cheers and best wishes

 

Steve

[mick b]

Hi Steve,

 

Excellent, thanks, I will dig around on the IWM site 😊

 

A 1/72nd scale Captain class sounds awesome 👍 

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Coors54]

55 minutes ago, Stephen Allen said:

My Conn is starting to come along nicely though I must confess it is not the Trumpeter Buckley.  It is a 1/72 scale RC semi-scratch build.

Stephen, as the son of an ex-Conn, (see what I did there?:) I would love to see what you are doing with this. I've always wanted a larger scale model of her.

 

Dave

[Stephen Allen]

G’day Dave

 

Your father was a part of an outstanding anti-submarine team on Conn and as part of the 21st Escort Group. 

 

I will post a general shot of the progress to date when I post a photo of the bridge with Director shelter attached for Mike. I have completed the basic structure for this, so I will post some photos with dimensions once I have worked out how to get them onto my Imgur account.  After that, I will sit back and watch Mike’s progress. Happy to keep you apprised of progress by separate means at later dates. 

 

cheers

 

Steve

 

[Stephen Allen]

Mike

 

some shots of the Director tower - first pic in context of the overall build

[Stephen Allen]

low shot from ahead, the relative height of the tower shrinks from this angle

 

[Stephen Allen]

the tower from the side, showing the degree of overhang over the rear bridge screen

[Stephen Allen]

The tower in four detail shots.  Apart from the slight detail changes, what I have interpreted from photos (and I have relied mostly on the three clear shots of HMS Curzon) lines up pretty well with the drawing included in the Almark publication by Peter Elliott. This could of course be a case of circular reporting, with Peter's draughtsman probably using the same sequence of photos, but its the best I can do short of finding an actual drawing of the tower. As I have built it, the front of the tower aligns with the end of the original director platform on the bridge.  If this was kept, then an already complicated bridge, with four separate floor levels, becomes a bit of a health and safety nightmare, with no less than six levels! You would want to know your way around the layout, especially at night.  I certainly don't claim that this is definitive, just a personal interpretation of the available photos.

 

I am still wondering what Director was used - US DEs had Mk 51 directors converted to 3 inch ballistics, so perhaps that is what the RN re-installed.  It's notable that Curzon, and some other ships with such towers, were earmarked as fighter director ships for the far east, so a director with anti-aircraft capability would make sense.

 

I hope this gives some food for thought with your build of Ekins . Best of luck pinning down the camouflage colours - it is an intriguing scheme!

 

cheers

 

Steve

 

[Coors54]

22 hours ago, Stephen Allen said:

Your father was a part of an outstanding anti-submarine team on Conn and as part of the 21st Escort Group. 

He was very proud of his time on Conn, he was an asdic operator and got his Mention in Despatches for his part in the sinking of U-905 and U-965 in late March 1945.

Here he is in a crew photo taken after the actions.

 

Steve, please start a thread on your build, it will be very impressive when it's finished.

 

Dave

Edited August 15, 2020 by Coors54

[mick b]

On 8/15/2020 at 6:14 AM, Stephen Allen said:

The tower in four detail shots.  Apart from the slight detail changes, what I have interpreted from photos (and I have relied mostly on the three clear shots of HMS Curzon) lines up pretty well with the drawing included in the Almark publication by Peter Elliott. This could of course be a case of circular reporting, with Peter's draughtsman probably using the same sequence of photos, but its the best I can do short of finding an actual drawing of the tower. As I have built it, the front of the tower aligns with the end of the original director platform on the bridge.  If this was kept, then an already complicated bridge, with four separate floor levels, becomes a bit of a health and safety nightmare, with no less than six levels! You would want to know your way around the layout, especially at night.  I certainly don't claim that this is definitive, just a personal interpretation of the available photos.

 

I am still wondering what Director was used - US DEs had Mk 51 directors converted to 3 inch ballistics, so perhaps that is what the RN re-installed.  It's notable that Curzon, and some other ships with such towers, were earmarked as fighter director ships for the far east, so a director with anti-aircraft capability would make sense.

 

I hope this gives some food for thought with your build of Ekins . Best of luck pinning down the camouflage colours - it is an intriguing scheme!

 

cheers

 

Steve

 

 

Excellent work Steve, thanks for the images and I agree with your interpretation of the limited images we have to work from having found the Curzon one on IWM 👍

 

I assume there is a curved bulkhead on the rear of the tower? Is it likely that a vertical ladder on both sides could lead up to the gap between the two sections? 

 

I will scrap my effort and see what I can knock up! 😂

 

Cheers 

 

Mike

[Stephen Allen]

The bulkhead behind the Captain’s shelter might, or might not be curved. Squinting, I can sort of make it curved in some of the photos, but honestly, the angles of the shots are such I can’t be sure. I made the rear of the director platform curved because the rear view shot of Curzon clearly shows a small crescent shaped shadow underneath the platform, but I think the bulkhead below is flat.  Yes, I was thinking a vertical ladder to the first compartment, though this seems somehow undignified for the CO!
 

If you have, or can get access to it, there is also a nice detail shot of the port side of Ekin’s bridge in Warship Perspectives Volume 3, page 54, by Alan Raven. It shows a standard Admiralty destroyer type binnacle mounted in what was the original director position, just behind the US style pelorus, what looks like the curved back of a wooden captain’s chair, and a big covered Chart desk hard up against the port bridge side. More than anything it shows how cramped the bridge arrangements on these little ships were - more cluttered than my workroom!  

 

Any further luck with the camouflage on Ekins?
 

Dave - I will try to post updates on Conn in a separate thread - i’ll let you know when the first one is up.

 

cheers

 

Steve

[mick b]

I Can’t believe I haven’t updated this since August! Anyway using the images suggested by Steve and his excellent build I have totally rehashed the gun director on the bridge. Scratch built using Evergreen card and rod ( how come that stuff is soooo expensive!) this is my interpretation mainly based on Steve’s 😂. I have added a door on the starboard side and the ladder up to it ( as seen in the photo Steve mentioned on the IWM site) using a cut down spare from the PE sets. I also put on a small horizontal platform/ grate at the top of the ladder to which I have yet to add a railing. I will put a vertical ladder on the port side up to the skippers ‘pulpit’ in due course. 

In addition I used parts of the spare baskets to create the wooden drainage boards on the deck around the pelorus etc. I have yet to find and fit a compass binnacle and the North Star set that contains one as well as other fittings I need is currently out of stock across the globe! 

Enough gabbling, please see pics below, all comments welcome although I will say some cleaning up is still required 😊

 

 

 

You can see the bridge windscreen uprights keep getting caught by my sausage fingers but they are proving very resilient!

 

 

 

 

Ekins appears to have a curved bulkhead on the aft of the director, I also replaced the bridge screen either side with plastic card.

 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited October 17, 2020 by mick b