1/72 - Dewotine D.520 by Hobby 2000 (Hase rebox) - release May 2020

[caughtinthemiddle]

These should be available in the coming days. Each features a masking sheet and Cartograf-printed decals for 3 marking options

 

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

THANK YOU THERE IS A HEAVEN !!!  Ive been looking for one of these for awhile. 

[manuel]

Hello, great news.

Have you a link to the different  markings?

Thank you

[TEMPESTMK5]

4 hours ago, manuel said:

Hello, great news.

Have you a link to the different  markings?

Thank you

Good afternoon Manuel

I guess that it will be announced soon on scalemates

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hobby-2000-72025-dewoitine-d520-france-1940--1286428

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hobby-2000-72026-dewoitine-d520-over-africa--1286429

 

Patrice

[caughtinthemiddle]

Marking options:

72025:

72026:

[occa]

Cross of Lorraine is the wrong color, IMO it should be blue not red.
There is a thread about this here somewhere but ATM I am too lazy to look for it.

 

Here I believe this interpretation is correct:

Also I'd be interested where they got the overall pinkish-sand color of that last option from ?
Very interesting scheme if true  

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, occa said:

Cross of Lorraine is the wrong color, IMO it should be blue not red.
There is a thread about this here somewhere but ATM I am too lazy to look for it.

 

Here I believe this interpretation is correct:

Also I'd be interested where they got the overall pinkish-sand color of that last option from ?
Very interesting scheme if true  

Is this the thread for the sand profile ? 

If its correct I definitely will be doing one. 
 

Dennis

[occa]

@Corsairfoxfouruncle

I mean another thread,  it was only about the Lorraine crosses if I recall it correctly.

 

Btw re that thread you brought up, there is a color photo of a D.520 in flight somewhere on Jeffrey J. Ethell's now defunkt site, tho it is without Lorraine crosses and somehow the color very light and-or bleached:

 

Edit: But it is from the Jack Canary collection, found it anyways:

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 minute ago, occa said:

@Corsairfoxfouruncle

I mean another thread,  it was only about the Lorraine crosses if I recall it correctly.

 

Btw re that thread you brought up, there is a color photo of a D.520 in flight somewhere on Jeffrey J. Ethell's now defunkt site, tho ut is without Lorraine crosses and somehow the color very light and-or bleached:

Ahh so this one maybe ? 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 minutes ago, occa said:

Btw re that thread you brought up, there is a color photo of a D.520 in flight somewhere on Jeffrey J. Ethell's now defunkt site, tho ut is without Lorraine crosses and somehow the color very light and-or bleached:

Yes its the photo taken from below off the forward SB quarter isnt it ? 

[occa]

8 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Yes its the photo taken from below off the forward SB quarter isnt it ? 

Yes that one,  I've just embedded it in my post above.
Now I've just discovered I had already posted it in the 'Dewotoine D.520 overall sand' thread.

 

Cheers
Martin

[manuel]

6 hours ago, caughtinthemiddle said:

Marking options:

72025:

72026:

Thank you.

For the sand D520 perhaps a light stone, because none sand on french colours, and this D520 fly with others GB planes.

Manuel

[Graham Boak]

1 hour ago, occa said:

Cross of Lorraine is the wrong color, IMO it should be blue not red.

Not necessarily.  It seems that initially they were blue, on those aircraft used in Chad and similarly, but that red became much more common.  Possibly because the blue didn't stand out enough.  There is a short (and to my eye insufficient but that may be my French) account of this in Chris Ehrengardt's book on French camouflage in WW2 (strongly recommended),  He seems to be suggesting that there was considerable variety,  Published view(s) of this aircraft are a bit ambiguous to my eye but tend to a darker shade rather than the lighter blue.  If the colour is not actually known, then red is a fair suggestion.

[caughtinthemiddle]

As you can see from the linked thread, it seems we will never know for sure whether the crosses on these D.520 were red or blue. On the available photos of this machine, one could confirm the red option, the remaining ones are not definitive in any way.
As for the colour of this aircraft, I personally thought they could be light blue-grey overall, but then found this information:
Many Souffan vient de me confirmer la couleur chamois de ces D520 qui lui aurait été inidiquée par un des mécaniciens de l'époque Denis Larrivet. Selon ce monsieur encore vivant en 2001 Littolf aurait eu l'intention à cette époque d'emmener ces avions dans le désert Lybien.

[occa]

15 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Not necessarily.  It seems that initially they were blue, on those aircraft used in Chad and similarly, but that red became much more common.  Possibly because the blue didn't stand out enough.  There is a short (and to my eye insufficient but that may be my French) account of this in Chris Ehrengardt's book on French camouflage in WW2 (strongly recommended),  He seems to be suggesting that there was considerable variety,  Published view(s) of this aircraft are a bit ambiguous to my eye but tend to a darker shade rather than the lighter blue.  If the colour is not actually known, then red is a fair suggestion.

According to info from the linked thread it was vice versa, first they reportedly were red but later they were blue. There is a color photo of a Lodestar with French roundels from 1944 (see the invasion stripes also on the C-47 in the backgrouns) where they are blue.

 

 

The Marauder in the French museum has them in blue too

[Graham Boak]

What a nasty question to raise at the end of the day!  However, after some overnight  heart-searching (and a little relief at having pointing out my lack of  fluency in French) I have returned to the references.  I did underestimate how much time and space Chris Ehrengardt devoted to this matter.  He points out that the traditional symbol of Lorraine was a blue cross on a red background, but this lacked visibility.  He is quite definite that the first examples in Chad were with a blue cross - despite the specific order of October 1940 specifying red.  There is another deeper discussion of the Chad operations in another French source which is tantalisingly stored "somewhere".  Perhaps this was because of avoiding possibilities of confusion with the Swiss Red Cross on ambulance aircraft.  Operations by Free French pilots in 1941 in the Western Desert with Hurricane Mk.Is were with blue crosses - there also a picture of a 1942 Hurricane Mk.II with red crosses.  Once a "semi-civil" air route was established across Africa, the aircraft wore red.  Examples can be found of different types in red, and in blue.  There is even one example of a Blenheim with a red cross on a white disc adjacent to a light cross on the camouflage.  The Cross of Lorraine worn in small form by French Spitfire units in the UK was red, no doubt because of their proximity to headquarters!  Which probably also applies to the transports, making the Lodestar a stand-out.

 

As to the specific examples shown, these may simply be random chance, but remember that the Marauders were formed from ex-Vichy units, some of which were decidedly anti-De Gaulle and the Free French, so perhaps they might well turn to the traditional colour of Lorraine?

 

The D.520 rather falls across the timescales,.  Is 1942 still early enough to be carrying Blue?  Or as a disciplined group would they carry out the orders of HQ?  In the photos, red is dark, blue is lighter, and the cross is darker than the lighter tone.  However, the colour it ought to have been was red.  I would agree that chamois isn't that pink.

[occa]

Dunno when this foto was taken but if the surround of the roundel is red at least the Cross must be blue too:

 

[Graham Boak]

I suggest that the surround is the yellow ring painted out - although apparently it was sometimes retained.  I don't think I've seen a photo of that.  In view of the darkness of the rudder stripes. I don't think it is possible to distinguish between the blue and the red, and suspect both may have been RAF dark colours anyway.  It is also interesting to note the differences in tone of the camouflage (TLS on the nearest and Desert on the further two?), but the dark underside looks odd too.  Some film/filter effect, or is this LMB after all?  The Mk.I photo in CJE's book is from the starboard side, and shows a medium/light colour for the cross with the background overpainted in the lighter camouflage colour (slightly lighter so perhaps fresher?): TLS with a much lighter underside.  Sadly there's no hint from the rudder as it isn't in the photo.

[JWM]

7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

There is even one example of a Blenheim with a red cross on a white disc adjacent to a light cross on the camouflage. 

here

https://www.alamy.com/ww2-the-free-french-air-force-in-africa-image235065763.html

J-W

 

[occa]

1 hour ago, JWM said:

here

https://www.alamy.com/ww2-the-free-french-air-force-in-africa-image235065763.html

J-W

 

IMO that is likely blue too compared to the underside roundel

[caughtinthemiddle]

Inbox review of both boxings: https://www.kfs-miniatures.com/1-72-dewoitine-d-520-hobby-2000/