1/48 Gloster Gladiator - which kit?

[Rumblestripe]

I have signed up for the BoB Group build intending to "do" a Spitfire, but now I'm toying with the idea of a Gladiator as I believe that two squadrons operated them with some very minor involvement including taking potshots at an errant Heinkel 111 near South West England (247 Squadron flying Mk2 Gladiators IIRC).

 

I like building in 1/48 and I've had a look at what's available

 

Lindberg - an antique in itself!

Roden - the latest but not easy to build and with poor engine and cowling

Merit - lacking detail but good basic shape

Life-like, Impact, Pyro... there seems to be a baffling number of kits that may or may not be a good choice.

 

My "philosophy" (if I can glorify it with such an epithet) is to build a decent representation of the subject accurate to the modeller's eye. Also I should stress that this would be a first biplane for me and a venture into the black arts of rigging. I've read and enjoyed @Crimea River's build of the Roden kit and noted his photographic sources.

so, please any help guiding me to choose the best kit and any aftermarket stuff that is worth considering (I know there is a rather nice looking cowling and engine in resin for the Roden kit - which costs nearly as much as the kit).

 

Thanks

 

[Work In Progress]

The Lindberg kit IS out of the Inpact / Pyro / Lifelike tooling, but much much less well produced than proper Inpact or Pyro examples.

 

The chronological order of release was Inpact (1968), Pyro (1969), Lifelike ( 1970) and then it fell into the hands of Lindberg in the early 80s.

 

I don't have any Lifelike boxings but I have many Inpact and Pyro ones. It is the most accurate 1/48 Gladiator in terms of outline and when it came out 52 years ago was one of the best plastic model kits ever produced. It is still capable of producing a top class result today with a little effort put in to rescribe the limited areas of metal panelling and drill out the exhausts and gun barrels. It does need a cockpit scratch-building, and a vac-form canopy (Falcon/Squadron). Like any of these kits it will benefit from a nice resin Mercury engine, the Vector one is nice.  You can buy the Inpact or Pyro kit readily for about £15 from the usual second-hand sources. It has the only correct cowl in 1/48.

 

Don't bother with Lindberg issues of the Inpact tooling, they tend to have hard-to-fix sinkage in the flying surfaces.

 

The 2002-onwards Roden kit is not the latest (that's the Merit / Trumpeter kit) but was most recently issued by Eduard, and is also worth building. Obviously a lot more modern but needs the wingtips reprofiling, they are too blunt, too close to semi-circular.  The Eduard version of the kit comes with a massive and very diverse decal sheet which is well worth using up on some Inpact ones (as you would expect after 50 years Inpact / Pyro ones are rarely usable).  Roden-boxed Roden kits often have poor decals so if you can find a cheap second had one of those that's another good tactic to use up an Eduard sheet. The Eduard version of the kit also comes with all the parts: both props., both canopies, ski undercarriage, Sea Gladiator bits etc. So it's not just the decals, you can also use some of those parts to mix and match with Inpact kits. 

You can see the Eduard decal options and instructions here .

https://www.eduard.com/eduard/gladiator-1-48.html

The Eduard version of the kit was only 3000 units so they are not in the shops but if you keep an eye open they do come up on ebay and the usual dealers. KingKit has a couple in at the moment

https://www.kingkit.co.uk/product/eduard-aircraft-1-48-1145-gloster-gladiator-limited-edition

 

I would not bother with the 2015/2016 Merit / Trumpeter kit: it has a very poor cowl shape and is also expensive. It might make a reasonable source of detail parts for cross-kitting with an Inpact one but I would rather pick up a Roden or ideally an Eduard if spending more than Inpact money.

 

Decal-wise there is little to touch the various Pheon sets available here: 

https://www.pheondecals.com/148.html

 

though there are plenty of other after-market options, some of which are fine. Just depends what schemes you want to build really.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Paul Thompson]

Small addition to the above - Airwaves do a detail set for the Inpact et al kit, and it is one of their better ones, if you're put off by scratch building details.

 

Paul.

[Work In Progress]

Just now, Paul Thompson said:

Small addition to the above - Airwaves do a detail set for the Inpact et al kit, and it is one of their better ones, if you're put off by scratch building details.

 

Paul.

True, I had forgotten that. You can also use the Yahu instrument panels on the Inpact or Roden kits

http://www.karaya.pl/en/yahu-models/11/gloster-gladiator-mk-i-late-mk-ii-instrument-panel-for-roden-eduard-yma4832.html

[Work In Progress]

Rigging: remember that these aircraft were rigged with streamline section RAFwire solid rods, not with cables. So ideally you want to rig with a section that reflects that width. There are (very) expensive photo-etched sets to do this, but the way I prefer is with this (also applies to Furies, Hart variants, etc)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slaters-1002-010-x-020-Microstrip-50-Lengths-NEW/133372352905

 

That said, if you rig with monofilament and give it a dusting of paint via drybrushing that works well enough for most people.

[alt-92]

Alternatively - as the Gladiator is not the biggest aircraft - there might be more available for the 1/32 ICM kit. 
Just a thought...

[Duncan B]

Just a quick price check on Scalemates shows the Roden kit £4 more expensive than the Merit/Trumpeter kit.

 

Duncan B

[gingerbob]

Work in Progress, since you seem well up on Gladiator kits, what's "wrong" with the Roden cowling?  I do remember that it is supposed to be a nuisance to get together.  I don't have any of the Merit kit, but I've got a reasonable supply of Roden ones.  (The Gladiator is one of those types I'll buy in every scale.)

[Work In Progress]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:44 AM, gingerbob said:

Work in Progress, since you seem well up on Gladiator kits, what's "wrong" with the Roden cowling?  I do remember that it is supposed to be a nuisance to get together.  

I was about to say "I didn't say the Roden cowl was wrong" but then I looked back at what I originally wrote yesterday. And while I didn't call it out by name specifically on shape, I see now that  I did give it an implicit drive-by shooting which, on reflection, was unhelpful.  So I've tweaked my wording in my long post above for greater fairness, as ithe Roden cowl does not deserve equal slagging for shape with the undoubtedly dodgy Merit one. 

 

However, while I'm here I may as well address the Roden cowl specifically. While usable with care it is second-best in its scale, and while the shape is livable it's an unintelligent piece of tooling design. Its worst fault is that for no discernable reason whatsoever it is made in three parts which are an absolute swine to assemble in a true circle, in contrast to the one-piece Inpact one. You really need to build a little assembly jig out of Lego and blu-tac, or whatever floats your jig-building boat.  Or if you have the facilities to turn a couple of inches of broom-handle down to an appropriate diameter, then you can build it by wrapping it around a wooden core and sliding it off when it's all set.

 

Having the upper section of the cowl divided into two kit parts, and running the break right down the middle of the top-centre blister, is a bit unhelpful too.  It is very easy to end up with a flattened top blister where it is extremely noticeable on the finished model, especially as the Roden blisters are shallower than the Inpact ones in the first place. 

 

If you plan to make multiple kits - which in my view any right-thinking Gladiator fan should - you may as well build the cowl assemblies for all of them one wet Sunday while you have the jig handy. 

 

On a more nit-picky level, the Roden cowl lacks the two little curved bites out of the collector ring lip just below the 3 and 9 o'clock positions, and I like the surface detailing less than on the Inpact one, especially the rather aggressive Roden treatment of the straps which join the full-size sections across the exhaust manifolds. I also prefer the taper of the blisters on the Inpact kit.  Finally, for my money the rear diameter of the ring, where the cooling air emerges, is a trifle too large, but only by around 1mm., and I think this is connected to the nose of the Roden fuselage rounding down less progressively than the Inpact fuselage does.  Finally, on my Roden Roden at least, it's quite flashy whereas all my Inpact and Pyro kits are completely flash-free.

 

It's far from the car-crash that the Merit cowl is, though, and I will use Roden cowls with careful assembly and a bit of filing here and there, and some choice muttering about the parts breakdown.

 

The Inpact one wants the two fore-aft raised panel lines rescribed , the ones which separate the upper cowl from the lower cowl, and it can stand to have the rear lip thinned by scraping or filing from inside. I actually prefer to leave the raised panel line that marks the boundary of the cowl to the collector ring as it makes the whole thing easier to paint, and you can't really spot that it's raised on a finished model with the unaided eye from normal viewing distance. But if you wanted you could rescribe that too. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Work In Progress

[gingerbob]

Thanks for the thorough answer!  Incidentally, this thread (and working on a 72nd Airfix) have me wanting to get out a Roden kit.  Although I haven't made a really diligent effort (more like a "half-diligent" one so far) I haven't yet been able to lay my eyes and then hands on one, even though I've probably got about five.  I'll go try another "big box"...

 

Edit: Eureka!

Edited May 20, 2020 by gingerbob

[Work In Progress]

Just randomly spotted this while I was looking for other things. SBS do very nice Mercuries and this set of theirs gives you the cowl and exhaust as well as a superb engine. It's not cheap but for anyone looking for a show-stopper 1/48 Gladiator of any make it will raise the tone of proceedings https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SBS-Model-48057-Gloster-Gladiator-Mk-I-Mk-II-Engine-Cowling-1-48-Merit-Kit/223455353724

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Crimea River]

On 5/19/2020 at 11:23 AM, Work In Progress said:

Rigging: remember that these aircraft were rigged with streamline section RAFwire solid rods, not with cables. So ideally you want to rig with a section that reflects that width. There are (very) expensive photo-etched sets to do this, but the way I prefer is with this (also applies to Furies, Hart variants, etc)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slaters-1002-010-x-020-Microstrip-50-Lengths-NEW/133372352905

 

That said, if you rig with monofilament and give it a dusting of paint via drybrushing that works well enough for most people.

I found this stuff to be extremely easy to work with and yes, it's rectangular in cross section.

 

 

Drill .3mm holes at all fastening locations. Roughly measure the length needed and, for 1/48, subtract about 5mm for the interplane rigging and maybe 3mm for the cabane and other shorter needs. CA glue one end, dip the other end in CA and accelerator in the receiving hole, stretch the rigging and insert. You just have to watch that it lays so that the long side is parallel to the air flow.

 

The Roden Gladiator that I built and that is mentioned in the first post featured this method. It was my first real rigging job (apart from the Tamiya Swordfish for which I bought the dedicated PE rigging set) and this method is something that I'll continue with as it makes things very easy. In fact, the PE stuff proved to be a pain as it was too long in several cases and therefore buckled into unsightly bends before being rectified. The elastic material will stay straight, no matter what. 

[85sqn]

I've built the Roden and I have built the Merit kits.

 

Roden kits have a poorly engineered engine and cowling and in general is a tricky little kit. I found the undercarriage to be a pain and the lack of positive fit. It's been back forwards from the shelf of doom.

 

Merit has some squiffy looking parts but it is more simple and a quicker build. In fact you could knock it together over a weekend

 

Depends what you want and 'car crash' is far too strong wording to describe the Merit kit. The cowling is its greatest issue however.

 

I'm a plus one of Prym rigging having used it on an ICM Glad recently as well as eazi-line and Uschi Van Der Rosten.

 

Either way, enjoy.

[Rumblestripe]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:18 PM, Work In Progress said:

Just randomly spotted this while I was looking for other things. SBS do very nice Mercuries and this set of theirs gives you the cowl and exhaust as well as a superb engine. It's not cheap but for anyone looking for a show-stopper 1/48 Gladiator of any make it will raise the tone of proceedings https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SBS-Model-48057-Gloster-Gladiator-Mk-I-Mk-II-Engine-Cowling-1-48-Merit-Kit/223455353724

 

Yes, I've seen these in t'Bay (as no-one in Yorkshire would say) and they do look incredible it set me to wondering how much I could replicate in styrene...

 

People keep mentioning the "problems with the cowl" on the Roden kit, is it simply the fiddly nature of the assembly or is it a fundamental problem like the wrong profile? (I know from reading @Crimea River's build that the notches for the machine gun "output" are absent but easily fixed) and I will look to use some of his build if I go ahead (which is looking likely)

 

Another question, if you'll indulge me, the Roden kits appear to come in different boxings. Obviously, I want to build the example I quoted for 247 Squadron in 1940 are any of the boxings more or less suitable for my endeavour? I don't want to end up with a box with no RAF markings (for example) when one of the alternate boxings for a few quids more has exactly what I need.

 

Thanks again to everyone helping on this enquiry, stay safe, model on.

[Work In Progress]

2 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

People keep mentioning the "problems with the cowl" on the Roden kit, is it simply the fiddly nature of the assembly or is it a fundamental problem like the wrong profile?

Not sure I can be any more detailed than I was in post #9. In terms of basic shape it is usable: it's just not as good as the Inpact one.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Paul Thompson]

2 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

 

 

People keep mentioning the "problems with the cowl" on the Roden kit, is it simply the fiddly nature of the assembly or is it a fundamental problem like the wrong profile? (I know from reading @Crimea River's build that the notches for the machine gun "output" are absent but easily fixed) and I will look to use some of his build if I go ahead (which is looking likely)

 

Another question, if you'll indulge me, the Roden kits appear to come in different boxings. Obviously, I want to build the example I quoted for 247 Squadron in 1940 are any of the boxings more or less suitable for my endeavour? I don't want to end up with a box with no RAF markings (for example) when one of the alternate boxings for a few quids more has exactly what I need.

 

 

The cowl is fine if you trim the engine a bit. The shape is okay. Advice from Tom Cleaver in his Modelling Madness review:

 

>

   The kit is basically quite simple to build, and following the instructions revealed only the following "areas of difficulty":

      When assembling the cowling and engine, you should follow these steps in this order:

      1.  Assemble and clean up the cowling and paint the interior. 

     2.  Paint, assemble and clean up the engine, without the exhaust stacks. 

     3.   Once the engine is set up, sand down the "blocks" on the ends of the sleeve valves, until the engine will slide easily into the cowling. 

     4.   Attach the exhaust stacks. 

     5.   Attach the engine inside the cowling. <

 

The Eduard boxing has all the parts as mentioned above - most  Roden boxings had alternate sprues for various versions, but they're all in the Eduard box. IIRC the Roden Meteorological Flight boxing also has all the parts. Don't remember if that was mentioned before and in a rush so no time to check.

 

Paul.

[Work In Progress]

2 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

Another question, if you'll indulge me, the Roden kits appear to come in different boxings. Obviously, I want to build the example I quoted for 247 Squadron in 1940 are any of the boxings more or less suitable for my endeavour

You will want this one: Roden kit 401

 

Comes with N5585 "B",  247 Squadron at Roborough, August 1940, P.O. Francis

see review here: https://modelingmadness.com/scott/allies/gb/glad2preview.htm

 

Bear in mind though that Roden decals are often sucky, but the markings for that aeroplane are mostly completely generic, it's just the usual roundels and 8 inch black serials which you can source from anywhere, so all you really need to work from the kit sheet is the two letters B, and the personal kangaroo marking.

 

This version of the kit is another which comes with all the various parts.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Work In Progress]

7 hours ago, 85sqn said:

'car crash' is far too strong wording to describe the Merit kit. The cowling is its greatest issue however.

I was referring specifically to the cowl - that entire post was only about the various cowls on the three kits - but to make it impossible to misconstrue, I have edited a word 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Work In Progress]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:22 PM, Crimea River said:

Drill .3mm holes at all fastening locations.

Incidentally if rigging this way, which does work quite well, another advantage of the Inpact kit is that all those locatiing holes for the rigging are pre-done for you.

[Rumblestripe]

Thanks to everyone that's chipped in. I've bought the Roden kit in the boxing suggested by @Work In Progress and the improved instrument panel by Yahu. Both coming from Poland for no particular reason other than they were cheapest and I'm in particular hurry as the GB doesn't start until July 20th. I can't justify the super whizzo engine and cowl in resin as it is not beyond the realm of possibility that I will muck up the rigging! I couldn't find a reasonably priced Eduard model though by the time I'm done spending on bits and pieces it might have been better to buy the Eduard. Ho hum.

 

A last request.

 

As I am expecting the Roden transfers to be, err, challenging, what are the alternatives to allow me to mark up as an aircraft from 247 squadron in Aug 1940?

 

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Work In Progress]

If you put some clearcoat over the Roden sheet you will be fine with the only ones you really need, those individual to the aircraft: they are small and don;t need to conform a lot.

The larger ones, the roundels and fin flashes you can just cull from any generic Xtradecal sheet.

And some Roden sheets are okay.

Just test a few from elsewhere on the sheet on a scrap component to see how much handling they will take, what sort of technique to use, and whether they are prone to shattering.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Crimea River]

12 hours ago, 85sqn said:

I've built the Roden and I have built the Merit kits.

 

Roden kits have a poorly engineered engine and cowling and in general is a tricky little kit. I found the undercarriage to be a pain and the lack of positive fit. It's been back forwards from the shelf of doom.....

 

It would help if Roden got the numbers of the u/c legs correct in the instructions! Once I figured out that the instructions were wrong, there was a little bit of work to get the fairings to fit but I did get them to work eventually with a little bit of putty. @Rumblestripe take note!