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Spitfire PR XIX, Airfix 72nd..... as I thought it would be easy...


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Hmm, looks like it didn't do a bits shot....  

I have 3 of these as it turns out, two bagged courtesy of @trickydicky210 which originated form a BBMF set, and a boxed one from Home Bargains, that was picked up for me by another member.  (as I asked politely as there is not one near me)

 

Anyway,  another one is in a started box, I was making a PR XI,  and I found this ..

SpitPR101.jpg

 

Now, not the clearest of images,  A PR MK XIX of 101 PR Flt at Palam in the early 1950s. Note overall PR blue scheme and white band on tail. 

This is Indian Airforce,  and as well as the white tail band,  it has white wing tips, just about visible....

 

Ohh, I thought, now that's different,  and in a poke around in the black hole of a stash,  a started Seahawk 100 had two sets of decals, (from the same source of the bagged XIX) and had Indian roundels that looked about right size.  

 

Some more inquiries, and I was sent some scan by @Sky dancer  which show the scheme better.   (I'l edit in )

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072932-spitfire-pr-xix-indian-air-force-question/

 

And this is why the scheme is appealing, as PR XIX is erm, either PRU blue overall, or with Medium Sea Grey uppers....

49904703273_113f63e6bd_b.jpgPRXIX HS961 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

so white bands and saffron/white/green roundels....

 

49904702158_ede2a272f9_b.jpgPRXIX unidentified by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

EDIT and just found this...here of course...  Too give yo an idea of why I found the scheme so appealing...

SAM_1135.jpg

 

 

So, have approx roundels, have generic serials,  have paint that will do for fin flash.....   

 

Simple little kit, what could go wrong....

 

One thing, the wings are too broad in chord...

49904314443_b4e37c2364_b.jpg50621307 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

red pen shows the difference

yes, it's a Spit 22, but the wing outline is the same (I also used another to check) and the engine is in the same place....

 

port/left wing below is corrected, starboard/right is not,  look at cutting matt lines.

 

49904313313_38fc15d573_b.jpg50621309 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

How difficult is it to mould wheel well walls when you have already made a lip..... 

added wall from 5 thou card.... and thinned down the leg section edges

49904830451_fc3b6eebe0_b.jpg50621310 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

left before trimming, right after a trim. 

the white stuff is tippex, from an attempt to reduce the Matchbox style trenches...

I also used a razor saw dragged to add some radiator face detail.... later realised it has rad faces....

 

I'll do a quick cockpit ..famous last words.....  more in a mo.... more coffee is required

 

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49904827521_fd06d2390d_b.jpg50621313 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

Since I though it was liable to be visible, I made a seat back, which is ribbed black leather, and straps, out of thin lead foil, had to make a slot in the seat armour, and made a hole in the rear pressure bulkhead for a bit of wire for the straps to attach too. 

see here 

http://spitfiresite.com/2011/06/guided-tour-of-the-spitfire-pr-mk-xix-–-the-pressurised-cockpit.html

 

I had to drop the seat, as it was too high, and trim plastic off the bottom.  I think it's too deep in fact... or maybe the part the rudder pedal attach to is too high....

 

49905127202_b4f1049d9d_b.jpg50621312 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

as I had to trim off the bottom of the control column so it was about the right height.  I did add a bit of grey plastic to the IP for the camera control box, as I though this would show up as well. Just about visible here.

 

The Grey Green is a starter set Humbrol 78, and it seems to have fine sand mixed into it... 

 

Anyway,  overall this was going well.  

 

I tried the technique of adding the upper wings to the fuselage first.  Note plastic strip reinforcements.

 

Also added some wheel well boxing and some ribbing, and cut the leg apertures out of the plastic card well liners, and deepened the hinge lines on the aileron...

Edit - replacement pic,  which shows a blank upper wing, and if you look closely at the far left unmodified lower wing, the lack of full wheel, and the thick gear leg section.

49905410811_f0c82aa233_b.jpg50620002 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the more attentive will note the open seam on the nose....

This is because the above is the rebuild....

I'd done the fuselage, added upper wings,  left it overnight.....

 

Next day, looking from the front....

Damn, tail fin is warped..... popped open seam, twisted... looked more....oh sugar, the nose is twisted.

 

Perhaps had used a too strong clamp, perhaps it was the plastic card added to allow a bit of brass tube to be added for the prop...... pop open nose seam, 

Get nose, twist it....

BANG!  

wings fly off, fuselage splits on port side at the pressure bulkhead....... I'd attached with TET and looks like it had softened the plastic. 

I use superglue and TET,  and now am thinking of just sticking to SG for internals unless they require a proper join.....

 

Anyway...cue a lengthy rebuild, taking out internals, cleaning up,  reattach, and leave nose seam open to see if twist can be adjusted when tailplanes and wings are on as will have visual cues for alignment.....

 

So much for a quick and easy build.......   to be continued.....

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I have to admire your persistence and not giving in... that looks like a major rebuild. Pushing through drawbacks is part of modelling and you learn so much more by overcoming these little disasters... and we all have them. Some, unfortunately, condemn their kits to the 'shelf of doom'... the better modellers dust themselves off and get on with it. I'm looking forward to your next post... I am sure it will be fine and there will be a lesson there for everyone.

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2 minutes ago, Bill Livingston said:

I am sure it will be fine and there will be a lesson there for everyone.

Get a better kit!   

I should have just gone 1/48th with this....for reasons best left to confines of therapy,  I now have 8 1/48th PR XIX kits.... or is it 9? .... (Modelzone sale... Airfix Black friday sale...and the ones on here that came with various amounts of bells and whistles....)

 

6 minutes ago, Bill Livingston said:

I'm looking forward to your next post...

 

It's been moving on,  slowly.  But has been educational..... 

 

cheers

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State of play at the mo.....

 

After the rebuild, and then messing about with trying to get everything aligned.....I forgot to take pics,  suffice to say it took a fair bit of fettling...

gaps mostly filled (as in the leading edge, due to the wing surgery) and other places with plastic sheet with SG.  

Then rounds of sanding and Mr Surfacer 

A coat of Tamiya XF-20 Grey, as it has a bit more bite than Vallejo,  

Canopy Kleered,  masked, and painted,  dimwit forgot to paint matt varnish before the masking came off,  as it's Xtracrylix PRU Blue, see prop on pot top right...which is glossy....still the kleer needs a touch up...

 

49905407481_d08c249694_b.jpg50620005 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the comedy value continued, I saw light was dimly visible from the bottom camera opening, painting them black behind looked poor, so wiped it off, and added a piece of black plastic in the fuselage.... not thinking I added drops of SG, which would have been OK, except I turned the fuselage up, glue ran down on the fuse camera window.....

cue removal of card, and then trying to repolish the inside as it had fogged...  in the end I popped it out, cleaned it, and Kleered it.   I redid the black card with high strength PVA...

At least it made me decant a small pot of it, it Wudcare 5 minute waterproof PVA,  which is really good for woodworking and small model jobs, it has a quick grab 5 min set.

 

I've made a start on the white bands.... I'm sure I had some Tamiya white....but where?  the Vallejo has needed 4 coats.   Next, mask - paint - mask tail flash

painted white, mask off centre band and edges, paint saffron and green, mask that.... I hope.  As far as i can judge from the photos, and presuming at this date they still used feet and inches,  the flash seems 24 inch high and 27 inch wide, each stripe being 9 inch 

in 72nd,  that's 1/3rd inch high, and 9/24th wide,  each band being 3/24th wide.... (1/72 - 6 ft to inch, 1 ft being = 1/6th inch) 

 

and mask off white band and tips.....  the band looks to be 18 inch = 3/12th=1/4 inch,  and the tips look to be 3 ft,  I was looking at the photos,  and it look further in than the just the tip,  and working in imperial, measured out 3ft scale feet.... looked right so I suspect that this is what is used,  plus it's twice the width of the tail band 18 in, 3 ft being 36 inch....

 

then onto the joy of the right thinning mix for the Xtracrylix PRU Blue.....  I may even try out my ancient Humbrol Studio 1 airbrush simply as I manged to clean it (with an interdental) and I acquired cans of propellant at some point....

 

Now why didn't I start collecting diecasts.......

 

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7 hours ago, Bill Livingston said:

It will be fine in the end... they always are...

it'll be done...don't know about fine!

 

But,  having spent far too many years on here faffing about,  finishing  is good....    

 

Right, on with the show.    I mixed up some saffron,  and found a green that matched the Seahawk roundels. I had considered getting some Bright Spark IAF roundels,  but I've been very restrained during my 'holiday'  and only recently bought a book (Bulgarian Fighter Colours 2, as it was cheap and the whole series are great) and some No.10 scalpel blades,  as I was down to my last one...

 

OK, I went for 9 inch stripes, masked the centre bar and sides and .... after 3 coats

49906659948_bb6f76e014_b.jpg50620008 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

And then I left it for a few hours.   Did it work?

 

49907173931_bbbe5702a9_b.jpg50620009 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

I think that will do.  I have Kleered round the edges of the fuselage and tail band.....

 

What other joys, a missed bit of filling on the starboard wing root edge, and forgot the filler cap on the fuselage fuel tank.....I scribed in 1.8mm circle, I wasn't about to try to recess it...(looking at the pics that has worked though)

 

and with some trepidation,  I thinned down some Xtracrylix PRU blue, water and flow  improver  and got brushing with a No.6 flat brush.....

(I am not a number, i am, a free brush...) 

the fin flas colours are in shot, Vallejo Intermediate Green and Light Orange, with a little Green Brown added to tone it down to match the decals.

49907172836_30f6fa5f68_b.jpg50620010 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

Wow, this stuff goes off fast.  I was able to do 2 coats,  by the time I'd got to the end, I could start again..I had remembered I'd bought a roll of 36mm delicate Frog tape (to do a floor I'd just varnished) and taped off the wing tips.....which really helped with the painting.

 

I was very glad of the Tamiya undercoat, as the paint went on well, a touch streaky,  but i'm expecting another coat or two...

 

and it fell off the skewer, and the paint was touch dry already, fortunately!

 

.... and I forgot to mask the camera windows,  so I was being very careful around them....

 

49907172426_b3097d1d7f_b.jpg50620011 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

49907176076_385db98cda_b.jpg50620013 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the finish is not great close up, I think some gentle sanding will help.  The Seahawk roundels are just visible in this shot. as are my high tech straps...

As well as the yak spinners I painted up as well.

 

Hmm, never did a plane in PRU blue before,  it's very fetching.    I rather pleased at the mo.  

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Nice subject choice Troy :thumbsup:  Love seeing anything in PRU Blue and the Indian roundels are a colourful bonus.

 

My only question is the seatbelt arrangement. As a pressurised cockpit were they not of the type that went over a bar above the seat and anchored down the back of the frame?

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Very interesting subject Troy.

 

I caught up with this late in your build and you clearly know all about the problems with the 1/72 Airfix Spit XIX, but one thing I can't see you've mentioned are the Airfix props which IMO really let the model down. I found that the Aires Quickboost spinner/props made a big difference to the model.

 

Best wishes for the rest of the build.

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1 hour ago, Col. said:

My only question is the seatbelt arrangement. As a pressurised cockpit were they not of the type that went over a bar above the seat and anchored down the back of the frame?

I used the PR XIX from the Swedish Airforce museum as a guide, which co-incidentally is ex Indian

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/aircraft/past/919-spitfire.html#Mk XIx

Quote

PM 627

This Spitfire became HS 694 and was TOC RAF 20.9.45. It moved to No 9 MU on 4.6.52 and was sold to Vickers Armstrong on 15.2.53 and then onto No 1 PR Squadron IAF in 1953. It moved to No 1 BRD in 1955 and back to No 1 PR Squadron till 1957 and then stored at Palam till 1970. Recovered to Canada on 3.2.71 and then to Swedish AF Museum in 1982.

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2011/06/guided-tour-of-the-spitfire-pr-mk-xix-–-the-pressurised-cockpit.html

 

on this 

http://spitfiresite.com/2011/06/guided-tour-of-the-spitfire-pr-mk-xix-–-the-pressurised-cockpit.html/bsc06638

Quote

The pilot’s seat harness go through a slot in the rear armoured plate and are anchored in the rear pressure bulkhead behind the cockpit.

just about visible here i think?

BSC06640-640x480.jpg

 

Anyway... I shall have a browse of Spitfire the History later,  and I'll put in a @gingerbob  as he's rather good on these things.

 

I can always poke it down flat anyway!  

 

I gave the model a light sand today, to remove some ridges and bits,  and cleaned and Kleered the camera ports, and then had a go at punching some masking tape discs with a leather punch,  but was waiting for the Kleer to dry.....

 

cheers

T

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Just now, Johnson said:

but one thing I can't see you've mentioned are the Airfix props which IMO really let the model down. I found that the Aires Quickboost spinner/props made a big difference to the model.

Not mentioned, but not unnoticed.  

I spotted the prop blades are erm, rather chunky.... they have been on a severe scrape and sand diet and now look OK, as the flat profile is right.  Will be  a comparison photo later.  Thanks for the reminder.

The spinner look OK apart from the trench, which I may fill,   and I really don't want to spring for any AM for it.   I did consider nabbing a spare set of UC legs/wheels from an Eduard kit. 

cheers

T

 

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Just caught up with this, Troy, and you appear to be making good progress. I think the prop is too small, the one from the Airfix 22 is more appropriate.

 

I'm looking forward to see it finished.

 

PS. I still have that bag of spares for you, not sure when it'll get delivered.

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1 hour ago, Beard said:

I think the prop is too small, the one from the Airfix 22 is more appropriate

I shall compare them later and report back.   

 

1 hour ago, Beard said:

I'm looking forward to see it finished.

me too!   

 

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3 hours ago, Beard said:

I think the prop is too small, the one from the Airfix 22 is more appropriate.

I had a look,  and, yes it's smaller than 22/24 prop,slightly.  As the 22/24 prop is too small for the 22/24 kit, and the blades are considerably more refined,  it would make an excellent replacement for the XIX blades.   

Got another coat on.  It's just occurred to me that some retarder may help,  as even with a fair amount of water/flow improver added to it, Xtracrylix goes off really fast,  and a found that a blob of paint can flow round a wing trailing edge,  and by the time you get to it,  while it brushes out there is a raised rim of the blob left.  

At least it's brushing well though....

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4 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

I had a look,  and, yes it's smaller than 22/24 prop,slightly.  As the 22/24 prop is too small for the 22/24 kit, and the blades are considerably more refined,  it would make an excellent replacement for the XIX blades.   

If you can get your hands on a Freightdog 22 update set, you'll be sorted (with the added bonus that you'll have outer cannon of the correct length for the 22).

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10 hours ago, Beard said:

If you can get your hands on a Freightdog 22 update set, you'll be sorted (with the added bonus that you'll have outer cannon of the correct length for the 22).

This set came up recently in @PlaStix  Spitfire 22 build. 

 It's OOP,  and to be honest,  I don't want to stump up for AM bits for what, in my mind, are "Toy Scale " kits... especially ones I picked up cheap...(hence not springing for proper decals) 

I'll clarify that statement,  I developed a thing for 1/48th in the summer of 77,  and 72nd fell out of favour.   I know plenty of folks here do great 72nd builds,  this, and other 72nd kits I have are "practice" for the 1/48th  masterpieces I fully intend to build :rofl2:  (these fantasies keep me going...) 

it's not called TOTS , "the one true scale" for nothing,  though that's from the 1/48th Armour chaps...    I know I should get out more but I've been told not too...

The 'practice' kits have actually got built to completion though..

 

I have also noticed that glitches in 72nd I notice less and don't bug me.... a fact regarding Airfix and their recent Hurricanes  that I regret, as they scaled up their 72nd glitches to 48th :weep:

 

I did used to complete 48th kits..... in 1978 at least  .... 

 

49830658836_89736921ab_b.jpgKits 78 crop 1 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

be thankful for no macro ....VY-Q still exists in mostly once piece, I did some pics but wasn't happy.  

 

Anyway, I digress....

 

Masking off...  Nothing like a bit of direct sun for fault picking ...

49913081312_60c3018702_b.jpg50620015 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

I'm really getting to like this colour.....

 

A couple of glitches on the fin flash and fuselage band,  which I have been touching up with a fine brush... The slight ridge left by the tape and glossy PRU blue have helped. 

 

natural diffuse light

 

49912784551_68db6cf34d_b.jpg50620017 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

49912783081_6a04a49a10_b.jpg50620016 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

Overall I'm pleased, paint finish has improved,  the thinning mix of water, flow improver and retarder has made brushing Xtracrylix viable, which is great as I have a load of it....

 

Next...decals,  and do the Hobby Boss Seahawk ones work OK..... I shall test out some I won't use on scrap first. 

 

cheers all

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9 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Next...decals,  and do the Hobby Boss Seahawk ones work OK..... I shall test out some I won't use on scrap first. 

 

and... after a long time of careful concentration in the kitchen (I use the coffee machine hot plate to keep decal water hot) 

49913880008_11925155a9_b.jpg50620022 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

kit decals for wing walkways, (the little bit I had to jiggle into place has jiggled so well it blends in...was about 1cm between roundel and rest of walkway, and it does not go beyond, see ref photo) and i thin the prop blade markings are for a warbird, I may paint out part of it.

  Avieology serials (as seen behind) ,  and Hobby Boss roundels.  

The fuselage one chipped....

49913881178_768af1e957_b.jpg50620024 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

The Hobbyboss decals... impressively thin and, not that visible here, but certainly visible...not that opaque... there is a distinct split down the centre ..

If you loo at the reference pic (and another I was sent) the lower wing roundels are that far out.  Possibly there are underwing serials, the clearer shot I was sent doesn't appear to have them, perhaps painted out? 

A question perhaps for @Linescriber ?

 

.and this fuselage side also chipped, and is a touch lower...

 

Now, I do have another set of HB  roundels, so I'll try an overlay with those later.  

 

I'm pleased with the serial,  the spacing in not quite right,  but the straight and even... I'm looking at the image on flickr several times real size and it looks decent so I'm pretty happy, not having done that before.   

Given my years of procrastination, dithering and research rabbit holes this is the third decal job I've done since the early 90's, when I built a Ki-84, and before that it would have been 1982, and the most complex, using 3 different types and assembling a serial...

 

makes me more confident about actually now completing some more involved projects.

 

cheers

T

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This is looking good Troy. I was hoping someone else was going to do duty & ask about your method for addressing the over wide wing chord but no. :( I have seen mention if it before but not a how to fix, so, if you can expand on what you did would be appreciated, or point me toward where this has already been done, I have a couple to tackle along the way.

Steve.

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1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

I was hoping someone else was going to do duty & ask about your method for addressing the over wide wing chord but no. :( I have seen mention if it before but not a how to fix, so, if you can expand on what you did would be appreciated,

Hi Steve

Simple enough.  get a wing that is the right shape, (or good plans, my Cooke ones are, erm, somewhere) 

line up the trailing edge,  use correct shape wing to a draw line on XIX. (I used a very point permanant marker) see photo in post #1 

Trim XIX wing to line.

Trim back fuselage wing leading edge fairing.

You may well (I did) end up with some small gap here, I used bits of plastic card. 

 

I wasn't paying that much attention, I don't  think it took too much depth out the wing leading edge, if you think it has over thinned the leading edge, if you think it has you may need a thin plastic card shim.   

Looking at the before and after pics,  I don't if it's that noticeable, but thought it was an easy mod. 

I had noticed it an age ago when I started another 'practice' cross kit exercise using the Airfix XIX and a Heller XVI to make a Xi and low back XIV....., 

 

Does that help?  

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Tidy work on the serial Troy :goodjob:

 

On 5/18/2020 at 4:23 PM, Troy Smith said:

Damn. That means one of my two is wrong then :( Although I used the kit canopy, which looks to have been made from the base of jam jars, to hide the weeks of work I did adding detail to both cockpits anyway so doubt anyone will ever know :shrug:

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1 hour ago, Col. said:

Tidy work on the serial Troy :goodjob:

Thanks, I was rather pleased myself....  and I only ruined two letters  in the process. 

1 hour ago, Col. said:

Damn. That means one of my two is wrong then :( Although I used the kit canopy, which looks to have been made from the base of jam jars, to hide the weeks of work I did adding detail to both cockpits anyway so doubt anyone will ever know :shrug:

Well, I'm not totally sure, I've not gone on a major search (as we know, that research rabbit hole can go a long way) .... and one thing I have learned is to test fit a canopy and see what's visible... 

which  is why I just tried to add a visible item or two, as i the straps and camera box, for someone having a close peer. 

 

Still you know it's there :) 

 

1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

that doesn't sound too onerous.

I think it took, 15-20 mins tops, plus some making good later as I was a bit careless.

One thing I have noticed is a tendency to moan about problems/inaccuracies, without seeing how fixable they are, let alone seeing if the fix is, erm, some basic modelling skill

I've done more of this in 1/48th,  where people seem to either give up, or expect an aftermarket fix....

(specifically the problems of the Special Hobby Spitfires/Seafires,  The Academy XIV, the Airfix XII and the old tool Tamiya Mk.i/V....  and I've seen a fair amount of tosh about these on the net... like everything I suppose..)

 

As for the build, after letting the roundel set for a bit,  I dug out the other set of HB Indian roundels (the started kit came with two decal sheets)  and overlaid them.

The fuselage and uppers look a lot better, but I can still see the line on the lower wing.... I might try a bit of hand painting with some white.... or just not worry...it's only the underside ;) 

 

Thanks for the interest and positive comments.   

 

cheers

T

 

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Hi Troy, 

Love the Xtracrylic PRU blue, whatever you do - DON’T dull it with Gunze Flat coat. It is crazy - literally, it crazed the underside of my Avro 684, for which I chose the same paint.

 

love the Indian roundels and I have some more if you need them.

 

This weekend is a Britmodeller blitz build and hopefully still time to enter.

 

Thursday 28th May is our IPMS virtual club night. As you don’t do Facebook send me pictures of the completed kit and I will put it on the virtual table for our open competition 😊😊

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52 minutes ago, Adrian Hills said:

Love the Xtracrylic PRU blue, whatever you do - DON’T dull it with Gunze Flat coat. It is crazy - literally, it crazed the underside of my Avro 684, for which I chose the same paint.

I wasn't,  I only have Windsor and Newton Galleria matt and Xtracrylix matt,  no Gunze, I suspect the reason for this is that it is the other type of acrylic, the 'hot' stuff,(like Tamiya, I suspect this can be thinned also with cellulose thinner)   and it's reacted with Xtracrylix, that I presume is the latex type,  I have a mix of some Vallejo that I left in a little tub,  and it mostly dried out, and when I pulled it of the tub, it was, and still is like rubber.   Folks have talked about  Vallejo turning to jelly with a 'hot' thinner like Mr Levelling thinner IIRC.

The Xtracrylix feels similar with a thickish lump feeling rubbery (I just washed out my palette).   

I have managed to get the stuff to brush and level, and with 4 coats, it's very robust finish, and I'm pretty amazed at how smooth it now is...

52 minutes ago, Adrian Hills said:

love the Indian roundels and I have some more if you need them.

well, I nabbed more out of the Seahawk,  but maybe, depending on what I do with the Seahawk....  I have ended up with quite a few of those as well for some reason....

 

I did over paint the white on the underwing roundels this afternoon as well,  which finally solved the problem with bleed through. 

 

1 hour ago, Adrian Hills said:

This weekend is a Britmodeller blitz build and hopefully still time to enter.

Now you know I don't like being rushed....

1 hour ago, Adrian Hills said:

Thursday 28th May is our IPMS virtual club night. As you don’t do Facebook send me pictures of the completed kit and I will put it on the virtual table for our open competition

IF it's completed by then, pics can be got  off my Flickr  though,....  right, bet make some dinner....

 

cheers

T

 

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